Please help! 9 weeks old - what happened to my routines?!

[Emalina]

I have followed routines since birth for feeding and sleeping - following Baby Whisperer and feeding 2 1/2 - 3 hourly, trying the EASY routine, and cluster feeding in the afternoon and doing a dream feed. In spite of this DS never would still need feeding twice in the night, so Dream feed around 10pm, then he'd wake between 12:30 - 01:00 and again around 03:30 and 4:00, and wake in the morning at around 6:00, sometimes earlier, around 05:30, sometimes later around 06:30.

He's never been a good napper at home, sleeping much better when we're out, but since the 2nd week bedtime routine has gone smoothly, and usually he goes down with minimum fuss.

Last week he started going from 10:00 - 02:00, but then waking a around 05:00 and deciding it's morning. I was getting more sleep when he was waking twice in the night, because he has also started waking up to fart, and can take an hour to resettle.

Also feeding in the day today was all over the place - HV says this is ok, but today he hasn't taken as much as normal at his feeds, and then screamed for 1/2 hour at bedtime. (I found this very distressing, even though DH was with him, and I was in another room)

Did I completely waste my time with routines over the last 2 months? HV told us that baby's don't have routine's till they are about 3 months old, but for 2 months DS has pretty much eaten at the same times, within 1/2 hour, and gone to bed fine.

Sorry, this is long and a bit rambling. Why would Tracy Hogg, Gina Ford etc, who have worked with hundreds of babies, advocate routines from day 1 if babies don't have routines??!! (personally I feel that they can learn a routine from the early days) BUT what has happened to DS routine? Will he get back on track?

Could he still be feeling the effects of his injections on Monday morning? He didn't seem under the weather today though, apart from crying more than usual he has been very smiley throughout the day.

IMO routines at the early stage are for the Mum rather than the baby - and that is from someone who followed routines from hour 1 because I need them to organise myself.

Your baby sounds normal, and as mine grew and adapted he often had off days as his routine changed. I have taken bits from Gina Ford, Baby Whisperer and Sleepsense. I think if your're into books, have a read of 'Sleepsense' by Megan Faure & Ann Richardson because it is written by an occupational therapist rather than experienced childcarer - it is the book I have found most useful - but every child is different and my sister didn't find it as helpful as GF and my other sister didn't pick up a book and managed fine.

Injections threw mine out of his routine for 3 days each time.

Mine is 10-months now, I'm no expert and I only have 8-months on you, so take my advice with consideration. You are the expert on your child and nothing you do is a waste of time.

PS: I hate visiting HV's because they just criticise all the time, nothing I ever do is good enough. My friends and I call visiting the HV, visiting the SM club (Sh8T mothers club).

Hey Emalina

I think you have to remember they don't advocate routine from day 1 (if my memory serves me correctly...) And to be honest, there is NO way a babby of before 3 months would learn from the early days. Their circadian rythyms really won't apply until a few moths time)

Everything changes so quickly when they are this age - size, feed amounts, sleep patterns.

I really would advise just going with the flow of things...although I know it must be a bit after having the routine so far!

The best ever 2 pieces of advice I have ever received have been via MN....This too shall pass (still using that nearly 4 years on ) and 'the baby hasn't read the book'

9 weeks is still so early days. Please don't get too worried about routine (although I do, really do appreciate how helpful it is!)

The feeding all over the place may also be a growth spurt?

I'm so sorry, just read that back and it all seems a bit blunt, didn't mean it to read like that

Sorry...

With ds1 I had a routine from day 1 & very rarely had any sleeping or feeding issues. Attempted the same with 12 week old ds2 & got a nasty shock. You were lucky your ds fitted in with your routine initially in the same way as I was lucky with ds1. Bin the books & listen to your babys needs. By the way I would love ds2 to go to sleep after only 30 mins of crying. He's getting better now but for weeks a good night was 2 hours screaming & his record was 6 hours. We're talking near constant screaming every single night. You're not doing yourself any favours by putting this sort of pressure on yourself or your baby. Try & relax a bit.

Congratulations!

It sounds like you are doing really well, and that your DS is sleeping better than many his age.

I agree with what others have said, the routine is really more for you than him at this stage. There will always be days when nothing goes to schedule, but you and your DS will survive and be fine.

Try to relax, and get as much sleep as you can when he's sleeping.

Oh yes. That's the other one I got from MN...Sod the housework and sleeep when they do

ooh I wish i had done that with ds, i just wasted hte time doing pointless things like cleaning
but with dd it was too late as when she slept ds wanted me to play thomas the tank engine
sleeop sleep and sleep whenever your baby does, ignore the routene doo dah i sooo wishh i had not got sucked intot taht nonsense with my first dc
enjoy rest enjoy etc.... relax all you need to be is a good enough parent and getting lotso of rest can ony ehlp
sorry re typos
egg

Seriously, If I could have those first 3/4 months agin I would sit on the sofa, eat cake and drink tea and fuck the worrying about housework...

I ran myself ragged trying to keep on top of stuff like dusting. When I finally told my friend that I'd felt it really hard keeping up with a newborn nad the housework, she just looked at me like this and said, no one ever died because the dusting wasn't done'

Then I started to unclench [brin]

How are you doing today Emalina?

