Adult children living overseas

[Ozzieabroad]

Replied to a similar post but it was quite old and wasn’t on this specific board, so posting again here - interested if others have similar thoughts or experiences.

This can be an extremely difficult situation, with a type of background grieving which never fully dissipates, no matter how full and busy and fulfilling and happy your own life and career might be. Know of many empty-nesters in this situation.

it’s the loss of the future we all probably imagined - perhaps without even being consciously aware of it - that we might have with our adult children and possible grandchildren, as we head towards retirement.

it auddenly becomes crystal clear when the empty nest begins and menopause sets in, that we are now in theory superfluous to society, so to feel abandoned by one’s children, when we have spent 20 years of our lives doing everything for them, just makes it much worse - it’s almost like waking up from a long 20-year dream where our entire identity was tied up with being a parent and somehow we subconsciously thought (or acted as if) we would be forever parents of young children - we will pay lip service to the obvious fact that they will grow up and leave home, but we don’t really believe it until it happens. It almost seems there’s some sort of hormonal effect, for both men and women, that puts us in this 20-year daze while raising children - probably this has had evolutionary advantages.

it doesn’t help to be told to just be happy for your children and do lots of fun things with your own life, and particularly not make them feel guilty - one feels one can never really express one’s true feelings any more.

Of course we can be happy with our own lives, but it’s not the same as people who’ve never had children (which is probably why that demographic overall is happier!) - when you actually have had children, and particularly when you have grandchildren, you feel you should be/want to be part of their everyday lives in real life.

This strong drive to be part of our grandchildren’s lives is probably also evolutionary in origin - after all, it’s thought that the reason humans live so long beyond their reproductive years, is because of the strong evolutionary advantages provided by our involvement with our grandchildren.

Now this strong drive is being thwarted by modern lifestyles involving adult children moving across the world permanently.

In ancient history, yes, humans were constantly migrating huge distances, but it was the whole tribe that migrated together, the stronger and younger tribe members helping the elders and toddlers to move with them.

To have younger people say technology fixes all of the problems of distance is not correct - it’s just not the same as actual day to day presence and being able to attend any social or sporting events at a moments notice, have spontaneous family meals, and even just dropping in.

it’s particularly difficult when dealing with defensive DILs, who are very possessive of your son and want them to virtually become a different person and leave behind their family and culture completely, and who would regard the slightest comment about their own country not being the best at absolutely everything, as an unforgivable attack.

When it gets so extreme (and your son has also become so defensive) that you can’t even talk about anything that happens in your own country or that shows your own culture in a favourable light, and that all that sort of news is completely ignored as if it’s a complete no-no - then it’s really shocking.

To have the feeling that your DIL (or SIL, as in one case I know) wouldn’t have the slightest care in the world - or would even be happy - if their in-laws suddenly died and they and their children would never have to see them again - that’s a terrible feeling.

Then of course there’s the huge expense of travel and accomodation to see them and be near them for any length of time - and the dread of a future where that travel won’t be possible due to financial or health reasons.

Even worse when the other parents-in-law live near your expat child, have a house with everything and unlimited financial resources, pay for (and require attendance at) frequent family holidays - so it’s impossible to compete with that, not only from a distance but also with the huge expense of travel.

There’s the feeling that the in-laws are actually buying your adult child - and that’s mixed with a bit of anger that your child is allowing themselves to be bought, and with an inability to hint at such a feeling because it will be interpreted as churlish.

Our adult children, of course, are in that 20-year dream state of being parents, that they think will never end, and they can’t even imagine that they themselves will be empty nesters and their own children might do the same thing to them as they have done to their own parents. They don’t think it could happen to them! So they’re not even understanding that the way their children see them treating their own parents, is exactly what they are modelling for their own children to behave as adults.

And that hasn't even touched the tip of the iceberg - because it’s other family members who are missing out as well - adult children are already quite disengaged from our parents, their elderly grandparents (who have been so wonderful to them when they were children), even when living nearby - this is SO much worse when they are living overseas, and incredibly unfair on your elderly parents who deserve so much better at such a late stage in life.

My parents moved abroad three years ago.I miss them so much.

