Christmas & adult daughter - not sure what to do

[newsparklylife]

This is going to be long (so that I don't drip feed), so you may want a cup of tea... or wine (I know I do right now!).

DD is 20 and away at uni. I am single parent to DS 14 and in a relationship to a truly lovely guy (9 months so far!) he doesn't live with us but is here most of the time and will be moving in shortly. He will be spending xmas with us.

DH left in October 2015 after a 20+ year of abuse (psychological, emotional you name it he did it all but hitting us). DD hated him, wouldn't speak to him, she went to uni in London which is a long way away from us to get away from him.

Over the last year DD has changed, she has had mental health issues and become very nasty towards me. She blames me for leaving her father, she blames me for not leaving her father, she blames me for leaving the family home (could not afford to stay there it has now been sold), we now live in a 2 bed bungalow, perfect for DS and I but obviously she doesn't have a bedroom to herself. She comes home from uni for about in total 6 weeks a year (if that, I'm possibly being over generous). In the summer when she came home she spent a lot of time with her father (who before she refused to speak to and told me he scared her). She said she has forgiven him (which is great if she has but am confused how she has gone from having a panic attack when his name is mentioned to living in his flat with him!).

So... she's coming home next week for xmas. Said this morning will your DP be there? I want it just to be you me and DS and the dogs. I said yes he will be 'what for xmas eve and day' yes he will be 'what? xmas day early morning' yes he will be.

She doesn't want to have to share a small house (dig at me for giving up family home) with a man (dig at me being in a relationship she wants me single). Now... DS LOVES DP, he has turned our life around and shown us there are good men out there. When I collect DS from school first words are 'is DP at home'. It is a serious relationship and we hopefully have a future together.

DD making me feel very guilty, wants to spend time with me alone - already said we will do what she wants together, current arrangements are going out for coffee and a church service she has requested just her and I go to. We are also going to midnight mass just her, myself and DS. Have said we will do what else she wants to but she hasn't made suggestions yet.

Xmas day the entire family will be here so it is not just us and DP, there will be 11 of us altogether (all my family not his).

She is making me feel guilty. I'm at the point now of saying this is what is happening, you are an adult, you can deal with it or not. Your call. My mum who has just taken a phone call with a rather upset me has said it is about time I looked out for myself for once as have done everything for everyone else for ever. She loves DP and has seen how he has transformed our lives and she feels DD being a little manipulative.

DD shares a room with DS when she is here, we have just replaced DS bed with a futon high bed so DD can have as proper a bed that I can do (after she refused to sleep on the sofa bed I bought her as uncomfortable). I understand it's not ideal her not having her own room but I'm self employed on a very low income and could not afford the additional £150 a month it would cost to rent a 3 bed for her to stay in it for such a short period of time.

I would love your opinions on this please (if you've made it this far!). Thank you xx

So by your timeline, your children have grown up enmeshed in and surrounded by abuse. Their father is still fucking them around and emotionally blackmailing them. She escaped to uni in a far city to get away. When the living situation changed, she no longer had her own space in this very damaged family dynamic.

I understand that you cannot afford a three bedroom house and feel you deserve a good relationship with a kind man. I have no issue with those. I do think that you need to let her feel some space is her own, even if it means sacrificing the conservatory and putting a proper bed in it. This is not going to be forever but she seems very damaged (understandably) and vulnerable and for the time being, sacrifices need to be made.

I find the way you refer to yourself and the board you posted on very interesting. It reads as though now she is an adult in the eyes of the law and society, she is no longer your child. Surely you are a single parent to both of them not just your son? It does seem as though you want to paper over the huge cracks and set yourself up with your son and new marvellous partner who is already important to your son. I think this is not uncommon but you are deluding yourself. Your children where exposed to abuse throughout their childhood, it is no surprise that they are beginning to act out and show dysfunction. I should imagine that despite your new partner, at some point you will see it in your son.

Dont refer to your daughter as being the same as her father - as having the same traits as though it is a failing in her. She isn't choosing to be this screwed up, she has no home base, she is in uni which can be a trial in itself and is trying to negotiate a relationship with her arse of a father, her new super dad who her mum is fixated on, her mum who seems to be sidelining her from this cosy new family, and her brother who she may feel is being disloyal. She needs help. My guess is she will get more vulnerable and deeper into misery and bad habits. What help you can access and she will accept is something you need to find out. But dont just concentrate on yourself now feeling you deserve it and have done your parenting. This young woman desperately needs her mum and it seems you would rather she just go back to London and write her off as a bleating victim who you did your best for and now no longer have to look after given to her age, regardless of her state of mind.

