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Original poster

"I'm a rubbish person" says my 4 year old

27 replies

clemette · 27/02/2010 22:16

Evening.
I was wondering if anyone can give me any insight into my DD? She is five in April and started school this January. She has been at nursery full-time since she was a baby and we also have a 2 year old little boy. Until she turned 4 she was a happy little thing (we never had terrible twos), she adores her brother and embraced every new experience etc.
Since the autumn her behaviour has deteriorated dramatically. She generally seems unhappy and dissatisfied with everything. She is rude, argumentative, whinges almost all of the time and refuses to do anything she is asked. We are trying hard to embrace positive parenting and reward good behaviour but sometimes she is so foul we are driven to telling her off and shouting at her. It makes no difference to her behaviour but I am really struggling.
Anyway, this week at bedtime, after she was in trouble over throwing a huge tantrum about getting into her pyjamas she sat in bed sobbing and saying "I am a rubbish person." It was heartbreaking to see. So, my question is, is this ever normal? We have never, ever used that phrase so I am not even sure where it has come from.
I suppose an additional question is what can we do about it? How do I challenge her behaviour without damaging her self-esteem?
Thanks for reading

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frasersmummy · 27/02/2010 22:32

I have a son who will be 5 in April and like you we found the terrible 2's didnt happen but found the minute he turned 4 he became a nightmare

I would guess your daughter is saying this because she knows it will get a reaction

My son says some terrible heart breaking things when he is having a major meltdown

I dont have any words of wisdom as I only have the one and to be honest I fall apart when he makes heartbreaking remarks.

At least this should make you feel like you are not alone and hopefully someone will be along with some advice soon

Original poster

clemette · 27/02/2010 23:13

Thank you. It does help to realise she is not the only one. I just hope that it us only temporary and that five will be much, much happier than 4. Just not sure how to get us all there in one emotional piece!

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Original poster

clemette · 28/02/2010 08:54

I am not convinced she said it for effect though, she seemed to genuinely feel it. Perhaps I am desperately naive but isn't she too young for emotional manipulation?

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mrsruffallo · 28/02/2010 08:59

My daughter went through the same at this age. It turned out her eyes were hurting and she needed glasses, but I think the whole school experience contributed to it.
I didn't handle it particular;y well as sometimes it would drive me crazy, but I did find that having a couple of hours to ourselves every weekend helped a lot.

She is now a happy and secure 7 year old, so maybe it is something they just grow out of.

Original poster

clemette · 28/02/2010 09:49

Thank you. So you don't think I need to worry unduly? It just seems like such an extreme thing to say about herself!

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frasersmummy · 28/02/2010 11:32

If it makes you feel better.. my ds said you love my big brother more than me

his big brother was stillborn 6 years ago so he has NO reason to think this

so they can say things that they dont really feel

I am not playing down what she said.. just want to reassure

Original poster

clemette · 28/02/2010 18:19

Thank you. It's a rollercoaster this parenting lark isn't it?

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Original poster

clemette · 28/02/2010 21:05

Has anyone else had this?

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Bleatblurt · 28/02/2010 21:16

My 5 year old DS can be like this. He didn't have the terrible two's either but he got majorly stroppy when 4 hit!

Sometimes he will tell me that I don't love him as he's naughty. I keep telling him that no matter how naughty he is I ALWAYS love him. He will argue with me and insist I don't love him. It's really horrible to hear but I think he's just pushing for reassurance - checking that I will keep saying how much I love him even though I've shouted/been very cross with him earlier on.

Original poster

clemette · 28/02/2010 22:22

Thank you - although I wouldn't wish this on anyone, it is a relief to hear that is is not completely unheard of.

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Original poster

clemette · 01/03/2010 11:15

More screaming today.

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NormaSnorks · 01/03/2010 11:23

DS2 has bouts of this, and he is 7!

Sometimes it seems to co-incide with generally not feeling good/well.. e.g.

something happens at school (which may or may not be being 'blown out of proportion')
coming down with a bug or cold
end of term - gets gradually more tired towards the end...
a series of late nights or changes at home (the kids pick up on my stress and it all escalates )

Just keep reinforcing the positives, however wearing it is!

Sometimes I find the only way to 'jolt' DS out of this attitude is to make it a game.. e.g.

"I'm so rubbish at everything"
"Yes - you're so rubbish - that's why you get 10/1o every week for your spellings..."
"I don't have any friends"
"Oh, who are all these party invitations from then?"

etc

Original poster

clemette · 01/03/2010 11:27

Has he always been the same - did he start young?

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GrumpyBlumkin · 01/03/2010 11:36

my DS2 who's just turned 5 is the same, it's very frustrating so I feel your pain.

DS2 seems to melt down at nothing at all, he'll suddenly start screaming and having a paddy - to the point where I wonder if I've stepped on his toe or something - and it's usually something like he wanted a square bowl not a round one.

I'm hoping it will pass, but if someone has some techniques to help I'm all ears

BalloonSlayer · 01/03/2010 11:40

I was very smug when my 2Yo DS1 didn't have tantrums.

At four though - Christ alive!

I don't know how I got through it, but we did. He is 9 now and a bit of a "victim" anything he does he attempts to turn into a "poor me" scenario.

Example:

DS1: Can we have pizza for tea tonight?
Me: No not tonight
DS1: So you're never going to let us have pizza ever again
Me: That's not true. You'll have it again. But not tonight.
DS1: Other people I know have pizza every night.
Me: I doubt it but in any case - different families, different rules
DS1: Yes but you never let us have pizza
Me: That's a ridiculous thing to say DS1. You had pizza two days ago
DS1: You always say I am ridiculous! Everything I say to you, you tell me I am ridiculous!
Me: I didn't say you were ridiculous DS1, I said that stating that I never let you have pizza when you had it two days ago is a ridiculous thing to say. And it is.

