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when your baby is crying but you've covered everything...

108 replies

mogwai · 28/07/2005 09:33

A question about letting your baby cry....sorry, long post

my dd is just coming up to 4 weeks old. We've been loosely using the "Baby Whisperer" techniques, ie Eat, Activity, Sleep. She's a good feeder, takes 4oz every three hours (formula)

It works well all day, though when we go on a trip out, she tends to sleep throughout, so sometimes gets more sleep during the day than she probably needs.

She has no problem being in her moses basket during the night. Strangely, so won't nap in it during the day. She doesn't seem to want the activity after night feeds. We dream feed her about 11pm and we go to her as soon as she stirs during the night (about 3am). She tends to feed very well and go straight back to sleep. We are up for about 30 mins on average.

We have a bit of a problem getting her down in the evening however. Our routine is generally food, activity, bath every other night, cuddle, bedtime. We put her down sometime around 7pm. She simply cries and cries when we put her down for this particular sleep. We know she's fed, clean, cuddled, not too warm or hot. She doesn't want the dummy, doesn't want more cuddles, will take more bottle (which we give as a last resort - she's putting on good amounts of weight) but immediately falls asleep on it. We've tried a musical mobile, we've tried a bit of lavender oil on a comforter at the foot of her basket.We've tried winding her more, but wind doesn't seem to be the problem (has wind at other times - obvious tummy discomfort - we are using infacol and colief). She looks knackered but can't be placated. I really don't think it's colic. DH is a doctor, he agrees.

We have concluded that she wants to go to sleep but doesn't know how to. We don't want to get into rocking her to sleep (and anyway, I tried it, it doesn't stop her on-off crying). We have started coming downstairs and sitting down, with the monitor on. The first night she cried for 15 mins on and off, nothing frantic, then she slept.

Last night, however, she cried for 30 mins. The crying escalated, unlike the previous night. She kicked off all her covers, I replaced them. My dh thinks we are doing the right thing. After all, if you try everything and nothing works, what else can you do? However, as her mum, I find the crying hard to ignore. I don't want to get her into bad habits, I don't want her to rely on us to get her to sleep every night (doesn't need it at other times). I'm concerned I won't have the will power not to pick her up when dh is working nights, he'll be gone when she goes to bed.

Would you let her cry and hope she learns how to get to sleep? 4 weeks seems very early, I know they don't really learn at this stage, so I'm not suggesting controlled crying, just at a loss what else to do.

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aloha · 29/07/2005 18:12

God, it was vile when ds used to cry just like your baby Mogwai. It really was tiring, upsetting and horrid, but you know, he just grew out of it. I don't think we did anything wrong it was just the way he was when he was very small. You can't either blame yourself or think it is up to you to 'fix' it. Some babies are simply like this - the little blighters.
However, dd never cries much and never did all that evening crying. It will pass, honestly, just do what you have to do to get through it. Sympathies.

wysiwyg · 29/07/2005 23:57

I give a thumbs up for the Woodwards Gripe water too!

mogwai · 30/07/2005 00:58

tonight we left baby mogwai wih her granny for the first time while we went for a curry . She was fine, though windy. A bit like a weather forecast.

Granny says baby mogwai's dad was exactly the same as a baby. He didn't stop it until they put a scoop of Horlick's in his last bottle

We started her on gripe water tonight. How do you administer it? Bit tricky with a syringe...and before or after the feed?

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KiwiKate · 30/07/2005 06:36

We used a syringe. Didn't seem to matter if we did it before or after the feed (sometimes DS's colic did not coincide with a feed, and we gave it to him whenever we saw the signs). He'd have a jolly good burp or fart (or both) and then seemed to settle (or at least be more settled than before). After a while he would open his mouth for the syringe and seemed to realise it would bring relief.

wysiwyg · 30/07/2005 09:44

I give gripe water off a spoon. DD and DS love the taste.

mogwai · 30/07/2005 12:22

I might give it when she's not feeding then.

We hit on the idea of giving it through a teat, just holding the teat in her mouth while she sucks.

Actually, I think she has a cold. She certainly has a blocked nostril, sounds snotty and is sneezing more, it's making feedng very hard, her sucking is very unco-ordinated, she's spluttering and choking then getting more upset. Last night, the gripewater came down her nose at the 4am feed and she projective vomitted the whole lot up when she was on her back (rather like a fountain). Which upset me...but seemed to shock her!

