Please come and talk to me about DS (9)

[3cats3dogs]

I'm finding life with DS quite a struggle at times, and I don't know what to do.
Generally, he's fine, and gets on well with DD and DS2.
He sometimes has problems at school with boys playing roughly, and name calling, but he's not being bullied, he just seems to be very sensitive to normal playground behaviour, so one issue is that I worry myself sick as to how he is going to cope if he is ever bullied.
At home, he'll sometimes wake up in a mood, and will spend the whole day being rude, aggressive to his Dsis and DB, will lash out at me if I do something to "annoy" him (eg. not let him go to the shop for something, not let him play on the computer as he hasn't behaved well enough to deserve it) and DH and I just can't get through to him at all.
We have started reward charts which work really well for a week, then he decides there's no point to them, and stops trying.
We try talking calmly to him, and explaining why he can't behave like he sometimes does, and when he's calm, he really seems to understand what we're saying, but as soon as he's in a rage, he struggles to control himself, and will be extremely rude, laughs at dh and I if we try to sort things out.
DD really irritates him sometimes (I imagine this is normal!) but instead of just ignoring her, he will hit her and be really rude to her (the things that he is ultra sensitive about at school) and I cannot get through to him that it's not OK to behave like that.
I spoke to my SIL about it, she didn't really give me any advice, but said it sounds like we really need to get this sorted. If he lashes out at us all when he's 15/16, family life is going to be awful.
I should add that when he is on form, he is amazing - thoughtful, kind, generous, and absolute delight to be with.
When he's having a mood, he seems really miserable with himself, with us, school etc.

Sorry, this is really long , but please tell me where I'm going wrong .
I find DD and DS2 so easy in comparison. I love DS so much, but feel guilty that I don't understand his moods at all, and I don't seem to be able to help him.

Hi, don't know if anyone's around, but just wanted to vent a little, I suppose.

Ds1 got up in a strop this morning, and we ended up having a blazing row, with tears and shouting (mine I'm afraid, as well as his). Decided to get dh to intervene, which did nothing but escalate the whole situation. Feel so angry with dh, as I feel he makes no effort to remain measured, just shouts and indulges himself in general ranty awfulness.

My poor dd asked if we still loved ds1! felt so awful, so I said "it's because we love him etc etc .Then she said "Well maybe if you told him, he'd feel better". What a little sweetheart.

Anyway, ds1 said he hated falling out with his dad, which is true, he's very soft-hearted and can't bear not getting on with us.
So I rang dh, who was on his way to work, and he proceeded to lecture ds all over again. When I'd clearly told him to be nice as I was trying to calm ds down so that he'd be ok to get on school bus! Had to ring him a second time, shaking with upset and anger, and he finally managed to climb down from his high horse and say a few loving words.

Am so upset and emotionally drained tbh.With ds for being so difficult and ott about the smallest thing, and dh for being an idiot (sometimes).
Roll on family therapy on monday!

Hi HMC , oh no sounds like you had a bad start to the day , you sound like me , i am the peacemaker in my family whereas if i get my dh involved the problems escalate & then DH & myself end up arguing , please dont be so hard on yourself , i know how bloody hard it can be when my ds is being stubborn & defiant , & i scream & shout at him also , i am here now if you need to talk x

Thx ps, am feeling a bit better now. Just a bit of an emotional mess at the mo, you know, crying at the drop of a hat, that sort of thing. Maybe it's because I feel things are coming to a head right now, and hopefully things will be talked about that need to be talked about, iykwim.

Dh talks constantly of me undermining him with ds, and yet when I stand back and let him deal with situations, we have nuclear meltdowns!

I guess us women are the peacemakers aren't we? Am fed up with the arguements tho, it's such a waste of energy!!

Thx for listening and hope all calm in your house! x

HMC - hope you have a better weekend! xx

What happens/will happen at family therapy, and did you have to be referred?

DH and I seem to take it in turns to be the peacemaker/shouty one, which, thinking about it now, must be quite confusing for DS.

sorry had to go out & pick up the dc's from school , I know it can be so hard when the Dh's are at logger heads with the dc's , everyone ends up upset , i really hope you find the family therapy helps ,
ds was upset when i picked him up it looks like the bullying has started up again he was punched in the yard at break time & he was chased down the road from school by the bully i am at my wits end tbh at this stage , while i was standing there the bully made a "slit throat action & threatened to beat ds up on Monday " right in front of me , so looks like i am going to have to go back up to the principal on Monday morning , i am really considering threatening her that if another finger is laid on my son i will get the police involved , dont know what else to do , the last time i talked to her she said her heart breaks for the poor bully's mum&dad as they are struggling to deal with their ds
no sympathy for my ds though .

