toddlers and table manners - what are your expectation?

[lawrieisluckybutnickyisnicer]

er, that's it really.

dh's family have much higher expectations than us.

i don't necessarily think these expectations are a bad thing. maybe even a good thing if these are goals to be actively working towards, rather than a dogmatic enforced. i find eating with in laws and extended family very stressful.

part of this is trying to reconcile our approach to dd (23mo) with sil's approach to her dc (4 and 3). so consistency hard and i am always very careful to help to try to maintain the standards they set for their kids.

to my mind the following apply for dd (22mo). not sure how they would apply to older toddlers cause no experience.

** make some semblance of a thank you to whoever cooked. similarly ask to leave table rather than just get up and go. guess this depends on the toddler involved how much of this they can do - but certainly work towards it.

** if rude about food "dont like/want this" should be told that's not appropriate.

** work towards staying at table longer bit by bit. but certainly not be kept there til all adults have finished pudding and chatting etc if it's a big family thing (by which i mean more than just bog standard tea at home three of us on a tuesday IYKWIM)

** know that playing with food etc not appropriate etc etc

dd is just about okay with the above. but i have no way of knowing her brother (8mo) will not be a bounce around restless boy and i fear the future!

DS is 2.4. He must sit in his booster seat and be strapped in.

I'd prefer him to wear a bib and use cutlery, but if he's not into doing either of those things that day, that's fine! He generally does use a fork but finds it difficult sometimes so if he wants to pick food up with his fingers, I'm really not bothered.

No banging his cutlery or cup. Playing with food is OK, as long as he's not making a mess

No rules around how much he eats or that he must eat XYZ in order to have pudding although I have asked him to finish what's on his plate before he can have more. But he's generally a good eater and doesn't usually need any encouragement.

He's very polite at the table. It's not something we've enforced at all, just something he's picked up. He always says thank you.

dd2 is 3.6

I expect her to:

Sit on her bottom on a chair whilst eating

Not get up and down throughout meal

Attempt to use knife and fork, but a spoon will do (discourage eating with fingers)

Not speak with mouth full

Ask to get down from table

My daughter is not quite 15 months. I expect her to:

Rip off her bib within seconds of food arriving.
Get at least 60% of the food she picks up in her mouth. Another 20% ends up on her top, her forehead, in her hair and eyes, and often all over her pants.
Attempt to use spoon, get over excited and fling another 10% of food off tray.
Get bored, and start swiping the remaining food off her highchair tray into her lap.
Complain about being stuck in highchair.
Make imploring 'pick me up' gestures at me.
Get picked up, placed on lap.
Immediately show renewed interest in food, if food is on parental plate and can be conveyed via parental cutlery (the danger gives it flavour).
Attempt to reach for wine glass.
Get down and go chase cats.

I'm being silly, but lawrie if you had dinner with us, you wouldn't see my daughter's behaviour as undermining what you're trying to teach, would you?

(Although you might be advised to wear something machine washable)

Because my daughter's too young to understand much about behaviour yet, and so I make more allowances than if she were older. You can say to your daughter, yes I realise that E is drawing squiggles on her arm with chocolate custard but you are a big girl and we don't do that.

Likewise, your SIL will be fine having dinner with your much younger child. There's a vast difference between 22 mo and 3 years, after all.

DS is 2.2 and he is expected to:
sit up to the table properly (on a normal chair with a cushion but attached to the chair by reins if out at a restaurant)
use cutlery if he can or fingers if not
keep food either on the plate or in his mouth, avoid getting it elsewhere
drink from his open cup himself
feed himself
STAY on his own chair until Mummy has finished, for goodness' sake, instead of trying to climb onto her lap

But I do let him down before everyone else has finished (at home) because his Dad has usually buggered off by then as well (if I can't train DH, what hope is there for DS? )

I think, if it were me, I would have quiet word with SIL and tell her that I am not trying to undermine her ways but that DD is at a different stage to her DC and it would be a tad unreasonable to expect her to conform to standards set for older DC. Then it is up to her how she deals with her own DC - if it were me I think I would relax my own rules for a one-off family meal, tbh, and let the 3 and 4yo leave the table with the 23mo if necessary. (they might not want to of course!)

our rules (not that they're always obeyed) for ds at 2.5 are:

1. no standing up/climbing on table
2. you have to try a bit of everything, but if you really dont like it you can leave it
3. do not throw peas at the dog

and, um, that's it. apart from say yes please/no thankyou etc to stuff(but that's the same all the time not just mealtimes).
have never insisted that he stays there for any length of time but have recently introduced the convention of chatting with mummy at mealtimes rather than just shovelling it in and scarpering. i wouldn't call it great conversation but to him it means he's guaranteed my full attention which he likes. makes it easier in cafes or places he is meant to sit still for longer, as he has vaguely got the idea that you don't just eat and run

Oh god, it's all I can do to stop dd (21 months) from throwing food on the ground and pouring the milk from her cereal on the table and splashing it everywhere. When she's on a proper seat she stands up loads and if I tell her not to do any of the above she does it more and it becomes a "let's test mummy" game! If I take the food away she doesn't care but remembers the big fuss to do it the next time. So now I just say nothing and take the food away.

