what would you do if...

[hiddenmum]

(changed my name just in case) friends had asked you to be character references for their adoption proceedure and you felt in your heart of hearts that (one of them) isn't a suitable candidate. if they were going to get pregnant its none of my business wether i felt they would make good parents or not, but i have to tell the person who comes to interview us what i think about them as people and potential parents, and i guess you also have to consider that they are looking at a child who may not have had the best start in life so its even more important to get it right.... but they are my friends!!!! HELP

mud i think you're being a bit harsh tbh. it's hard when you're expected to do something, the stakes are incredibly high (for the prospective parents and the child they may adopt) and your heart tells you (for whatever reason) you can't in all honesty give a total thumbs up. i can understand that.

very well i apologise if you're offended but i do not think i have been overly harsh but I'm seeing it from a differnt angle obviously. these people are close friends who have asked you to be a referee because they believe they know you. it is not easy adopting and not something that is ever entered into lightly. you think they are 'unworthy' of being parents, fair enough don't do it. again I will say that i only know what you have posted and what you have posted sounds, to my ears at least, unsubstantial and grossly unfair. people with careers aren't allowed to be parents. people change dramatically when they become parents

The decision for this couple to become parents is not down to you. They simply want a reference from you - to prove they have no history of abuse/drugs and whatever else.

They will ask you questions - you answer and there is the end of your involvement.

It is for the adoption agency to decide what happens next.

I do think you're expectations are high. Nobody has to appear to be "perfect parents" before they even are parents. Wouldn't you agree that we fumble through as soon as we are parents? and i'm not sure anyone can ever truly be a "perfect parent".

I havn't experienced it, but i'd imagine that adoption process is pretty ruthless and they would ensure that these people are wanting a family and not just fantasizing about some cute little child from a picture.

If you really feel you don't want to give a reference, then you will have to explain that to your friends. If you feel your reasons are justified then you won't find that too difficult to do. If you feel you can't tell them - then do you truly believe your feelings are justified?

you don't think to make comments like "before you do any more damage" isn't being harsh? (not to mention hurtful when the precise reason behind posting this is to make the right decision to prevent precisely that occuring . as i stated we haven't started any of the proceedings yet so i haven't done anything good or bad. also where in any of my posts did i say people with careers aren't allowed to be parents (i myself have a carrer) - i was meerely trying to give an overview of their situation . nor have i mention them to be unworthy of being parents - clearly the tone of my postings has come across to you gravely wrong (i'm afraid i'm no scholar when it comes to the subject of the english language) but i haven't assumed any of their reasonings behind their decisions, just pondering them along with the facts i do know

I know what you're saying mud, but I think hiddenmum is being brave and honourable, thinking fully about what she's being asked to do. It would be much easier to sign away and ignore the deeper responsibility.

What's important here is that hiddenmum knows the people involved and doesn't, in all concience, believe it would be the right environment for a child.

That's a tough dilemma for her. I think she needs to be cut some slack.

then you should have said let me think about it then said no

i am sorry for the "before you do any more damage" it shoudl have said "before you do any damage"

fran1 its not that i don't want to give a reference, i'm just worried about the effect of the reference, i know its not all down to what i say as to wether they will get the go ahead, but i don't want it to predjudice there chances if i say any of the thoughts in my mind, but at the same time i can't say "all the right things that i know they want to hear" ifkwim. i don't agree with your last comment though, could/would you jeapordise a friendship by being that honest

I think there are alternate reasons to each of the reasons you've posted as to why they might not be good parents - many of them to do with fearing they can't have children and putting their energies into other areas of their lives.

I was told I couldn't have children, and to friends who already had them, or who were pregnant, I was very casual about wanting them desperately. Had we gone down the adoption route, no doubt some of those friends could have written the posts you have about us. DH wasn't keen to have children really, he made no secret of that. But since having DS and now being pg again (what does medical science know?!), he has been the most involved, amazing dad possible. He and DS are incredibly close and I like to think we make a pretty good family

But pre-child, people may have thought I didn't like babies much, wasn't bothered about having children, etc.

A lot of what you've said about your friends is what you're supposing and hearsay. I don't think it's fair of you to go ahead with a reference without talking to them about their plans for after they adopt - you've admitted yourself you don't know what they are.

I hope you don't see this as harsh - it's not meant to be.

I would imagine that this process is asking for what you know, rather than wanting you to interpret it.

So if asked you can say "they work long hours" that's a fact. The responsibility then lies on the adoption people to decide if that's a problem.

Stick to facts - keep your opinions to yourself and you won't have done anything wrong.

HM I don't know anythig about adoption other than the fact my niece and nephew in law are going through the process at the moment and it takes ages. They have to be vetted from every angle and undergo a lot of training - and this is even though they have 3 children of their own already!

I'm only saying this because I would imagine that any evidence you can provide as to their character would form just a small part of the case for or against their approval or otherwise. And I really can't imagine that the adoption people would ask whether you think they would be good parents - that's incredibly subjective (as anyone who spends any time at all on Mumsnet will have noticed!) I would expect that you would provide, as the descrption states, evidence of their character, not your opinion of how they perhaps might tackle one of the most life-changing of all experiences. So, "how do they cope with pressure", "Do they have a strong relationship" may be more like it, rather than "Would she still live away from home 3 days a week if she had a child to look after" - how the hell would you be able to know that?