OP, I just want to let you know that you're heard and seen on here. All your feelings are valid.
I can see you're heartbroken. Do you have a partner to find solace in?
I haven't seen my mom and dad in over a decade as they live in another country and I'm unable to travel (can't proof my citizenship even though I was born here - parents failed to file papers when they lived here and they've never been able to get visas to return here), and although they think I'm getting on fine, my heart yearns to see them again, to do all the little things you mention.
I agree that who your child marries counts as my siblings can travel but have never been to visit our parents and their partners seem glad to have them to themselves.
I really think what goes around comes around, their kids may do the same to them.

It’s unfortunate and I feel for you. It does tend to be adult sons who detach from their families when they create their own families, more so than adult daughters do anyway. I wonder why this is?

i see it in work all the time. Either the sons are weirdly attached to their elderly mothers and cling to them. Often still living with their mothers in their 50s or they go the other way and are indifferent unless their wives make the effort.

It makes no difference if the parents were wonderful or terrible. The sons remain indifferent. Who knows?

Anyway, sorry your going through bad times OP x

Wow. Heaven help the people who come onto this forum looking for understanding and support, but Thankyou to those who provide it.

it’s amazing that people can claim not to think that all parents are wrong and all adult children are right, but go ahead and condemn a parent anyway, with no real knowledge of the situation.

As for the “buying” bit - it’s not about just one big holiday, it’s about the in-laws providing a house near to them, paying for and controlling everything that is done to that house, and paying for both their adult children and their families to attend multiple compulsory family events and holidays at their many holiday homes, dominating the annual calendar all year every year.

it’s interesting how many people claim their own reactions to a given situation would be perfect.

Thank heavens for never having been on “support” forums before. Certainly never will again.

Thankyou again to those who understand the complexity of situations and the fact that no issue is black and white - feelings are feelings, there’s no wrong or right to them.

I empathise with other parents in similar situations, I know that feelings are complex and the occasional feelings of sadness are only a tiny part of who they are, I don’t think the worst of them or think they’ve been bad parents, I don’t assume that they don’t have excellent careers and spouses and friendships, and I believe them when they say they’ve never expressed any negativity towards their adult child or in-laws.

i also believe the adult children who have suffered genuinely toxic situations with their parents or in-laws.

I feel so sorry for you 💐 that's so incredibly tough. Mine are little so can't offer words of advice but absolutely sympathise.

I'm in the UK and don't live near my parents and often think how unfair that it on them that we're far away. My in-laws see us more and tbh finances play their part in that. To put it bluntly, if my parents were richer/had a house we could visit them in, we'd see them more. It's a weird irony that we raise our kids to pass exams and cultivate ambition, all in the knowledge that means they'll leave us.

You sound very betrayed and counselling might help. I know you won't believe me but your DIL isn't as bad as you make out. She doesn't want you dead. This sounds like catastrophic thinking - I do it too and CBT really helps. It sounds like the relationship is strained and you need to start again. When you're on stronger terms I'd raise the issue of visits and how finances don't allow you to see them as much as you'd like. Maybe you can come to a better arrangement.

Not saying for a minute you should move to be nearer to them but I'm interested if that's an option for you at all?

But what about those who are married to someone not from the same country?

Dh and I spent 10 years on his side of the world (not his home country because he couldn't find work there) and are now in my home country.

One of us is always going to be away from our family. Who gets to decide who it is?

Thankyou Reallyd… for your very kind message. Especially from one who has young children rather than adult children! Am unwell at the moment which doesn’t help - yes, catastrophising a bit, and certainly you’re right about DIL, I do believe you! My own MIL was a difficult personality who had fallen out with many family members (including her own son!) but I never for a moment wanted her to disappear from our lives, I knew how much she loved her son and wanted him to be happy, and was very sad when she passed away.

Have never ever had a cross word with DIL, BTW. The feelings I expressed are only a tiny part of who I am, and nothing to do with the overt relationship my spouse and I have with our son and DIL.

"As for the “buying” bit - it’s not about just one big holiday, it’s about the in-laws providing a house near to them, paying for and controlling everything that is done to that house, and paying for both their adult children and their families to attend multiple compulsory family events and holidays at their many holiday homes, dominating the annual calendar all year every year."