I'm not saying it is easy or pleasant or that it will be easy to find help. It won't. But dont kid yourself that it is fine to cut her loose as she is an adult. She sounds very damaged and you need to step up and stop focusing on the time and emotion you spend placating your exDH. That is irrelevant to this situation.

often think

not projecting. Reading between the lines like everyone else.

Yes Pug, I agree.

I would have felt very very rejected if i went to uni and my mum moved somewhere that had no room for me. Its like saying 'dont come back'.

Can you come to some sort of compromise about how much of Christmas your DP is there for?

I've been in your daughter's situation - came back from Uni for Christmas to find I was spending it all with my mum's DP (now stepdad who I have a great relationship with), and it really hurt. Even though I didn't intend to move back, there was something about being able to go home and spend time with my mum that was really special. I still haven't told her how I really felt about it because I know it would upset her.

She's moved away when your split with her dad was really recent (however right it sounds like you were to split), and may have expected there to have been a time of things being a bit calmer for you to all get used to before things changed again. Now you and her brother seem to be becoming a new family with someone she's barely spent any time with because she hasn't been there, she's probably feeling pretty vulnerable about that. So maybe make it really clear that you want to spend time with her without your DP and have the morning without him and him there for dinner or something like that.

Although I appreciate you've said theres not much you can do about the room.

On the DP point ... if you've only been together 9 months then she presumably hasn't spent much time with him. Going from a house with just your family members in it, to a house where a male stranger ( to her not you) is around all the time can make young women feel very uncomfortable. My Dsis did the same thing .. she felt like she couldn't be herself, had to make sure every door was shut when she's getting changed ( hard when she's staying in a conservatory) and making sure she locks the bathroom every time she's in it. Im not saying its scary ... it just feels like suddenly you cant be comfortable or be yourself in your own home.

And just to add, I was really happy for my mum being in her relationship, but it really wouldn't have seemed like that to her at the time! So don't think she dislikes your DP, it's more about what this means on her relationship with you.

The age at when you are deemed to be an 'adult' should be raised to 30.

The so called young adults of today, according to MNer's, are being pushed to hard to grow up.

You’ve done nothing wrong OP. My room was gone the day I moved out! People on MN seem to Baby their kids so much. She’s at uni, she has a job and a partner and her own place. And yes the needs of the child you have living at home with you come before hers (In most cases).

I agree that young adults should have the ability to stand on their own feet, just like the OP’s daughter is as she has a house and a job. This doesn’t change the fact that she has clearly grown up in a difficult home situation and it now probably feels to her that she’s being pushed out by not having a room and not having a say in Christmas Day. As she’s been away from home the OP’s partner will be a stranger so she may feel she cannot fully relax and if her home life has been tough that might be exactly what she needs.

@KuroiNamida
This isn't about giving her a bedroom. She can't afford three bedrooms, that is life. However it is about appreciating she has been surrounded by abuse all her life and realising she is beginning to show signs of dysfunction and damage. To not give her some space she feels is hers, in a home she needs to feel welcome in, is remiss and selfish at this point. She very well may fall apart. Do you not see the signs? Or is it easier to write her off as being like her father.

But go ahead, say you need to think about yourself for a change, and poor hard done by you, pretend your family set up is fine and move the new man in and pretend you are all a lovely family. The fact that your kids have been normalised to abuse and emotional blackmail and are acting out can just be ignored because one is an 'adult' who needs to pull herself together and your son who is overly dependent on this man he and you barely know, well that's fine and not a sign of trouble ahead. No, it is just a sign of how great your boyfriend is according to you.

Have you had any family therapy? Do you have a social worker or have any other agencies involved?

Just a couple of things the reference to being a single parent to a 14 year old and not DD should have been 'am single parenting a 14 year old DS at Home with DD at uni'

'She wasn't prioritising her children by staying with a man who abused then'....... oh my is all I have to say to that. If only it was so black and white......

Thank you for your opinions. That one comment above regarding staying with the abuse I think has finished me for today!

newsparkly I didn't mean to upset you, but for your children's sake you could see more clearly. Time on your own might be the best way of doing that, but that's clearly not going to happen. You are rather black and white about your daughter and the new partner - it's not likely to be the case in reality, as you imply.
Put yourself in your daughter's position, as others have on this thread. It sounds like she still needs you.

Yanbu. Yes, it's not ideal that she doesn't have her own room, but you say she is an adult and has her own place in London and your house is her home too. I don't think you can do more than you are, you are entitled to have a relationship and your own life. Hope it resolved itself so everyone is happy. Glad your DS has a great relationship with DS.

Seems like you're happier without her. She can see that too.

@newsparklylife

No, dont leave and refuse to address the issue just because of one remark you dont like. For heavens sake stop feeling so much self pity and look at the problem. You have had one blunt comment and questions thrown at you that is tarnishing your new shiny family ideal. You cant deny the past, i wonder if much of this attempt to paper over issues is due to you feeling guilty and responsible?