3c3d, we are paying privately for this therapy, as we live in Ireland where you pay for everything, unless you are on the absolute breadline! A visit to the gp is €50 plus whatever prescription costs, so this therapist charges €50 per one hour session which seems like a relative bargain. We got her name from my son's school. So I guess I'll just have to feed the kids on beans and drink lidl wine (I do anyway, drink lidl wine I mean), for a few months while we see this lady!

PS What happened this afternoon sounds absolutely horrific! Your poor ds! Bloody hell, how horrible for him. The head sounds useless, nothing worse than misplaced sympathies. I would do whatever it took to sort out that bully (am v for you!).

Will the police help? would the threat of them scare the head into action? I'm sure you're thought of this before (and please forgive me if I'm interfering), but are there any other schools nearby which would work for him?

Can't believe that you and he have to put up with this .

HMC - thanks for your kind words
i also live in Ireland - Dublin to be precise the bullying has been going on/off for three years now so the principal has had so many chances to sort it all out but for some reason will not suspend the bully(bully has been expelled from two other schools previously to joining ds's school) so basically he gets a telling off & things calm down for a few weeks then bully starts up again . i rang the police last year just for advice as back then my son received kicks to his head & upper body from this bully & ds ended up suffering from migraine headaches etc which led to MRI scans & tests etc , police told me the fact that the boys are 11yrs old they are at an age to be held accountable , i did not ask for them to get involved though & i am just wondering if the threat of the police might make the principal take action .
unfortunately the only other school near me is an All Irish school.

€50 for a one hour session -

PS that's awful

If your HT isn't being supportive, and isn't doing anything to sort this out, you should definitley go to the police!

Wow, this thread is a bit of a lifeline, (I hope). I am going thru similar issues with DS1 (10yo). Who is also oversensitive and has also (in last 2 weeks) asked me to book him into a suicide clinic . I didn't think anyone else ever had to deal with that from a child this age.

I don't think bullying in any conventional sense is going on, but DS1 feels like other kids in his (so-called) circle of friends often pick on him. I think half of it is him being over-sensitive, and the other half is typical insensitivity of the other 9-10yo boys.

I want to change DS's school but he is very opposed to this... ach, it's hard to explain it all. It's so hard to figure out if another school might make a huge difference to his social problems (and other problems he has with school).

I feel like I am an almost total loss about what to do next. DS is getting 2x5min. counselling sessions at school, but he's not any happier at home for it . Any deep counselling is going to cause my marriage to implode, so I am loathe to try that.

Also, from my own experiences of counselling when I was younger I feel that it is WAY over-rated.

so far the principals only suggestion to sort this all out has been to hold my ds back at home time for 10-15mins & let the bully leave school with the rest of the class , i do not think this is fair on ds as it might make ds feel as though he is being punished for being a victim iyswim ,
going to go up on Monday morning & talk to her again & ask what exactly she intends on doing about it all this time .
feel to even consider getting the police involved as they are only children but i am at my wits end & really dont know what else to do . the bully's mum has already had a go at me for going to the principle about her ds , she was the one who told me her ds is on his last chance as this is his third school & if he gets kicked out it will be my fault .

how is your ds 3cats hope all is well

welcome alardi , has your ds got any real friends at his school ? its so sad to hear a young child talking about suicide isn't it .

Hi Alardi, am to hear your ds and you are having such a hard time. As I'm sure you've read, you're far from alone! I know exactly what ypu mean about "no bullying in the conventional sense", that has been the same for my ds. It's the little petty mean things that can be just as damaging, and so many boys of that age are insensitive oiks!

PS I just can't believe how crap the school are being about this! Holding your ds back is almost saying he's the problem, not the bully.

Is he the main source of the bullying in school? Also, I wouldn't give a damn about getting police involved, if it would make any difference to your ds. My mum was a teacher and she always said that parents never realise how much power they actually hold within the school, as teachers don't particularly want them to know this!

I live in Sligo, btw.

Hi alardi Pleased you've found you're not alone!
DS is absolutely shattered tonight, so has been sitting on the settee doing nothing (which makes a change!) and hasn't had the energy to fight anyone.

good morning

HMC - thanks , sorry for ranting here yesterday , just fed up
yes x is the main bully , sometimes x gets other boys to do his dirty work when he is being watched eg another child would walk up to ds & hit him & say x told me to give you that ds is not a fighter & doesn't have a mean streak in his body , so therefore he is an easy target . he just wont stand up for himself at all , DH called him a wuss last night which really does not help the situation & then told me its my fault ds is being bullied as i have wrapped him up in cotton wool all of his life , he then gave me his "caveman" lecture about "BOYS" being different to girls & must learn to stand on their own two feet .

3c3d- lol at your ds being too tired to fight .

Good Morning to all !