They're doing it because they can. You're not doing it because you can't. You cannot be in a competition with them because they have the cash to spend on their daughter and her family. This comment reeks tremendously of jealousy. In fact, you should be happy they're making the effort to keep your son and his family happy and supported.

There's a fair chance your parents do feel all these things, just because they don't tell you doesn't mean they don't feel them. I moved away not by choice (long story) my Mum has never made me feel bad about it, I've never picked up any "vibes" from her. But I know via a relative that she has struggled.
I can't visit as often as I'd like, because of finances, which breaks my heart. My Dad is now too elderly to travel.
I can't comprehend any child choosing not to visit their parents , if there are no barriers or bad relationships preventing this, it just seems needlessly cruel. I hope my kids don't do this to me.

Pinkpretty… it’s so difficult to navigate cross-cultural families - someone always misses out to some extent, and financially it can be so hard. It’s becoming so common now, and there have been some excellent suggestions.

Evolutionarily, humans aren't biologically wired for this, as applies to many aspects of the lives we now lead.

Future pandemics or wars, the end of oil, sky-high airfares, even inflation in electricity prices and the cost of running servers to maintain the internet, may well affect our ability to use technology and flights and hotels or Airbnbs, to try to maintain those family ties as best we can.

You are writing about your own, very specific situation as though it were universal.

This is why sympathy and understanding for how YOU are feeling because YOUR son has moved abroad/is moving abroad and YOU have a difficult relationship with your DIL isn't. (Universal)

The language you use is critical, passive-aggressive and self-centred.

I'm both the daughter and the mother btw.

Moved abroad to follow my dreams. I'm an only child as well. Not once did my mother try and heap the guilt onto me. We had a wonderful relationship based on love, freedom, trust and mutual respect before I went and that continued to the day she died. She wanted the best for me, and the best for me was letting me fly.

I have no doubt that she would have preferred me living round the corner. What mother wouldn't? But at the cost of clipping their wings and guilt-tripping them? That's going to work.

I am now the mother. My daughter (also an only child) is at university in a different country. She won't be back here. Would I have preferred her to fall in love with someone from school and live down the road? You bet. Would I ever have tried to manipulate her into not following her dreams? Not a chance.

You reap what you sow in this world. I saw my mother a million times more in the 25 years I was abroad before she died than my cousin whose mother lived 3 streets away from him saw her. Because my relationship was good, his was bad.

You have a poor relationship with your son. You have a poor relationship with your daughter in law.

Talk about that, and why, and you'll find your answers. They'll be fuck all to do with them living abroad if you scratch the surface.

And don't ever dare assume we all have shit relationships because we were "allowed" to go abroad.

My DS is only 10, but as someone who spent 30 years living in various places outside my home country, I would be surprised and disappointed if he restricted himself to living in the country his dad and I live in in adulthood. The world is a big place, and I imagine he’ll take advantage of that.

I get you, it is hard. My second son has been living abroad for 20 years. He married out there and I went to their wedding. It was so hard to leave as at that point I had no idea when I would see him again. This was life before Skype and facetime. Many tears were wept. We have always since he left have had weekly phone calls to catch up.
For the past 10 years or so we Skype once a week. It's not just younger people using technology --- I am in my 60's. We WhatsApp regularly, which is also a good way of exchanging photos.

I now have two young grandchildren and feel we have a good relationship despite the distance. They know who I an and we chat on Skype. Lockdowns were hard as my youngest grandchild was born and I had a flight booked to travel, but this was cancelled. I didn't get to see them until this year.

I understand the cost of visits. In the past few years I have been lucky in that my son and extended family help me with the cost of flights, and obviously I can stay with my son and his family so there is no added cost there.

Pre pandemic we would alternate visits, one year they would come here, another year I would go there.

My son is incredibly happy and would never come back to the UK, and at the end of the day that is all you want for your child. Would I prefer them to live here, of course I would, but that isn't going to happen, so I make the most of the time with them that I can.