Questions like that, if you are a friend, should be simple enough to answer honestly, even if the answer was "I don't know". It may be an idea, if you're worried about it, to see if you can find out the sort of questions you may be asked before you decide whether to proceed.

I'm sure you don't want to prejudice the case against your friends but, like many posters have said, I couldn't imagine life with kids before I had them. My life has changed 100% and my priorities have changed accordingly. Everyone's do. Even your friends'.

Hiddenmum, just to reassure you that really, you won't be asked about your opinions of how they would deal with a hypothetical parenting situation. Friends of mine have been through this process, and you're asked about your friends, not about mythical situations. And as other posters have said, it's a very small part of the interview - it will be part of a picture the adopting team are building up, it won't be the defining factor in the decision.

they sound like any other mature working couple i know without children. eithr work or pets are the love of their lives from my own experience.

i agree with others in that i dont think you can tell who is going to be a good parent before they have kids
also whether they have a child who already has a history or not - is nothing to do with you.

so they dont come accross as particularly liking children. maybe they dont. your own children are different. i dont like other peoples snotty brats either - although their mothers dont think they are snotty brats ever!!

thanks for the advice everyone, i've aqctually just got of the phone with them (she said she was going to phone me tonight) and she said that she'd like to meet up just the two of us (and later all of us) so she can talk to me about things, she said that i probably think the whole situation a bit weird as she knew i knew she didin't want kids originally and about her work situation etc etc so she wanted me to know what the situation was what their plans are if they are sucessful, plus if it is sucessful she wants to build on our relationship as it would be nice to have another mother to help. I'm now torn between feeling like a sh*t for thinking some of the things i thought and feeling that there was some justification as she repeated some of the things that i saw as "potential problems", anyway, were meeting for a drink after work on friday so hopefully i'll have the whole situation clearer in my mind, and believe me if they are genuine, i'll be behind them 100%

thanks custardo - i posted this thread as it is a real and genuine situation that i am very concerned about. nothing in your post was helpful,nor particularly accurate as if you'd read it you would have seen that they aren't a mature couple, also i don't appreciate the inferral that my kids are snotty brats, you don't know me from adam nor my kids and posting a personal remake like that is out of order, why do people feel the need to post irrelevant and insulting remarks on a thread if you've got nothing to add thats constructive why post

hiddenmum I am glad that you have spoken to the friend concerned and that you will talk about this.
However I am shocked at the offence that you have taken throughout this thread when individuals have challenged your thought process. You have accused them of being judgemental when that is exactly what you have been on your friend.
I did not take offence when you effectively described my life and inferred that I would be a bad parent, but tried to get you to see that life changes for indivuals as different events happen.
I hope that you are not as judgemental to your friend if you go ahead with the interview but remain factual as so many posters have encouraged you to do here.

hm I really think you can rest assured that your friends are genuine. The adoption process is really, really tough and intrusive. I was amazed by how nosy the questions were (in fact, my friend and her DH named their very nice social worker "nosey parker" because of the intrusiveness of her questions - but they knew she had to ask them, it's her job). Honestly, I really don't think anyone would put themselves through it unless they were absolutley 100% serious about it. And that's the point of it, I guess - they have to weed out the people who are only half committed.

HM I can't understand what Custardo has said that could possibly offend you?

Glad you're going to sort it out anyway. perhaps the potential Mum is a closet mumsnetter who's reading this thread at this moment! Spooky!

she wasn't saying your kids are snotty brats!!

Dammit, I keep thinking you're all talking to me! I have SUCH common initials

Re snotty brats - most mums think other people's kids are snotty brats. Our own of course are above reproach. Please HM take a chill pill before you see the adoption people!

Not just your initials that are common, hunky

you are obviously reading strange things into others posting to see custardo's post as personal

belle if you read my posts surely you would have seen that what i took offence at was

1. the reference to having already done damage
2. the way in which mud wrote friend in italics - appearing that i'm not a real friend because of the way i'm approaching the situation
3. cuastado post because it didn't offer a point to the topic and made an indirect snide comment about my children

nor did i infere that you would be a bad parent (and i didn't say they would be bad prents either, just i wasn't 100% sure it was the right thing for them to be adopting)

Hiddenmum, Custardo was talking in general about other children and made a valid point - that when they're your own children, you do like them, even if you don't like other people's children.

And Snafu...I'll get you...

hiddenmum not wanting to get into a point by point blow of this - I was mearly pointing out how I could have infered that you thought I could have been a bad parent in the same way that you have infered from custardos post that you have snotty kids. Custardo did not specifically mention your kids, in the same way that you did not mention me.
The fact that you judged your friend so rapidly worried me and I was trying to point out that life changing events do just that - change your life and therefore the way that you live it and this may be what will happen to your friend and you are making judgements without knowing what their plans are.
However as I said in my last post I am pleased that you a meeting your friend so you can get this sorted and then move forward