Thanks everyone. I'm feeling pretty emotional still. DS has hardly screamed for weeks, so it's a shock to me, and I think 'what am i doing wrong?'

Routine absolutely upside down and I don't know whether I'm coming or going. I'm feeling very down - I don't know when he might want feeding again so don't know how to plan my day.

I was feeding to a flexible routine which did fit around when he seemed hungry (i just used the clock to guide me as to what his needs might be (tired, hungry etc).

I fed DS at 01:30 and 05:00, he wasn't crying, but was awake and noisy, which woke me - I left him a while both times but he didn't resettle. He also woke at 02:50, but I got him back to sleep that time without feeding.

DH took DS to the lounge after feed at 05:00 (when DS only fed for 5 mins) and DS slept in his swing chair (this is normal for us, just an hour earlier than previously - DH usually sleeps in the spare room so he gets some sleep, and then takes him from me early in the morning so I can get a couple of hours)

DS woke at 08:15, but didn't cry - very smiley. Usually he wants food straight away. DS started to cry a little at 09:00 so DH gave him a bottle of expressed milk (I was up and in the room, but DH always gives bottle in morning) DS only took 75ml. DH went to work, 5 mins later DS screaming, wouldn't take any more bottle, then fell asleep on me. I put him to bed. 10 mins later awake.

I am so worried that he is hardly taking any food and I don't know when he might want feeding next. I think he's still hungry after the bottle, but although has been having 1 a day since week 3 seems to be rejecting it. (and I feel I'm torturing him by giving it to him now!)

I don't know - I'm just feeling very emotional at the moment! I knew where I was following a routine....

ps I can't sleep when he does - he isn't a big napper - 30-45 mins tops, and it takes a while to get him to go down. (Unless we're out and about in car or pram)

My HV has been very supportive - tells me I'm doing a good job, but doesn't advocate following books, and keeps telling me to feed on demand and stop clock watching.

DS crying again now and I feel lost without the routine...

It's true that all babies are different.

Both mine have/had reflux so half an hour of screaming sounds bliss to my 24/7 with DD!

If I didn't try to put her in a routine Id have killed myself by now!

I think babies aren't that easy at this stage. They won't all make sure they get their quota in those close together feeds and if you try to feed them as little as two hourly then there little tummies will think, right, i'll just have a little feed now as I'll no doubt get a feed in about 2.5 hours and this will continue over 24 hours. This is perfect for an underweight newborn but not a healthy 9 week old.

It might work for some though.

I follow GF routines. so roughly 7am...10/10.30am....2pm, short feed at 5, bath then rest of feed around 6 then dream feed at 11. DD 10 weeks and will sleep from after dream feed until 6am.

When I spoke to Doc about reflux he said try to feed her every two hours so she will feed little and often and her stomach will never be too full which agravates reflux.

I did it for about 5 days and slowly but surely I went from one feed in the night (at the time it was roughly 3am) to every two hours!

Again, this might work for some babies but not all.

Try the GF routine (not to the letter, just roughly) and see if that works. It might just ease up the night feeds. It will take a while to slowly stretch a few out.

I still struggle to get my hungry horror from the 10am feed to 2, it's usually 1- 1.30pm but it's fine, it's a rough guide and still seems to ease them into a better routine.

I had DS on GF routine from about 6 weeks and he thrived on it.

DD is more of a challange but since starting it at 7 weeks things have improved greatly. Even her reflux has improved as she's not over feeding as much.

Oh Valp - I have done a fair amount of sofa sitting and cake eating! And practically no housework! Could he be teething so young? Does that put them off food? He seems happy chomping on my finger rather than suckling.

Thanks Day off - I am not handling this no routine thing! I will give the GF one ago, but like you be more flexible with it. I did read in BW that cluster feeding should stop at 8 weeks anyway, so pretty similar routine to GF, and DS was going with it until now.

I do really feel for all of you with babies who have reflux or colic, I do know how lucky I am with my DS, and I feel a wimp , but because he doesn't cry often (or didn't!) I feel panicky when he does, and end up crying myself! HV is aware I'm pretty low at the moment and is making extra visits so I can offload. MN is a godsend though - thank you everyone for all your support.

what helped for me is having a routine for me but doing things that allowed dd to sleep feed when she wanted/needed to. If you are bf and they are so young, they can feed and sleep wherever. Organise your day and let your baby fit in with you.

I sympathise - I have two DSs and was very much a clock watcher with DS1 until I learnt to trust my instincts and go with the flow a bit. I was lucky that he fed 3 hourly anyway, but this wasn't anything I had enforced, I was just lucky!
DS2 however, wanted to feed every 2 hours until about 2 months old.

Don't worry about actual clock times for now - just think roughly 3 hours from last feed to the next.
I know you won't want to hear this but DS2 has just started sleeping from 7.30pm til around 7am at 6 months old , he still fed at around 2am until last week (and this is still better than some....). This was a surprise to me as DS1 slept from 10pm - 4am from about 10 weeks old. Both breastfed, just shows how different they can be.