I am lucky in that I get on very well with my DIL, and that must be difficult if you don't get on as that problem as that as more pressure.

@Suemademedoit
You make such a good point.

It's beyond me children who make no time for their parents (especially mums) when they can.
We need to be careful not to raise kids to be selfish, self-centred and too individualistic to the point that they forget their roots. Gosh!
If you come from where I come from where mothers like mine suffered abuse from marriage and society just to protect their kids; where mothers sell the last clothes off their back just to send their kids to a better school; where society disadvantages women once they age and particularly become mothers; where mums stay up all night tutoring you because there's no such thing as access to good education or private tutoring; where it is the voice of your mum praying for you that is the alarm that wakes you up every morning; where families pool together their life savings to go abroad and get a better life (mine did to allow me return to the UK as a young adult); I can go on and on... you will value mums much more!

Except OP has said she hasn't been a good mother, she deserves for her feelings to be acknowledged at the very least.

This is really interesting, Last year, we left the UK to move the Channel Islands and we have no family support here. DH and I feel quite... disappointed in our families... neither his parents work and we (foolishly) expected more from them. DH parents seem happy to see their grandchildren and their only son just once a year... IMO it's very much their loss.

Theres something about the selfish thing that doesn’t sit right with me. Selfish is when someone only cares about their own happiness or gain. I think I’d like DD to come see me because it makes her happy to and that seeing me contributes to her happiness. If she didn’t come I wouldn’t consider it selfish because that would imply that I know she doesn’t want to see me but I think should do it regardless of how she feels. If that makes sense, but I would feel extremely sad that she doesn’t miss me.

I’m an expat, I think I like the idea of DD travelling, working and living where she pleases. I would never want her to curtail her own hopes dreams and ambitions to keep me happy.

It must be hard to have your son so far from you, his in-laws probably just have an extremely busy social life and if you are being completely honest with yourself you know that it’s not mandatory that he attends everything, he just wants to. It’s great that your son has been afforded so much help from his in-laws (I would be delighted if DD’s in-laws were chucking buckets of cash at her)but yes I can understand your feelings of being sidelined.

Your core problem is that you son can’t be arsed to include you more in his life. Ultimately whatever his wife does or in-laws do isn’t relevant. What your son does is.

Just wanted to say - my Dad left his country and barely saw his family again, although they kept in touch with occasional phone calls and a visit every 10 years or so. He’s very elderly now and I drive a few hours to see him every week or so to help with his care. We didn’t see much of the other GP either so the idea that we follow our parents’ behaviour doesn’t hold true.

It is sad, however that you feel such loss and jealousy of the other side of the family. I think many would feel the same way. Maybe however it is worth being happy that they have such close family abroad? At least they’re not lonely, they have support and the close family relationships that you want for your GC are being modelled?

In any case, as you know, there nothing much to do except suck it up. I wish there was an easier answer.

I think if you move away you are abandoning your parents. Through the pandemic I was working, looking after my parents, in-laws and five other family members whose children are abroad. My aunt and uncle are in their 80’s and both their children are abroad. I had to check on them everyday. I love them and I had no problem with that. Even now it’s me who takes them to hospital appointments and gets shopping for them a few times a month.
Their children have left and take very little responsibility. Their daughter organises the odd food delivery and calls every week. She has visited but for two weeks once a year. I know that they are now my responsibility.
But they’re also wonderful and I love spending time with them. When they’re no longer here will their children be sorry they spent no time with them? Or won’t they care? I can’t imagine abandoning my family.
After the pandemic their son sent me a box of chocolates to thank me for looking after them. I thought that was hilarious. Abandon your parents, expect someone else to take care of them forever but it’s ok I’ll send them some strawberry creams ffs.

Op I’m sorry it’s crap! Your son is weak or flattered enough to be manipulated. Why does your dil think her parents deserve all this attention and not you?!
Have a good wallow and rage but then find other things or get some therapy. It’s sad and crap and I’m very sorry.

I have one child who doesn’t live far away, but we still don’t see them. Since they got a partner, and moved in together very quickly, we’ve been spectacularly dropped. I’ve never been invited to their home, and I would never push in.
Its the feeling of being dropped after 20 + years. I know we are meant to be glad we’ve brought up independent adults, but it feels quite selfish.

