Am I wrong to tell my child that sometimes she makes me feel miserable & that I want some time away from her?

[glittertum]

My 4 yo dd has always been a demanding handful. At the moment we are in the throes of full on screaming tantrums if she can't get her way - she had one in public yesterday and I overheard an onlooker comment she had never seen such a bad tantrum before . She was like a screaming she-devil and I had a job to handle her. We had another one this morning as I was trying to get her out the door for preschool and we were late - she wanted a certain pair of clip on earrings on - I hadn't a clue what earrings she was referring to, let alone have a clue where to start looking - so I said no, no time, got to go - cue tantrum - again . It's wearing me down and this morning I snapped big time. I turned into the screaming she-devil, I'm afraid - my screeching and screaming knew no bounds . We were late for preschool and she is now with my mum to give me some space. When I lose my rag with her I do find myself saying some quite hurtful things like - go away, you make my life miserable, I don't want you anywhere near me etc etc . Am I too harsh or is there no harm in letting them know at such a young age that their actions do have an impact on the wellbeing of those around them? Does anyone else say these things in the heat of the moment. I feel really bad - it does happen quite often. The flip side is I have no doubt my daughter knows how much I love her - i'm always telling her, like any other mum, I'd die the most painful death in the world for her, she is my child and my love knows no bounds - but she does get me down so much sometimes and I find myself being almost spiteful to her . I can't seem to control my outbursts of frustration. Am I a bad mum?

I can understand how you find things trying but I'm afraid I think you are wrong to say to your daughter that she makes your life miserable and you don't want her anywhere near her. That's a very harsh message for a little girl to hear and even if you think it doesn't seem to be having an impact on her, it will. No child should be told they are making their parents' life miserable - that's a far cry from helping her to understand that her actions have an impact on other people.

See if you can remove yourself, or remove her - put her into a safe room where she can amuse herself for a bit - until you have calmed down and regained control.

Generally, I think there is no lesson that can be valuably taught to a child through anger. That's not to say you won't feel angry sometimes, we all do, sometimes for days on end, but do try and think of the effect it will have on your little girl. Four is really very young.

Not bad no, just very frustrated.

However yes are VERY wrong to tell your child they sometimes make you feel miserable. You really must learn to curb that otherwise she will be constantly pushing the boundaries just to make sure you really do love her, and you will shout that she makes you miserable, and she will believe it, and become very insecure and tantrum.....it's a very difficult vicious circle to get out of but you need do.

Am sure others will offer more concrete suggestions.

"Generally, I think there is no lesson that can be valuably taught to a child through anger."

Nicely put

I agree, you shouldn't say those things to a 4 year old. That you will fail occasionally in the face of tantrums makes you human, but if it's happening quite frequently it might be worth seeing if you can find some other coping strategies to help you avoid these incidents in future.

You are very wrong to tell her (at her age, or any child at any age). But you are entirely within your rights to think it, and post about it on Mumsnet as often as you like

The main problem with shouting back like that is that you are teaching her that tantruming is normal (since mum does it too).

It is incredibly difficult to hold onto your temper sometimes, you need to find a solution that works for you. Whether that is leaving her in a safe place while you have a few minutes to calm down, counting to 10 or whatever.

Remember that she is not tantruming to HURT you, she is doing it to get something for herself.

Keep repeating that to yourself.

You must stop telling her the things that you do. But you know that. You wouldn't have posted otherwise.

Which means that you CAN be a good mum. You just need a bit of support.

Thanks - pretty much what I thought. God, being a mum makes you feel rubbish sometimes dosn't it? Will strike those words off my vocab immediately and concentrate on making her feel like she is the most important thing in the world. Thanks for letting me air and work through what i know isn't right.

You are giving her mixed messages which will make her insecure. You say you tell her you love her but only when she's good presumably. You need to let her know you love her unconditionally but her behaviour makes you sad not her. Did she have to go to pre-school? Does she like going? What sanctions are in place for bad behaviour or rewards for good behaviour? Four year olds can be testing but do understand consequences and react well to reward systems: star charts, tick charts. My dcs didn't do 'terrible 2s' but I can remember the 'farking 4s' stage and can sympathise.

The I'd die a painful death for you .. are you astually telling her that?

It seems a bit of a dramatic thing to say to a four year old.

YY we all would but TBH its likely to make her feel insecure.. that you would die. A four year old it VERY literal

Tell her you love her but FGS not that.

Other than that the tried and tested ignoring on tantrums and a gritted through the teeth.. this shall pass..

Other solutions include always making sure you have enough time to deal with her tantrums properly, so try to leave early for things, rather than late (although this is easier said than done! )

I think the OP was saying she tells her dd that she loves her, not the die for her bit

Agree with everyone else but massively sympathise. I fear it will be me writing that post soon. DD has always been hard work and at just turned 2, it's getting harder although she is completely delicious of course. I need to work on coping strategies now, or up the tablets...