So that's a different question! What can you do for a 4 week old baby with a cold? All suggestions gratefully received! I tried to buy a "nose sucker" in mothercare, I believe NUK make one, but they didn't have it...anyone know where I can find it?

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morningpaper · 30/07/2005 12:39

I would just wipe her nose with a damp flannel - those bulb things are a bit much for a little nose. If possible keep her upright as much as you can - in a suitable sling or in her car-seat. You could leave a bowl of steaming water in her bedroom (don't trip over it though...).

My daughter was always very mucousy when she was tiny - she'd sneeze ALL the time!

Twiglett · 30/07/2005 12:42

you can get them from little chemist shops .. you know the kind you find on the high street (maybe Boots stock them now, don't know)

you might want to get some saline drops too .. just in case cold gets worse and you need to soften the snot

oh its all fun and games, isn't it?

(the first 3 months are by far the worst)

mogwai · 30/07/2005 13:35

one month down, two more to go then....hopefully!

my baby is a spotty snotbucket but gorgeous when she smiles

jeeeeees this mothering is harder than I thought

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highlander · 30/07/2005 14:42

moggers - buy Harvey Karp's book (happiest baby onth block). Your sprog is going through a perfectly normal developmental stage. You'll notice the crying gets a lot better after 6-7 weeks (but will get awful in the next couple of weeks).

My only other advice would be to get into a good night-time routine. Bath first (5pm-ish) then lights down, quiet and a looooooong, slow quiet feed. When screaming ensues - swaddle, white noise swing etc etc. Once you've got the knack it should only take 15 mins (2-3 cycles of crying).

It's a miserable phase, my heart goes out to anyone going through this. Hope you and your hubby cope.

H xxxxxxxx

morningpaper · 30/07/2005 14:56

Yes Mogwai you are a helpful reminder to me of all the shittiness I've got to come (due in 9 weeks)...

You can throw all my crap advice back in my face in October.

rubles · 30/07/2005 16:07

Oh Mogwai you have my sympathies with this. I went through exactly the same with mine. I think that I coped by going to bed in the dark with her. I was breastfeeding (but you could lie down and cuddle with the bottle) with a talking book on the cassette and lay there quietly for a few hours until I was satisfied she was deeply enough asleep or until dp came to bed and then did the Transfer To Cot (a very nerve-wracking exercise). It wasn't ideal because I felt like I was lying in the dark all the time and didn't ever see dp - but she wasn't crying and it was a coping mechanism until we got our feet.
At around 7 weeks we discovered swaddling and that was the best thing ever as she started falling asleep immediately, on her own. Have you tried that?...

I think that it is really unhelpful to have people warning you about setting up bad habits for the future at this time when you have so much to come to terms with. I think that you really have to cope as best you can, however you can, and be easy on yourself to cross the issue of bad-habits later on when you are on a more even keel. Don't be too hard on yourself - just do what you have to. She is just so tiny now.

All the best.

Prufrock · 30/07/2005 16:35

Mogwai
I was a routine obsessed GF fan (still am actually) but dd hadn't read the bit of the book that said she should sleep from 7-10pm each evening, although she thrived on the rest of the routine.
We would put her down at 7pm after bath and last feed, only to have her wake up about 20 minutes later, wanting to be held. She was perfectly happy to just lie quietly in our arms, but just did not want to be left alone. By the time of the 10pm feed she was usually hungry again, but then would not go to sleep afterwards because she was so overtired - she would scream until she threw up, whether being held or not. So we started taking her for walks at 7.30pm. I bought a load of taped Shakespeare and renewed my love of the bard whilst getting rid of my post baby fat. I had a set route along the river - dd would always fall asleep by Cascades tower, and by going back up Narrow Street I could guarantee 30 minutes of snoozing. As soon as I got home and stopped pushing, she'd be awake again, but that short nap meant she would get through to 10pm and go straight to sleep after her last feed. Gradually she started showing signs of tiredness earlier in the evening, so we brought forward the 10pm feed gradually until by about 12 weeks she was having a feed at 6.30 and 8, then sleeping to 7am. At that stage I moved the first feed to 7pm, and she went straight to sleep.