🤯

Am I reading this right? You moved and you're disappointed people aren't visiting YOU??

If so, there's a level of entitlement that knows no bounds.

Nobody has any obligation to stay near their family - this is equally the case if elderly parents move to another country. The OP (understandably) only sees one side of the issue, but it seems rather harsh to imply that the son and DIL are "doing" this to his parents - maybe they are just living their lives as best they can?
Families can have very unreasonable expectations of each other. Wouldn't it be nice if people just accepted everyone's personal choices? Live and let live would be a good idea.

Your experience isn't universal for adult children moving overseas, but I'm very sorry it is like this for you. I'm an adult child who moved overseas but I visit as often as I can afford to (took the kids over for the whole summer this year so they could get plenty of time with their grandparents) and my parents visit as often as they can. I do think it would be harder for them if I was an only child, and if I was then I would be worried about what to do when they get older and need care, but luckily they have more children and plenty of grandchildren in the same country (though none close enough to just pop in)

OP, I've read your further posts and feel very sorry about your obvious disappointment and sadness but we can only change the things we can. As pp suggested, CBT will help you to understand the situation and your reaction to it.

What resolution do you want to happen?
Are your filial expectations realistic or burdensome?
Can you view your relationship with DC separate from his relationship with his ils?
Can you utilise technology to improve your relationship?

For starters, your confidence and self worth. Why do you think menopausal women are superfluous to society? Even if 99% of people believe that (which they don't) you don't have to believe it applies to you. I certainly don't believe that I'm superfluous to society and I don't think that every menopausal woman I meet is worthless. I have older friends who go abroad to do church charity work; take part in bowling, group runs, golf, do the accounts for social groups etc . They lead fulfilling lives, independent of any relationship with their adult DC. Empty nest syndrome isn't an inevitability and strategies to address it need to be in place, if this is happening.

WhatsApp video calls use your wi-fi, so don't cost anything. In my family, we use it to share what we're doing and we follow each on Twitter, Instagram etc My DD has even taken me shopping during sales with her via video and I show them what I'm up to as well. We had a hilarious time laughing over the typical old fogies "is it still recording?" out takes of a video I was making with friends, to celebrate the significant birthday of a mutual friend who had moved abroad.

I agree that finances can have repercussions on the closeness of the relationship when DC move abroad. Can DS finance an annual visit?

In my main friendship group, our mantra is "never move to be near your children as they could move again". We were all in an industry where expat working is the norm and families had lived in several countries. Many DC have now moved abroad for work and then settled there.

My 2 cents is that yours could be both a mental health (depressive reaction?) and relationship problem because if your DS wanted it to be closer he would make it happen regardless of his il's mega wealth. Does he know that you want him to look after you in your old age?

My relationship with DC hasn't changed because they both live abroad; they still ask my advice on things and they know that I don't want them caring for me later on. I plan to move into a care home, have the finances for it and already arranged power of attorney. My sil however, (who several years on, now complains about the difficulties) has taken on the care of her DM because she says that is what she wants her own DD to do for her. I won't put that burden on my DC, but to each, his own.

Ultimately, you may need to change you.

@Ozzieabroad ah. MN isn’t a support forum, OP. It’s a place for the (often very frank) exchange of views and opinions. Sometimes, an OP can receive unanimous support, but not often.

@ByTheGrace I’m sorry your Mum felt this way, and what a woman keeping her feelings from you. As I said, and I think I have the better knowledge given she’s my mum, this does not go for my parents. They were me 50 years ago and yes they modelled for me what they saw from their parents (and my DH and I are now doing the same for our D.C.).

This is, genuinely, one of the reasons why I had three DC. Even if one of them moves abroad, surely it's unlikely that all three of them will?!

I feel for you OP. My BIL has lived in Asia for nearly 30 years (he's in his 50s). My PILs used to go out and visit him, but they're too old to make the trip now (both in their 80s and not in good health) and he very rarely comes back to the UK. He's not great at phoning either, so it's literally just the odd text. I know this is a real source of sadness for them