Am sure I'll not get much opportunity to post today, so am grabbing this chance while I can!

PS, are you sure your husband isn't MY husband?! Crikey, talk about separated at birth! Have had the exact conversation or rather lecture from my dh many times.

Really not helpful at all. We all are who we are, and like you my ds is not a fighter, and my dh referring to him as wimp/wuss has, amazingly, not turned ds into an aggressive rambo type. This drives me mad actually.

Seriously ps, the situation at your school sounds dreadful. That bully has absolutely no fear of adults if he made that awful gesture to your son in front of you. Would you go to the head again on monday and demand she take action, or else? Why the hell does she want that little thug in her school anyway?

Btw, sadly my dh's mother died before I met him, so I don't really know what he was like as a child. By his account he was popular, easygoing, stood up for himself and never gave his parents a moments trouble .

Anyway better go before I'm rumbled!

lol at dh's being separated at birth

my DH's parents died before i met him too , my DH is 9yrs older than myself so maybe he is "old-school" in his attitude iyswim , bully has no fear what so ever as far as i can see , it almost feels as though the principal is protecting x for some unknown reason ,
enjoy your day today x

So funny, my dh is 11 yrs older than me! Maybe that's it, and there's a load of young touchy-feely dads out there who actively encourage their sons to play with dolls and loathe fighting .

You have a good day too, and will check in later.

Hi all --
yes DS does have good friends, especially among the gang who he thinks sometimes pick on him. But tbh, I think everybody in this gang takes turns at being the one picked on, DS just doesn't perceive it that way, though.

Last night having raged about having to share the computer with his siblings he fell asleep... at 4:50pm... slept until 6am this morning!! Poor guy, I knew he had a bug this week that was taking forever to clear.

Making him eat and sleep regularly might be half the battle...

lol HMC - our dh's sound scarily alike

alardI

ahh well thats good he has a nice bunch of friends , is he in a better mood now he got a good nights sleep ? i think all our boys are just at a horrible age , hormones are starting to kick in & one day they want to be treated all grown up but the next day they want lots of hugs ,

sorry no real advice but am watching this thread you describing my ds 9 uncannilly tho to add he has said he commit suicide, jump out of windows etc... but doesnt really mean it he just trying to hurt me cos he's hurting and doesnt know how to deal with it. think we not the only ones this seems to be an increasingly common issue i have a friend with 2 ds's in therapy for this same issue and feel so bad for her she doesnt cope as well as i have (and i dont cope that well really!) her life is just so shit i feel for her and any other run ragged mams in same boat xxxx

jayjayp your poor friend must be in bits , how old is your ds ? i never thought 10/11yrs old even knew what suicide really meant

Hi jjp, I think i followed you on another thread. It's funny isn't it the way the same thread titles catch us all!

My ds (11 on fri) took a knife from the cutlery drawer today and threatened to kill himself, (over a really piddly thing, which dh and I had been totally reasonable about).

I haven't even told dh, as I really don;t feel able to deal with his "falling apart stuff" around this.

I feel like a worn out old cushion at the moment, stuffed between ds and his neediness and dh and his bloodymindedness.

Literally 2 mins after ds's knife incident, he was sneaking crisps out of the cupboard and trying to wrangle extra computer time!

Meanwhile I am barely holding it together...

good morning all

(its pinkstripes here btw)

HMC sorry to see you had another hard day with ds , seems like he is aware that his threats of suicide are breaking your heart & that he is using that to get his own way on things , hopefully tomorrow sessions with therapist will give you a positive way of dealing with all this . looks like tomorrow will be a Big day for both of us . xx

goodmorning fellow mn'ers hmc hi again true how we seem to be going through same things/pick up on same threads ds gone to my mams for the weekend so am having bit of break, think its symptomatic of the time we live in so much pressure on the little ones and they not got the emotional tools to cope with it! sorry to hear that you having such a shitty time my ds has gone to knife drawer before in temper and had to wrestle him to the ground to stop him! now i wonder sometimes if he gets his temper from his dad he was a real bastard he battered me when i was with him and was just nasty and manipulative my ds doesnt know his dad as i ran away when ds 4 weeks old so he hasnt learned this behaviour from him just wonder if this temperament may be in the genes?!!

Good morning everyone, hope we all have a good day today!

JJP, am glad you're having a break and hope your ds will be a laid back little dude when comes home! FWIW, I think that while we can inherit characteristics from our parents, that doesn't mean we have to go down the same sorry path. Your ds has a good and caring mother and am sure will turn out fine because of it. I think they all have tempers!

Elmo cannot get your story out of my head! Good luck with everything, I think you're getting some brilliant advice on MN. Will be thinking of you all day and wishing you strength. Many thanks for your kind words to me. Am finding this a great support. xx