Good luck, and please try not to clock watch, you'll just get stressed out! They are constantly changing and as soon as you think you have routine sorted after a few weeks it can change anyway. I aim for a pattern to the day, rather than sticking to rigid times.

Oh and try a dummy if you haven't already - although I never wanted to give one both of mine wanted to suck for comfort and it helped them to settle themselves.

Emalina - I definitely understand what you mean about needing a routine - I think that DS's unpredictability has been one my greatest challenges. I've felt like I couldn't make any plans at all sometimes.

A couple of things that I found helped me to keep my head above water (so to speak!) were:

This book. It is very comforting when you feel your world has turned upside down.

A baby carrier/sling - DS and I didn't do slings, but once he was big enough we got on very well with our BabyBjorn and he just loved going in it while I pottered around the house getting on with chores. It really settled him down if he was crying and I'd tried everything else.

Walks with the pram until DS dropped off then dive into a coffee shop for a coffee and cake and a bit of a read while he napped.

My DS has really only ever been a 30-45min napper, so I do know what you mean about it being hard to get much sleep in yourself. But do make sure you have a sit down and a cup of something.

It does get easier - promise!

Hello, I'm new to MN but am pretty good on routines. I've have a 4 year old and 20 month old twins. All 3 of my kids have slept through the night from 8 weeks. The trick is quite simple. you need to limit the amount of sleep they have during the day. At 9 weeks old your baby should be having 45 mins around 9am, 2 hours from 12pm and a nap of around 30 mins around 4.30pm. at 10ish you should wake your baby for around 30 mins and give him a good feed, change nappy, cuddles etc then back to bed. he shouldn't need to wake after that unless he's disturbed by a pooh! if so, quietly and without eye contact change his nappy with minimum fuss, settle down and door shut. key is to wake him at 7am to ensure the day routine isn't disturbed as that will throw out the night pattern. good luck.

Gina? Is that you?!

LOL Pogger was just wondering that myself, but of course SWMNBN doesn't actually have any real children of her own, does she?????

OP I hope things are better for you. It has already been said but I'll say it again -

THIS TOO SHALL PASS

Please don't get stressed over lack-of routines. Don't get fixated on sleeping through the night either.

Just go with the flow. You will soon be looking back on these days with joy, as you lie awake at 3am wondering where the bloody hell your teenagers are and with whom.....

More seriously, Emalina, I hope you're feeling OK. I also went down the routine path with DD (a bit later than you but definitely from about 3 weeks onwards). I found it gave me a bit more confidence in what I was doing, and the feeding routine meant that I could plan my day better.

BUT... If I was going to do it all again, honestly, I would throw every single baby book I bought straight in the bin and just try really hard to go with the flow. Am an anal control freak, so this is no small thing!

Looking back now (from the lofty 7 month point ), I can see that all the books ever really did was make me feel MORE stressed, not less, because DD changed by the second, minute & day, refused to stay 100% within any routine, and just developed as a little person in her own right.

Sorry for the essay. Just trying to say that I think the routines are great if they make YOU feel happy, otherwise they're just not worth it.

This too shall pass. In a flash. Try not to worry - you're doing fine & it's bloody hard.

Another vote here for binning the books. My 13 wo DD has had me in a right flap despite being 2nd child and feeling I had it right with DS (2yo). I filed away all my baby books and decided to go with the flow and I definitely feel more relaxed. I'd LOVE a good routine but it just doesn't work for us. your baby sounds lovely. Try and enjoy it!

OP - i too am a routine obsessive! IMO there is nothing wrong with a routine, and there is nothing wrong with following GF or BW.

BUT you need to ensure you do 2 things:

1. Choose the bits of these books that suit you and your family - don't expect everything to fit and work perfectly. There are no guarantees and every baby is different.

1. Accept that there are things that throw out even the most predictable of routines (immunisations, illness, growth spurts, teething ad infinitum!). You just need to be thankful for every day when the routine goes smoothly and mentally prepare yourself for retrograde steps.

What you need to remember is that you know that your baby HAS been in a routine, and that it is most likely that whenever this little blip comes to an end, you will be able to reinstate the routine.

(However, as many wise posters have said, it is only a stage. You will be able to have a life again one day . Try to relax and enjoy a few unplanned days at home!!!).

I was wondering if it's possible for you to get rid of the books and forget routines for a short while and enjoy your time with your new born. I had similar worries when I had my DS almost 8 months ago. I was desperately trying to establish a routine but it only made me more stressed. Then I stopped worrying about it.

Then suddenly, I realised that my son established his own routine at 4 months and now I plan our days according to this.

I'm glad I did this because instead of worrying for nothing I enjoy my time with DS. After all, he's not going to be a baby forever!

So please, please enjoy your time with your gorgeous baby and try not to worry about these things!

nw3mumof3 - sorry, can't let your post pass without comment.

I'm very pleased that you have had babies who settle like this - and blimey, you would need that with twins - but it is not helpful to imply that every baby is going to react the same as yours have.

Lol (bitterly) at the idea of "limiting" our DS to over 3 hours napping a day. I could count on one hand the days when he has had that much napping, and he is one in less than two weeks. We didn't get a good sleeper!