Am I wrong to tell my child that sometimes she makes me feel miserable & that I want some time away from her?

[glittertum]

My 4 yo dd has always been a demanding handful. At the moment we are in the throes of full on screaming tantrums if she can't get her way - she had one in public yesterday and I overheard an onlooker comment she had never seen such a bad tantrum before . She was like a screaming she-devil and I had a job to handle her. We had another one this morning as I was trying to get her out the door for preschool and we were late - she wanted a certain pair of clip on earrings on - I hadn't a clue what earrings she was referring to, let alone have a clue where to start looking - so I said no, no time, got to go - cue tantrum - again . It's wearing me down and this morning I snapped big time. I turned into the screaming she-devil, I'm afraid - my screeching and screaming knew no bounds . We were late for preschool and she is now with my mum to give me some space. When I lose my rag with her I do find myself saying some quite hurtful things like - go away, you make my life miserable, I don't want you anywhere near me etc etc . Am I too harsh or is there no harm in letting them know at such a young age that their actions do have an impact on the wellbeing of those around them? Does anyone else say these things in the heat of the moment. I feel really bad - it does happen quite often. The flip side is I have no doubt my daughter knows how much I love her - i'm always telling her, like any other mum, I'd die the most painful death in the world for her, she is my child and my love knows no bounds - but she does get me down so much sometimes and I find myself being almost spiteful to her . I can't seem to control my outbursts of frustration. Am I a bad mum?

You being very cruel.

I just wanted to let you know that although I agree with everything that has been said about how you shouldn't say things like that to your daughter, I have done it to so you're not alone! Although it isn't right, I also believe that as long as it isn't being said a lot it won't do damage.

I have taken to walking away/hiding in a room/under a pillow/etc. and also lots of counting under my breath. I have found it also helps to talk to a close friend who won't judge when I feel rubbish about my apparent lack of parenting skills!

It isn't right to make our children feel as though they are responsible for our feelings, that's too much pressure for anyone, but don't beat yourself up over the occasional slip. I'm sure there are many more times you are a wonderful mum, we tend to linger on the times we aren't to beat ourselves up.

Oh, and she will grow out of it you just need to face the gale until she does

not sure if it will get you anywhere once a full-on tantrum is in progress, you have to step in quickish - but I read somewhere that you can warn a dc that you are about to get angry and this gives them a chance to withdraw from the conflict. Works well with my dd.

Like this:
mother: "dd I'm about to get very angry"
dc: "Are you angry now?"
mother: "no, I'm not angry yet but if you don't stop very soon, I am going to get angry".

Actually it works brilliantly with my dd. For one thing it distracts them a bit and for another they like the feeling of control I'd imagine, they can prevent you getting angry by stopping. My dd was 4 when I started doing that.

Yes, very wrong.

I'm sure we've all felt that way on our bad days but it's cruel to actually say it.

And yes, I'm sure she will remember it if said enough times.

Dittany - the genes comment was made slightly tongue in cheek....of course I'm not blaming it on genes...I'm not that narrowminded.

glittertum By acting this way infron of your dd, you are showing her that this is normal behaviour. We are modelling our children and they will copy what we do and the examples we set for them.
IMO, you need to show and teach her that anger is not the best way to deal with every situation. Yes we all get angry and frustrated and it's important our children learn this emotion, but they need to know that they are always always loved and nothing will take that away.

There really is no point in trying to reason with a tantruming toddler. They are far beyond reason once they've hit the full blown tantrum IME.
Whenevr my ds1 (who is 2.5) throws a big old tantrum, I just let him get on with it. As long as he cannot hurt himself, I find it's best just to let him get on with it and when he has calmed down he gets hugs, love and reassurances.

I think its okay to explain how your childs behaviour affects you, but done sensitively. Think what you said would be very upsetting for anyone, nevermind a 4 year old.
You obviously do need some time out, and thats also okay to want/need. But your daughter is 4 and she is behaving like a 4 year old.
It is hard being a Mum, and we all fuck up sometimes.
Try telling her that her tantrums upset you, and that it is much nicer spending time together when you are both happy. And pick your battles... its is easy to get stuck in a battle of wills when they are being little sods - give in to some of her requests if they aren't that big a deal.
As for the member of public making unhelpful comments, ignore them. Kids have tantrums.

FGS Dittany! My mum was just making an observation about my dd's behaviour - there is no getting away from it - her behaviour could be better - call it naughtly, unco-operative or whatever you like - and mum was just making an observation that at her age, I was a lot easier. That was the end of the conversation.

Maybe she was lucky with me - some people are, aren't they, that they get an 'easy' child whereas the majority of us get the norm - a difficult, tantrumming tot. This is the comparison mum was making. The issue here is how we deal with that tantrumming tot - everyone does it differently, some better than others. At the moment I am falling into the latter category and am trying to do something about it.

My mum was not implying that dd is in some way at fault for provoking the reaction in me she sometimes does - I have already acknowledged that I am in the wrong here, I know that and am not surprised that virtually every post is telling me this. I am not prepared to enter into a conflab about how my mum parented my brother - that's not the issue (by the way she did a fab job). My glib comment about genes and an innocent comment from mum seems to have been twisted into something sinister. FGS!!!!!

I don't think there's anything wrong in saying "your behaviour is upsetting me" to a child of any age.

Nor is there an issue with telling them to "go away" or "leave you alone" because their behaviour is bad. But probably better to walk away yourself. As in more effective

You are not wrong for feeling it. Or thinking it. Or telling us you feel it.

But it is very wrong and unfair to say it to your DD. Please don't.

I have two very spirited girls, DD2 (3½) is particularly difficult sometimes, her tantrums can probably be heard for miles, but no matter how cross I am with her, no matter how loud I shout (and I do shout and let her know how angry she is making me) I have never said anything like this. Ever!!

