Is anybody else not as consistent about using their mother tongue with the dc's as they could/should be, and feeling guilty about it?

[emkana]

Trouble is that a/ dh's German is virtually non-existent so family language is English anyway, and often at the weekend I just seem to stay in English even if it's just me talking to the dc's, and b/I have been in the UK for so long now and feel so comfortable in the language and obviously use it all day every day and watch TV in it etc that it just comes naturally.

The children's German skills are varied - dd1 is very good, dd2 so-so (but her German really really picks up when we go over to see my Mum, which we do virtually every school holiday), ds is speech-delayed so it's difficult to say.

They do watch German TV and seem to understand virtually everything and I read to them in German (ds daily, dd's alternate days - the other day they read with dh).

No.
I will never speak anything but the chosen one of my mother tongues to my children, the same as my father did, 10 000 miles away from his homeland.
If I can't be bothered, then neither will they be.

Is your dh fluent in that language as well, moondog? Because part of the problem is how can we have a conversation around the dinner table that "flows" if I talk to the dc's in a language that dh does not really understand?

Well he never will unless you speak it, will he!
My mother had no knowledge of our language when she married our father.She learnt with us as we grew up but always in a receptive, never expressive form.

But, she is now doing a literature degree in that language.

it grieves me so when children lose the opportunity to keep hold of a mother tongue.It is such a gift and so easy to pass on with some commitment.

And sorry, yes dh is.But I know lots andl ots of families who aren't.
It never felt weird to us-we just gave my mother a brief precis if she got lost but she never seemed to be-context helped al ot of course.

No need to grieve moondog I do still try and they do speak German, just not as well maybe as they could if I was more consistent about it.

Just out of interest, am I right in thinking that you talk to your children in Welsh? And if so, do you live in Wales?

Yes, but am abroad a lot of the time for long periods of time with dh in places where noone speaks Welsh.

Are your children at school yet?

Yes.

Do the children always speak to you in Welsh as well? Or do they sometimes speak English, but you keep replying in Welsh?

I find with the dc's that when we are in Germany their motivation to use German just rockets, because there it feels normal and right to them to use the language of their surroundings, and if they want to play with their cousins only German will do, as they don't speak English (yet).

But here... it's only me speaking German to them, and dh doesn't speak it, and they know that I can understand English just as easily, so things slip.

We are miserably failing at the bilingual thing tbh, kids are still young (nearly 2 and4) so hopefully room to improve but not great atm.

I speak English and so dh was supposed to impart the urdu side of things for the kids. However our family language has become rooted in English.

Yes they do, it would be too weird to speak English with us, just as it was (and is) too weird to contemplate speaking English with my father despite the fact that he (obviously!) speak Englsih and there were no other Welsh speakers around for miles.

My sisters are married to foreigners and also deal with the same issue, namely ensuring their dhs talk their native tongues to their children. One does with ease, the other less so which really pisses my sister off as she feels she is fighting on his behalf for their children to access that language and culture.

DD's majority language is not the language of her dad or if the country where we live. Her preferredlanguage, the one she speaks 90% of the time at home, is my mother tongue (English!) against all the odds and predictions.

I like to think this is because I always speak English to her, never, ever address her in the language of the country where we live ( and DH's language, by the by).

I would like to pat myself on the back, but I don't think it's only down to me. There's lots of stuff which helps, like spending every holiday in English-speaking countries, all tv is in English, all radio at home, all story Cds and nursery rhyme CDs. I am really strict. And if Dd is out if the loop with school friends cos she doesn't watch the same telly, well, so be it, we are different.

We also have English speaking friends with kids who we see regularly, prioritizing seeing them above local language friends.

I don't know if these are helpful suggestions...but I just want to say that it is about more, IMO, than just speaking the minority language consistently; it is also important to provide acontext where the languageus perceived as useful, important, fun, valuable. Not just a way of talking to Mum.

I like that bit about being different.
That was the message that came throguh to us as kids over and over.Be different and be proud to be so.

Hi,
I thought we were doing really well when we still lived in Spain - we always spoke English to the DDs, their English was very good and they were learning Spanish at school and in the street.
Then we moved back to the UK and now DP is supposed to be doing more Spanish with them (his mother tongue) but he's not doing enough IMO and I feel like all the effort I made in Spain has been in vain since they would have learnt English anyway now we are in the UK. Am really annoyed about it but there's only so much nagging I can do about DP not speaking enough Spanish to them...he seems to think they'll learn it by osmosis with no effort on his part.

Emkana, I completely understand where you're coming from. We too are a German/English speaking family, where I speak German and dh English to the children whilst living in the UK.

I do try to address the children only in German (unless they have English speaking friends when I'll repeat it in English), and whilst they understand everything, they sometimes respond in English.

Dh's understanding of German is improving, so, even though he won't understand every detail, he gets the gist of what we're talking about. I do find it a little tiring sometimes to constantly switch between the languages when we're all talking together.

One idea we've recently had was that I speak only in German (to whomever in the family) and dh only in English, with the children addressing us in our respective languages, but as dh's German isn't that good yet, I'm too impatient and end up addressing dh in English again .

What helps reinforce German is holidays in Germany/Austria, German Saturday School and German books/dvds. I've recently also encouraged dd to read in German, which I feel really helps to think in German.

Anyway, just to say you're not alone and even if you think you could do more/better, I know you're giving your children a great advantage, which they can build upon later if they want.

Shitemum - that's sad but very typical, I think
If I can generalize madly, just like it tends to be Mums who take responsibility for the Paed appointments, the packed lunches, the PE kit being taken to school on the right day, my experience and that of my bilingual friends is that it is the mums who tend to take responsibility for bilingualism more seriously. In doing the research and getting informed, even when the minority language is not their own so they can't actually transmit the language themselves.