I do tell her I love her when she has been naughty - that's part of the making up. I know she knows how much she is loved. She loves pre school and has no problem going. I am finding it hard to be consistent when dealing with bad behaviour - sometimes I follow through with my threats of what I will do if she continues to be naughty, sometimes I don't - very often I am too soft to follow through. She knows this. I am well aware this is fuelling her bad behaviour as she knows that, apart from me shouting words at her, there is often no other consequence. DH says I should ignore her more and not give her so much attention. Maybe he's right. God, I find it hard.

words - no, I don't tell her I'd die a painful death - that's just a figure of speech I used to illustrate the obvious that I love her so much and to underline that my maternal instincts of love and protection are there for her just in case anyone was wondering if I actually love my child. of course, I wouldn;t be so dramatic to her.

You misunderstood what I put- the 'she knows' bit refers to the fact I love her

I agree with looking at other ways to handle the tantrums because in the long run hearing those things won't help your dd become better behaved, I agree with other posters who say she will push the boundaries more which is not what you want.

eg this morning when she wanted the clip on earring's instead of just saying no we've got to go which is understandable and something I might have said when in a rush too, you could have picked her up, cuddled her and said I know you want them so later when we have time we will find them together ok because we don't want them to get lost at school do we?

Something else I always do is to give a running comentary and warnings of things eg we have to leave in 15minutes please can you find your shoes and coat then ok we are leaving in 5 minutes please can you put your shoes and coat on now.

Rewards rather than punishments can be a good way of preventing the bad behaviour too, over the past 3 days I have introduced a sticker chart and she is loving that, there are 5 things she needs to do per day and if she does them all, all day she gets 5 stickers after dinner to show daddy when he comes home and then she has a bath and gets to either have a story in bed or come back down in her pajama's for half an hour. So far she has had all 5 stickers everyday, if there have been times she has started to come close to not getting her stickers I have reminded her how pleased we will all be if she gets all her stickers.

Time out is also very useful and I will even use it with my 10yr old if needs be, I will tell her a couple of times to do or not to do something and if she just isn't listening I send her to sit on the stairs until she is prepared to listen and then I go and explain it and she apologises, it works very well with my 4year old too although there is usually a lot more crying and screaming involved to start with but she is old enough to understand that I will not put up with certain behaviour and there will be consequences.

One helpful bit of advice I read is to use 'I' rather than 'you' when you're angry or upset with your kids, so 'I'm feeling upset' rather than 'you upset me'. It's fine for you to have feelings but there's a line between having them and making her responsible for them IYSWIM (not that you are, but your words indicate that).

I'm sure we're all guilty of saying things we regret to our kids, but I do find this a handy tool in times of stress

(and I have a bolshy 3 yo and a fearless 1 yo so times of stress are frequent!)

Glitter thanks for clearing that up !

Was a bit worried

Remember one thread on MN where someone suggested when you felt like losing your temper to imagine a camera crew in the room filming you for a reality tv program. It bloody works on reigning you in.

Thank you all for your posts - I will endevour to kerb my tongue in future, count to 10 or imagine the film crew (like that idea) look at reward charts or something and tackle the tantrums differently. My 4 yo deserves better. Going to pick her up from mum's now, hug and cuddle her like I'll never let her go and tell her that she is my world and I love her so much.

here is the thing I used to make dd2's reward chart, she love's it and it's free!

Glittermum - don't feel bad, either. We have all been there! I hate to imagine the playback of my day sometimes - horrific.

The secrects of happy children is quite good on this stuff. I don't aree with everything in it and I think a lot of it is common sense, but I found it usefull in that it got me listening to myself and questioning my motives.

I tend to emotional blackmail style type parenting, and I hate it and work against it. Now I know about it anyway!

I think, given what I pick up on in your posts, it could be a good read for you. I found it usefull, but like all things, good pinch of salt and a reality check every 10 pages or so

I had and still do have a very close relationship with my mum - I was only thinking today how I hope my dd never remembers these episodes as I never remember my mum ever speaking to me in such a way....but then on speaking to my mum today, she says I was never anywhere near as naughty as my dd...so the provocation wasn't there. Apparantly, my dd is very similar to what my brother was like - mum did tear her hair out with him as he was such a handful - cheers bro - thanks for sharing out your difficult genes - they must have led dormant in me and come out in her!!!

" I do find myself saying some quite hurtful things like - go away, you make my life miserable, I don't want you anywhere near me etc etc "

Please don't say that.

When they are older there is nothing wrong with saying, as MIL put it 'I always love you, but sometimes it's hard to like the things that you do' - but calmly not in anger. And at the age of 4 she can't really help it. She needs strategies to handle her frustration. Someone wonderful recommended this. I can't say I have always managed to carry out the strategies in the book but it's given me a better insight into DS#2's feelings and moods. And the whole situation is less confrontational now.

mmm I know how you feel,I have a 4yo ds who likes to have frequent tantrums, and doesn't care where he has them. So I could also be the mum who gets the disapproving comments. Although they would have to be loud to be heard over the howls!

However, firstly ignore the old bats either they were very lucky or they have forgotten what it was like.

Secondly I have found ignoring the tantrum, effective and carrying on with whatever the plan was. Do not give in - it just makes the next one more prolonged. Dont give in just because you are in public - they pick up on this too.
In fact my tactic is to not feed the tantrum with any extra attention whatsoever. It's beginning to work. The tantrums are getting shorter. (does that count?)