TBH I don't mind her playing with her food a bit once she's finished as I can understand her fascination, and we did BLW, but I do take it away before it gets too messy. I don't mind her eating with her fingers. I don't expect her to sit at the table until the adults are finished at all as I'm a slow eater and like to eat in peace, and I don't believe in this rule generally. Standing on the chair and throwing food are not allowed in theory, but as you can see I've been having problems with this.

Thanking me for the food and asking to leave the table? In a couple of years' time... She will also be expected to help set the table, put her plate in the sink and help clear the table, as I said, in a couple of years' time..

Our rules for DS (4.5) and DD (just 2) are:

1. Sit at the table nicely for the whole meal. If this is an extended meal with adults then parents may use discretion to allow dcs to get down and play after main course if there will be a long delay before dessert. However this is not standard and dcs are usually expected to sit nicely at the table without playing for the duration of the meal.

1. No toys at the table

1. No temper tantrums/tears at the table - dcs must get down and cry in other room/hallway if required. May come back to table when ready to sit nicely/eat.

1. Cutlery only, no fingers (unless its pizza/sandwiches etc of course!). DS to cut food himself (but may ask for help).

1. Open cups for both. DD must wear bib, DS must wear bib/napkin when instructed to do so

1. No dessert (not even fruit) unless dcs have had a good stab at eating, or at least trying propery (3 mouthfuls minimum) everything on their plate.

1. Please/thank you for all requests

1. Eating nicely - mouths closed, no singing/messing about etc during meals

1. Must thank whoever made meal and ask to leave the table before getting down.

FWIW, I appreciate that these are fairly strict guidelines but they've always been in place in our household and so the dcs take it for granted. We only eat as a family at weekend but tend to have lots of guests/family for formal meals every weekend (or go to them) so the dcs are used to 'big' fairly formal lunches/dinners weekly. They eat together on their own in the kitchen during the week but I expect similar levels of behaviour. On the plus side, both dcs are already comfortable using adult cutlery, china plates and proper glasses which is nice for all of us

It hasn't been hard establishing these rules and it is lovely being able to eat out with the dcs anywhere and know they will behave nicely...and great when complete strangers tell them how brilliantly they've behaved in a restaurant as it really helps reinforce the behaviour.

Obviously I don't expect dcs friends to stick to our rules (or our friends dcs, for that matter!)...but I will tell them 'what we do in our house' if they mess about during meals when over for a playdate

I think table manners are greatly under rated and that guiding your child from the moment they eat with the family is a good way to end up with DCs you are happy to take anywhere and everywhere with you as well as giving them a good grounding for knowing how to behave as adults.
I expect my DCs to sit at the table properly, eat and drink nicely, not to speak with their mouths full,not to eat with mouths open, to say please and thank you, to wait until everyone has finished before asking to leave the table and not to get up during the meal.
It's basic manners and I can't understand why anyone wouldn't try to encourage good manners in their child seeing as it stands them in good stead for adulthood.It's not hard to let them see from a young age how to behave appropriately.
DS3 is 2yrs old and he knows not to speak with his mouth full, he says please and thank you, he sits nicely at the table and automatically asks if he can get down once he's finished. It's a natural thing for them all, not forced. They also take pride in being nice company at the table - when they get complimented on how nicely they sat at the table during a meal, they are clearly proud of that.
As a result, we can take our DCs out for meals or to people's houses without having to worry about how they will behave, they enjoy mealtimes and we are more inclined to treat them to meals out knowing they are nicely behaved.
I think you have to lead by example though so if you don't automatically follow certain table manners yourself then you can't expect your child to know how to eat properly.
It's not controlling, it'd guiding your child so that they develop into adults who are comfortable in all sorts of social situations and who are pleasant to be around when they're eating!

display - they're 2 FFS - yes they need to learn - and yes they will learn.

But let me assure you that you are damned lucky that you have a child at 2 who complies with the expectations...........as believe me I didn't know what had hit me when DS3 came along

Actually I find that the laid back approach works equally as well and taking DS out to people's houses and to public places are generally always a pleasure!

OP! Even I dont follow all that you said LOL! Mine is only 19 months old and I expect him to ... well err ... eat his dinner! Thats all!

DD is almost 3. She is expected to try the food, and not throw it on the floor. Pudding arrives regardless but is more likely to be cake is she has eaten well and plenty of fruit if not had much proper food.

DS 13mo, he is expected to shovel in as much as he can reach. And do a good poo usually.

Both children have beakers taken away 'for washing' if they are banging them wildly.

Both are expected not to give their meals to the dog. That's about it.

Repeated getting down from the table(DD) implies that the meal is finished and no pudding is wanted

This is a very interesting thread! I have 23 month old highly "spirited" DS and glad to see the wide range of posts.

DS is expected to try his food - if it is something new and he doesnt like it I have something else hidden on standby!

There is no bashing of any sort allowed in the kitchen, whether at meal time or not, after a couple of breakages!!

DS often leaves the table before we do, and I allow this happily, especially if he has had a good go at eating, and then he just goes to play in the playroom next door. He does not sit still at any point during the day so I think he does well to sit for 10-15 mins to eat his food.