IMO & E if you keep putting her down to settle herself during the daytime, she will not get bad sleep associations if you hav to give her a bit more assistance once a day.

Good luck

mandymac · 30/07/2005 17:40

Hi Mogwai

dd coming up to 6 weeks and we are having same problem in evenings. We have only tried to settle her at 7pm a few times, with no joy, so she stays downstairs with us until about 10pm when we all go to bed .
We have found Graco 6 speed swing, lent to us by a kind friend has been a life saver, although other MNs have said their dd/ds's hated them. We pop her in it for an hour or so's peace, and the chance to eat dinner together at approx 7pm, and I have to admit that I used it to get her off after a 2 hour feeding session ending at midnight last night, switched it off after 15 mins, wrapped her up in it and both of us slept for 3 hrs (DH was out working)nb: it was as reclined as poss, so hope its not going to be bad for her back.

I am hoping the grizzly evenings are just a phase and trying not to stress too much. She is V windy and farty too so we are on infacol at moment, which seems to help .

As you can see, not necessarily advice, but lots of empathy! At least we know we are not alone in this one.

Wishing you a better night tonight

mandymac · 30/07/2005 17:46

Sorry Mogwai

Just realised you have already seen my guilty swing story on the passive parenting thread .

These babies need to get with the passive programme!

Lol
MM

KiwiKate · 31/07/2005 20:54

Mogwai, we didn't even try and do a routine with DS when he had colic. We just went with the flow and let him sleep whenever he wanted. It did not set up bad habits, and we never had a problem settling him when he was older. At 2.3yo he is a great sleeper and goes to bed willingly.

I did sometimes stay up all night with him in a lazy boy chair when nothing else worked (snuggling and feeding as needed). First 6 weeks def. the worst.

For blocked nose, there is a baby version of vicks vaporub - which you could put on outside of baby's clothes (not on baby's skin), which we found worked really well to clear the blocked nose

Good luck

rubles · 01/08/2005 07:42

Kiwikate - what is a lazy boy chair?

KiwiKate · 01/08/2005 07:55

It is a soft padded chair (soft like a sofa). You can pull a lever to make a foot rest go up, and if you push back, the back rest reclines (into a half-lying down position). Mine is rather fancy (DH bought it for me especially when DS was little), because it is also rocks and swivels. DH said that if I was going to be up at night with a colicy baby, then I should at least be comfortable (I told him there was no point in both of us getting no sleep at that stage)

mogwai · 01/08/2005 20:52

A trip to Boots has unearthed endless joy - a NUK snot sucker and some earplugs to take the edge off the crying in the evening. If she's gonna cry right down my earhole, I need them .

DH went back to work today. Paracetamol and earplugs are just the job!

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lockets · 01/08/2005 21:08

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highlander · 01/08/2005 23:10

just had a thought - I'm sure there are certain parts of the UK where you'd be advised to wean her onto KitKat fingers by now

serah · 01/08/2005 23:14

Oh god, Highlander - don't be so ridiculous. Everyone knows its Mars Bars FFS
[straight faced emoticon]

serah · 01/08/2005 23:22

Oh Kiwi Kate...... I love my lazy boys... have fab photo recently sent to MIL (in NZ funnily enough) entitled "three lazy boys"....... Sleeping DS in sleeping DP's arms, recumbent in said chair. You gotta love em!

mandymac · 02/08/2005 11:19

Mogwai

Hope i am forgiven for not 'recognising' you on different threads - I'm blaming what I call 'mummy mush brain' although dh claims I have always been this scatty .

Good move on the earplugs and paracetamol - can I also recommemd an eyemask - invaluable for grabbing a catnap in the living room or wherever you finally manage to get dd to sleep .

mogwai · 02/08/2005 13:11

Mandymac, I have developed the amazing skill of falling asleep anywhere, anytime. It's fab - I used to be a terrible sleeper

Actually, serah, I think it's deep fried mars bars, and the recommended weaning time is six weeks. Just wanted to clear that up.

Tried the earplugs.....they take the edge off it, but I can still SEE her crying down my earhole. I'm wondering about wearing an eyemask at the same time....oh hang on, wrong thread...that's passive parenting grade six or seven

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