There are days I could quite happily walk away and check into a hotel for a weekend, just like that, but I would never tell them they make me miserable or that I don't want them near me. At 4 they are still very much babies, and will still be having tantrums and figuring out how life works. Don't teach her that she's a horrible creature that even her Mummy doesn't like.

I do tell mine that they are making me sad, or angry, or that they are being naughty. They do even get smacked sometimes, because I believe they do have to learn tat there are consequences to our actions, and that what we do affects others. But I don't ever tell them anything as hurtful or damaging as that.

And really, Pre-school? Pre-school? It's hardly life or death is it? My kids make me late for work, which is important, but I don't screech at them for being late for pre-school!!!

Dittany - yes, I am trying to work thro this otherwise I wouldn't have posted - all I'm saying is that the way I feel has nothing to do with the way my mum parented me or my brother or our family genes and that she was merely making an observation re dd's behaviour. I really think you've gone off track a bit, that's all. Please believe me, I'm fully aware that I have been out of order and i am taking it seriously and I do care. I'm not condoning my behaviour and I know it's wrong - but cut me some slack here - I've acknowledged it and am trying to do something about it.
Green - the fact that it was pre-school we were running late for wasn't really the issue. It was the fact that, yet again, I was saying no and she was saying yes - yes, I know it's what toddlers do, but hell, it's frustrating and on the back of yesterday's debarcle, I'd just had enough and snapped. I was just setting the scene - I agree, in the grand scheme of things, I couldn't give a flying f*k about being late for pre-schoolas it dosn't matter, it was more the principal - i'm just trying to instill in her the importance of "we really do have to be somewhere" because at some point, it will matter - we start school this year and i don't want to keep being late cos of some whim of hers just as we are going out the door. Surely, that's not a crime, is it? We have to live by principles and boundaries don't we - isn't it important to try our best to be on time and to do that sometimes we have to be firm - although I overstepped the mark this morning and that's the issue that needs addressing.

By the way - thanks to all for the recommended reading & i love the star chart - will deffo be giving that a go.

Def give this a try, although it isn't all sense, and alot is entirely obvious - it is good for looking at our motives, kids motives, and generally trying to see where we are all coming from.

Totally agree that it's not okay to say that she is making you miserable and should go away (and obviously you know this anyway or you wouldn't have posted) but as someone else said above, you can take this emotion and make it your emotion/reaction not her problem, IYSWIM. So instead of saying 'you go away and I don't like you' you can say 'What you are doing is making me very cross so I am going to go away into the other room until you have stopped because I don't like feeling cross with you'. So it is her responsibility to take control of her behaviour and stop doing the naughty thing that you don't like but it's also making it positive in a way. Because I don't suppose that she likes you feeling cross with her any more than you like feeling cross and she would probably like it to stop, too. You can also maybe say 'What you are doing is making me feel very cross and I can see that it isn't making you happy either so can you help me to think of a way for us both to feel better?'

I know this probably sounds a bit too based on reason/slightly wishy washy for a preschooler but it is what I do with a three year old and appealing to her rational side has amazing effects much more often than not. For a start, it makes her start using the bit of her brain that likes to solve a problem (and children are basically tiny scientists who spend their whole lives investigating cause and effect and what happens if etc) instead of the WANT WANT WANT bit.

You are not a bad mum. If you were, you would not be questioning yourself in this way.

im my experience children are little sponges that pick up all your feelings. so if you're cross, they become cross. if you're happy they are happy. my eldest daughter had tantrums from hell and i used to get REALLY stressed about them - which i think made it worse. now, several children down the road for me, if one has a tantrum i just ignore them or walk away (largely because i'm too busy to be distracted by their bad behaviour). and none of my subsequent children have been had bad tantrums more than a couple of times. i think you have a to take a deep breath and stay calm. easier said than done of course. and of course you're not a bad mum or you wouldn't be worrying about it at all!

Glittertum Ok, I see your point.

I wonder if it's worth talking to your HV or GP about it. Not for help with her behaviour, because it's within normal "limits" for children of this age, but for help and support for you to cope with it. Have you suffered with depression before? Do you think you might be now? You know you overstepped the mark, so you know that you shouldn't be saying this to her, but perhaps you need a bit of support to actually address the problem you are having at the moment?

I still remember some of the horrible stuff my mum used to say to me. I don't say things like she said ( and you have said) to my daughter as I don't want her to suffer from low self esteem and depression in her adult life. She might have a tendency towards tantrums because she is highly sturng like you, but surely she has also learnt the beheaviour from you.

I would say to just let her tantrum away and remove yourself from the room if you can or just turn away from her. Say nothing Anything you say to her (even out of anger) is only adding fuel to the fire and is perhaps making her feel quite worried about your feelings for her.

There is no point to say 'you make me miserable' just think it to yourself if you have to. You're the grown-up and you need to act like it.

But there is nothing wrong with saying to her 'Your behaviour is unacceptable' or 'I don't like your behaviour' then walk away.

Try and really praise her when she's good or makes an effort.

Feed the good and starve the bad (behaviour, that is!!)

Your dd is 4, she is beyond the toddler stage. What you say will stick with her. Hopefully you tell her you love her at other times rather than just when you are 'making up' when she has been naughty.

Ime 4 yr olds can feel very insecure. When does she start school? You may well find her behaviour is worse for a while when she starts school. Ds's first half term in reception was a nightmare and I found his behaviour challenging to say the least. It would never have occurred to me to tell him he was making my life miserable (even when his behaviour did make me very sad indeed).

Have you thought of going to anger management classes?
Maybe you could book planned time away from DD for yourself. Me and OH both have personal time booked, usually a half day once a fortnight. That would be better than having to have time away because of a blow out.