Also, the idea that kids will get a language with no effort on the part of parents - in your dh's defence - has real currency. How many times do I hear , 'it's great, your kids are going to speak English automatically / without any effort / for free / they're so lucky'.....
Makes steam come out of my ears - ESP 'with no effort whatsoever'! -as it takes so much effort on my part. But it is a common misconception. Oh well, suppose I shouldn't complain. There are worse misconceptions about bilingualism, like, your child's brain is going to be linguistic soup and they'll never speak either language properly.

I am inconsistent but don't feel guilty about it, sorry if that's no help. Reason I'm not feeling guilty is that my dcs have now got to ages 13 and nearly 10 and are very obviously bilingual (speak Swedish to each other when I'm not there, read books in Swedish, dd goes on chatforums, both go out making friends when in Sweden on holiday), so whatever we are doing clearly is working.

Basically, I think because dcs and I talk so much, I have a little leeway, so it doesn't matter if I also speak English when helping dd to rehearse for her role in the drama school play or helping ds with his literacy homework; I'm getting the quantity in anyway, and quantity matters when it comes to bilingualism. Have noticed that my db and SIL who have failed to establish their children's bilingualism are essentially taciturn people: their conversations with their children tend to be brief and basic.

I am not restrictive with dcs' English, I just provide a lot of Swedish. And as Schrodinger says, in fun contexts.

I am also rather inconsistent but have been lucky in that when we moved to Geneva the DC started speaking more English as we have English speaking friends here.

When we lived in Germany I spoke a lot of German with them and it was a struggle to force myself to speak English. I managed it better with DD but by the time DS came along, and DD started Kita we were speaking a lot more German.

Now it is the other way around, and we speak more English so DH has to be consistent in speaking German to them more.

It is difficult but I think after a certain age it is not quite so important. DD is almost 8yo and now finds it easier to switch between her three languages.

don't beat yourself up about it Emkana, it sounds like you have already done a great job of getting them up to a level where they understand what they hear and read, and can communicate actively themselves when they are in Germany.

Have you considered skype for them to talk to their relatives in Germany? Only other thing can think of is possibly spending a longer stretch of time in a German speaking country at some stage - a year or two maybe, if that is at all feasible for you.

emkana, do keep going talking German to them, and getting them to reply in german.
I dont think you will get many english people with similar experiences, we are notorious for sticking with our own language

Hi All

I'm new to mumsnet and was poking around the topics to try and find some advice on this very subject. I was pleasantly surprised and relieved to find that there are other mums facing these challenges out there. Thank God!

Firstly, may I say that I totally empathise. I know it may be a trivial concern to most people but for me at least, it's one of those worries that occupies most of my thinking and I frequently feel as though I'm not doing enough (i.e. guilty).

I have a 22 and 9 mth old I am 2nd generation Polish and my husband is Polish.
I have spoken to both of them in Polish since they were born (ditto my husband). The 'problem' is that I interact with English people, with and without children of their own, and obviously I then speak in English with them and they with me and my children. My children (the 22 mth especially) desperately want to react/interact with the adults and kiddies but often look a bit confused. My 22 mth old has also begun to repeat English words in an attempt to communicate...

I guess what I'm asking is, is it ok to use two languages side by side or is it causing them too much confusion? Also both my babies watch CBeebies,etc and it's all in English.I am concerned that these and other miner factors may hinder their interest in learning Polish, which would be tragic especially as they wouldn't be able to communicate with my husband's family in Poland

I'm very much hoping that there are some experienced mums out there that could offer me some good advice?

Many thanks, in advance...

I wouldn't worry too much about it, Acaya. Lots of children grow up hearing two or more languages spoken by the adults around them and manage not to end up confused. As they grow older they will gradually work out which language goes with which occasion.

Try not to view the outside/dominant language as some kind of contaminant; as long as you speak lots of Polish and make it fun, the little English that they hear you speak (or in my case, the fairly substantial amount of English they hear me speak) won't do any harm.

My children have heard me speak English on and off since they were little: to neighbours, to friends, at the doctor's, at school, to dh: it doesn't worry them.

Again, CBeebies on its own won't be enough to wreck their Polish, as long as you make sure that there are plenty of things of equal interest in Polish.

Hi Cory,

Thanks for your pearls of wisdom and reassurance

I am only concerned because I've recently taken the view that a lot of advice I have received from close family (mainly my mother) is very negative; the consensus being that my children should only be exposed to the Polish language till they are school age!! Can you imagine?!!

Anyway, I quite agree with you that there has to be relevance when learning a language and I intend there to be. I already have stashes of children's books, etc...and plan to make regular trips to Poland with the children.

The funniest thing about all this I suppose is that my dh has been seriously considering a move to Germany for many months now, then there really will be an interesting challenge, for me at least! Lol

Thanks again

You will hear lots of negative stuff when you try to do something with your children that is ever so slightly out of the ordinary, whether it's bringing them up bilingual or co-sleeping or whatever. That just goes with the territory.

If your Mum is Polish, she may well feel threatened by the thought of anything at all coming between her grandchildren and what she wants to think of as their culture. I know my Mum's been a bit like this, though I hope she has felt reassured in later years as it has become clear that my dcs are perfectly capable of belonging to two cultures.

There are no other Swedes living in the neighbourhood, so apart from summer and Christmas holidays, all their interaction with people other than me had to be in English. They went to toddler group, playschool, played with the children next door, all in English. The alternative would have been not to have a social life until they started school- and I never thought that was much of an alternative tbh.

It sounds like you are very well geared towards all this and will be able to cope fine. Just try to ignore the negative stuff.