I think you are trying to pretend the past 20 years didn't;t happen and want us all to OK that, to say forget the problems, just think about yourself now. But you cant becuase you have one agitated child, and one who is overly dependent on your new partner. Look at the problems and address them. Managed right you can still have your new relationship and healthy kids but it will take work, honestly and looking at the real issues not running away or pretending they don't exist.

I speak from experience of your past.

You let your DD be abused for years and now you just expect her to deal with being pushed out for mr perfect and your DS.

My bedroom was repurposed into something else very soon after I moved out at 18. There's no guarantee that you'll have a bedroom at your parent's house after you've left. It's not a right even if your parents are together.

I think you're doing the best you can. She's doing the best she can too with lots to make sense of. I have sympathy for her, she sounds like she needs a bit of looking after and security as she forges her way as a (still quite young) adult. Perhaps find a way for you and she to have some private time without new partner but otherwise YANBU

I feel sorry for your DD.

I also think you’ve allowed your vulnerable DS to get far to emotionally attached to a man you’ve known for only 9 mth

And your user name speaks volumes - it’s all about you and your new life.

OP, you are not being unreasonable. You are doing your best under the circumstances. You have a right to move on and make the best life you can for you and the child still living at home with you, and making sure DD has a place to sleep when she visits. She doesn't live there any more, but you do. And you have to live within your means.

Hopefully, she'll eventually see reason. It sounds like she needs some kind of counselling after growing up with such an abusive father. Perhaps through her university? It does sound like she's acquired some of his controlling, self centred traits that bullies possess...

It does sound like she's acquired some of his controlling, self centred traits that bullies possess...

How does that work then? Is it genetic or something?

Can see both sides but I feel a bit more for your daughter as 9 months is not a long time especially to have him there for Christmas Day. Can you not compromise and see him Christmas eve and Boxing Day?

It does feel a bit like she has been pushed out and I can imagine to a 20 year old it may feel like you are choosing a man over her.

If your boyfriend is moving in surely he will be contributing to the rent and you may then be able to afford a 3 bed?

It's a difficult situation as of course you deserve to be happy and to move on with your life. I'm assuming your daughter doesn't know him that well either which probably doesn't help.

* It does sound like she's acquired some of his controlling, self centred traits that bullies possess...*

More likely she massively struggles with emotional regulation because she grew up in an abusive environment and wasn't modelled dealing with emotions in a good way and now her brain is wired to constantly be on alert and feel threatened. She is the victim here, not the aggressor.

I completely understand how difficult it is for an adult to leave an abusive relationship, but it is impossible for a child, and however much support or counselling they have it is likely that they will never completely recover from the effects as it has become wired into their bodies as they grow and develop. However, with the right support your DD can deal with it and live a happy life. I think you might need some professional support too to work this through with your DD and DS and to work out where your DP fits in.

I divorced and after I had been seeing a partner for a year, he joined us for Christmas day lunch after we had opened presents and visited family. He didn't join in the whole thing and it worked out fine.

As it happened he turned out to be a very possessive and angry little man but I didn't start to see that until a year had passed. I would be very wary of moving in a new man too soon but I did have a bad experience.

I can see where your daughter is coming from especially as she probably doesn't feel like she can come 'home' as such any more.

I know they are technically adults but anyone with 18-22 year olds knows full well they are still child-adults with all the stress and angst of entering the adult world. The need for unconditional love and support doesn’t stop on their 18th birthday.
It feels like she has turned to her father because she feels like a cuckoo partner has pushed her from your nest. That might well not be the reality but it’s her emotional reaction. She’s feeling unloved and rejected in favour of a man you’ve been with a relatively short time and who is a stranger to her.
You need to provide the reassurance that she is central to your life still. You’ll need to do it more for her because her father will be undermining you. Regardless that she’s only home for six weeks, it is her home. Most of her university friends will be welcomed back to their family homes as a prodigal child and there will be much rejoicing at their return to the nest. We arranged a meal out yesterday and filled the fridge with innocent smoothies and avocado because our youngest was home. Her bed as made with fresh linen, there was her hot water bottle filled and her favourite (too expensive for student) shampoo and conditioner in her bathroom. She knew we were delighted at her return. Well do likewise tomorrow when others return. They need the security of knowing they still fit in to help them branch out into the adult world.
The cannabis smoking would be a concern and sign of not coping terribly well.
It might not be the smoothest Christmas but you need to give her the reassurance she craves at the same time as upholding reasonable behaviour towards you, her sister and courtesy toward your partner. The idea of one to one time with her is lovely as long as you can keep from being cross with her. She really just wants her mother to be as she always has.