I think what you have put apply to my DD also. DD is actually happy to sit at the table with the adults and seems to rather enjoy it. However, like you I suspect her brother will not be quite so keen.

DH's family are obsessed with food and sitting around the table for very long lunches (and breakfasts and dinners...) - I have to admit that I find it boring and want to get down from the table - so DS won't be alone!

I have to say that meal times with my DTD's (21 months old) is chaos. It mainly involves them throwing food on the floor, wiping it in their hair, spitting it down their bibs & laughing raucously whenever their sister finds something particularly naughty to do. They try to climb on the table, swap chairs & food & use their beakers to squirt drink on the table which they then splash everywhere.

My job is to say 'no, don't do that, get down, sit down' etc. I'm pleased if a portion of it has gone in their mouths. I'm hoping they'll grow out of it with a bit of persistence on my part. After all they're little more than babies at the mo. Don't think we'll be winning any prizes in any best behaved children contests though.

I expect dd's 1&2 (8&4) to say please, thank you and say thankyou to the parent who cooked the meal. They also have to eat with their mouths closed, hold their knives and forks properly and when finished leave their knives and forks at the 6.30 position. They also ask to leave the table when everyone has finished.

Dd3 is 2y4m and I expect her to do all of the above but allow her a spoon with her knife and fork, dd4 is 15mo and still wild in the highchair.

Sloppy table manners are my pet hate and make my teeth itch, dp's family eat like pigs and it makes me feel really I'll when we have to eat at the table with them.

I think it's fair to say that your DD is younger than the others so doesn't have to follow all the same rules. To be honest, as long as my DD (22 months) at least eats some of her food then I am happy! Rules we are working on... no spitting out food, no banging on the table with her fork, no pulling her bib off! I don't mind eating with fingers, though at the moment she is going to the other extreme and often insists on eating sandwiches with a fork! I don't expect her to sit til the adults are finished. She can have pudding as long as she's at least made a good attempt at her main, I'm not a believer in making them eat everything on their plate, surely it's better to get them into the habit of stopping when they're full.

Some tactics I use when we're eating with other people... I try not to give her any filling snacks before lunch so that she's extra hungry and more likely to eat, and also make lunch a little bit later than normal if possible for the same reason! Also, if I'm cooking, I make sure it's something I know she'll eat. And don't put too much on her plate, much better if she asks for more.

I am really impressed by the rules some of your toddlers are apparently able to conform to. [inadequate face].

My daughter (around 2.5) wouldn't be able to understand a lot of them.

The language, I suppose. Even if she could be made to understand such rules at one meal, I think she would forget them by the next.

I mean, there are certain things which have sunk in; she is very good at please and thank you, for example, but she would thank whoever put the plate down, she wouldn't get it if there was someone else to thank (ie, the person who cooked the meal). I tell her not to speak with her mouth full, but she clearly doesn't understand what I'm asking of her.

Perhaps she is behind with understanding things. I hadn't really worried about it before.

Gosh, I feel rather behind here. The curse of being a first-time mummy with no family members close by with children, and no experience of children before mine came along!

Pretty much we are working it out as we go.
ds is still in a strapped highchair - we don't have dining chairs, and our dining area is a large plastic picnic table in the conservatory (easy clean floor!) plus cast iron garden chairs for us. But we do always sit there even if the only meal served is his.

Our wishlist for mealtimes with ds (2.4) is

1. Use cutlery properly (no knife in mouth ever)
2. Food in mouth for chewing not on table for playing
3. No kicking mummy under the table (!)
4. Open cup
5. Saying please and thankyou for food and drink
6. Saying pardon me when he burps!
7. Eating at least some of each course

I shall be trying some of your ideas this weekend during a trip to the grandparents!

DD (5 months) I am content if any mush goes in without a raspberry being blown and redistributing said mush all over me, the chair etc!!
However DS (3.2) knows he is to sit at table, make a concerted effort to use appropriate cutlery, try to remember to eat with his mouth closed (new rule we're working on!), no singing, shouting or banging.
If he persistently plays with food or makes a fuss the food is removed. An apology gets dinner back.
No puddings if food on plate not eaten (if he's hungry enough for pudding, he's hungry enough to make a good effort at the main course!)
Please and thank you when asking for things and meal is served.
On the whole he will happily sit with family if eating out or with company until the meal is finished, but if he's restless I usually have some quiet toys/activities he can do.
At home however we have a no toys at table policy!
Re-reading all this I'm wondering if I'm being strict, but I guess I've been lucky as he's not really tried climbing on the table etc!

My DD is 2.5, I like her to eat with her cutlery but she will often pick some food up with her hands, and I like her to enjoy what she's eating. That's about it really. She eats really well IMO, and is learning her manners from watching us. She loves pretending to be us, so drinks from she same glasses as we do and wipes her face with a napkin. We eat together as often as we can which definitely helps, she gets bored eating on her own and will often finish early so she can go and play. I don't serve pudding either, I don't like the idea that you always have to have something sweet after savoury. She is at nursery 3 days a week and they have puddings there.