Continues . . .

Didn't mean to go on and on!

When your DD says: "I am a rubbish person," she is probably trying to say "You think I am a rubbish person."

In your shoes I'd answer the hidden question, and say "Well Daddy and I don't think you're a rubbish person. We think you are a wonderful person. Who has been calling you a rubbish person?"

BalloonSlayer · 01/03/2010 11:45

I take it she's not at school yet Clemette?

I put a lot of my DS's tantrums down to starting school - they have to do as they are told all day and have run out of obedience at 3pm it seemed to me.

gagamama · 01/03/2010 11:47

I distinctly remember yelling the words "you want to throw me in the dustbin!" when I was that age. Really normal IME! I guess at that age around the time of starting school they're just starting to learn that not everyone always like them, and need reassurance?

rey · 01/03/2010 11:54

I have always felt that it's the start of school that sets it. They are tired, anxious and having a lot of new expectations placed upon their tiny shoulders. Who wouldn't rebel. Love hugs and more love and hugs especially when you have no time. Scream/cry when they are asleep is all I can say. Actually that's not all I can say try to remember, love hugs and more love and hugs no gifts/sweets just love and loads of it have a reminder somewhere that only you know that its a reminder, as you always forget if you are anything like me

NormaSnorks · 01/03/2010 12:48

Clemette - no, sadly I don't think my DS was always like this
I agree with Rey - I think the start of school brought it on. DS2 is a very sensitive soul and really not very competitive, adn tends to take everything vey literally and personally. Ever minor setback is a major disaster...

DH thinks he is a bit too drama queen-ish about it though... sometimes he (DS2) struts about saying 'I am sooo rubbish at this that I might a well kill myself'...
Five minutes later he will be roaring with laughter at something on TV.

I do think they 'test the waters' to make sure you 'reinforce the love' all the time, but it's very, very wearing...

Original poster

clemette · 01/03/2010 13:55

She started school in January and it has intensified since so perhaps I need to accept that is the primary cause. She seems to be finding the dynamics of friendship quite difficult. Isn't it weird how you can't see the wood for the trees when you are in the middle of all this?
Rey, I hear you. It's just so hard to keep cuddling and reassuring etc etc when she doesn't seem to want me near her and says such hateful things. Hmm - listen to me and my own self-pity, time to remember who's the grown-up I think...
Thanks everyone for helping me work through this.

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stirringbeast · 01/03/2010 14:02

My ds tells me he hates me, I'm mean etc etc when he's angry at me over something. I think the peak was probably around age 4. He's now almost 7 and still says it sometimes but not so often. I used to take it badly but I'm learning that he doesn't mean it, he's not really in control of himself when he says these things.

I do think some children act like little martyrs. My dd can do that if she doesn't get what she wants or if she's been told off about something and is doing a sort of reverse psychology thing on me. I try to say one thing about it (e.g. "Well I think you're very clever") and not get drawn into ridiculous discussions which can go on forever. Change the subject, walk away if necessary, talk properly when people are in the right mood.

stealthsquiggle · 01/03/2010 14:18

I would go against what a few people have said here - my DS does this ("I'm a rubbish person", etc) and I don't think it is done for effect and I do worry about it desperately. In my DS's case, he sets unrealistically high standards for himself (far higher than anyone else is setting for him) and then beats himself up about not reaching them. I worry about his self-esteem, but we still have to tell him off when (as he does) he gets stroppy. There is an artform, I think, to sneaking in the positive re-inforcement when and wherever you can (one which I have yet to master) In the end I said to my DS that for every 'bad' thing he does which we tell him off for, there are 10 good things which we forget to say well done for. It worked at that particular moment, but we do need to do a better job of telling him everything he does well - I see myself (and my zero self-confidence covered by a thin veneer of bluff) in him very strongly - DH, whose self-confidence is unshakeable, fails to see how easily we can both be dented and thinks he should just know he is good at stuff. It is, shall we say, a source of conflict in our household [understatement].

Original poster

clemette · 01/03/2010 14:23

Stealthsquiggle, it is hard isn't it? When she goes to bed I realsie I have missed so many opportunities to tell her how great she is, just through having to deal with her brother/making tea/etc etc etc.
I think my underlying worry is that me and my mother have a DREADFUL relationship. She is bipolar and was abusive. Of course this made me feel so awful. I think I am hypersensitive about making DD feel anything like that, but it is reassuring to hear that it is not completely unusual, even if it is is hard to hear.

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NormaSnorks · 01/03/2010 14:30

Stealth - I do agree with you about it hurting and worrying parents, and the need to try to sneak in lots of postive reinforcements.
The best way I learnt (after reading it on MN of course!) was to let your DC hear you complimenting them/their behaviour in talking to other people.
So e.g. if I say 'that was really good swimming you did today, DS' he will just say 'no it wasn't, X was much better'

So instead I wait until we're home and then I will say to DH (but knowing it is in earshot of DS2) 'DS2 was fantastic at swimming today - he really seems to have mastered the breaststroke legs..' (to which DH (who know about the 'strategy' and plays along) will say 'oh, yes, I noticed on Saturday how much stronger he has become...'

Clemette - maybe she is feeling a little 'pushed out' if she has just gone to school, and sees her baby brother still at hoome with Mummy. It's a difficult time, when they're so young, try to make some special time for just her (however short it might be).

Original poster

clemette · 01/03/2010 14:37

Thanks Norma - I am actually out of the house full-time (today is a rare day off) but I do know she feels sad that her borther still goes to "her" nursery and she has to go to "horrible school". Parent's evening next week so will try to get to the bottom of that one. Why can't they just have one issue at a time

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