OK - Had enough. What do I do with dd2

[treedelivery]

Bit long but don't want to Op by stealth.

This concerns my dd2 [1yo] sleep patterns.

DD1 took quite a bit of training really. We did pick up put down, she was never left to cry, but we never coslept and she always always slept in her cot. It took months and moths of sitting in her room, in the dark, eating bread and butter for dinner. We did it though and she is now a really good sleeper who enjoys her bed.

DD2 started crying at birth and never stopped. SHe spent 6 weeks sleeping wither on me, on boob, on Dh shoulder, or in bed with us. It is true. She maybe had less than 10 independant sleeps.

We went on to discover at 6 months she is really quite badly dairly intolerant. She was screaming in agony and I am glad we gave her the physical attention she needed to cope.

So the child pretty much spent the first 6 months of her life in agony. Poo was agony, wind was asony, burping made her shake, it was awful. Really truly awful. She was hardly ever put down becasue she cried. I had to hold her when I was on the loo, cooking, cleaning...driving made your ears bleed. Truly I am not laying it on thick. I have witnesses!! She once screamed for 3.5 hours in the car, once for 2.5 - and often for and hour as my family is an hour away.

So now here we are. Now about 6 months pain free due to dairy free diet and formula [stopped bfing in sept at 8 months]

She will sleep nowhere but in our arms or in our bed - but even then cuddled in. We are starting to see a bit of routine, which is an improvement.

up 6.30 to 9am, but need to be woken at 7.30am for school run.
Starts chuntering and demanding to be held about 8am
Back from school run and goes to sleep on my chest about 9.30-10.00am.
I sit with her asleep till about 11.30-12.00noon
[If I move or put her down she wakes up within about 2 mins]
Lunch
Sleep in same way about 1pm
Wake her 2.30pm for school run [by moving out of bed and putting her down].

If we go out in the day she might go to sleep in the pushchair after a few hours. Only until it stops moving, then she is up again.

2.30-6.00pm spent trying to feed her and dd1, playing with dd1 etc. She chunters and follows me about, or cries to be held.

DH gets in at 6.00. He takes dd1 and does bed. I take dd2 to bed and she sleeps on me.

7.30-8 I'm starving and put her down to eat/wsh up/laundry, so she wakes up

Up till 10-01.00 am overtired and unable to settle.

Wakes on and off overnight, but usually cuddles back in and drifts off.

Now this is better, because at least there is a pattern. But it does need...er.....tweaking.

What would you do?

Up at about 50 mins in.

She did ok really, she stirred, coughed, and doozed off. Then gave one of those huge jerks, still doozy, then dd1 turned up to tell me about a dream - so that was that. She might have gone on and slept though.

She's been up and cried and fought me, so I have put her back in. We'll see.

fantastic!

..did she do a second cycle?

x posts 120. SHe has gone to dh and seems more content with him.

Might get her calm and zen like then sling her back in the swing and pray.

Ohhh, promising.

I had one of those last night at 2am
"Mum! Mum! I'm all wet!"
Got up to deal with dd's bedwetting nightmare, and ds had woken up and was trying to climb into our bed . took an hour for us all to get back to sleep, after dh decided to go and sleep in spare room (while we stole the double) but forgot we didn't have any bedding there. And ds lay awake madly for ages

best of luck x

praying with you tree! sounds like you are on your way though.

Fantastic!!!

Tree I have read all out of sisterhood!
You know we have been there with S but I am a mean mummy and did CC. It worked for us but tbh she is in a league of her own and I imagine would fight you all the way. S was the same though and had no idea how to settle himself back to sleep. We tried everything first to teach him but in the end he has to wokr it out for himself. Day sleep is still pretty much non exsistent here unless in the pushchair but most nights he goes until at least 5 which sounds horrific to some but is amazing to us.
Hooray for the swing. If it works get one for every room in the house with extensions to last her until she is 18!

How was last night Tree?

good luck

Yay Tree! So pleased the swing worked for you. Dd is sleeping in hers right this minute hence my having time to come on here.

this pushchair rocker is the one I've heard good things about. They show it being used with a three wheeler and I vaguely remember you have a powertrack or summat similar don't you. Actually, they show it being used with dd's pushchair on the home page. Its pricey, but might be worth every penny if she'll sleep in the pushchair, as someone else said, she'll fit in that much longer than the swing. Although she's such a dot I'm sure she'll get lots of use out a swing.

We weaned dd off needing the swinging motion by slowly going down through the speeds and then starting to switch it off when she was in a deep sleep. She doesn't tend to need the swinging motion anymore unless she is overtired or overstimulated and can't settle easily. I'm sure doing this helped her to get used to settling herself in her cot as she falls asleep within 10-15 minutes most times when we put her in her cot these days.

That said, I still find it useful to ramp the swing up to full speed if I know I need her to stay asleep while I get something done

tree I still have this graco swing that N grew out of at about 8 weeks . Same one that Moosey has. It's yours until and if I ever get around to having another if you want it? I'm sure courier cost would only be a tenner. I think it's good up to 10kg and takes rechargeable batteries. FB me if you'd like it x

Tree - DS2 has only just started sleeping more reliably (now 2.5yo), but the "kiss to sleep" approach really helped (I have c&p on lots of other threads about it). It takes about 1-2wks to make a new sleep routine, but it really works. PUPD just seemed to get him wound up even more.

DH had to implement the new routine initially as DS2 just wanted mummy all the time and wouldn't settle for me.

DS2 still gets up on his feet the moment his eyes open, but at least it is much easier to settle him now and it happens far far less than it used to.

I hope you get it sorted soon - it really is the worst thing I have ever experienced.

Hi everyone. Have I said thank you to everyone enough? No! Thank you!

am knackered, but we are getting there.dd2 was in bed with us from 1am, but in her swing till then.

It's the cycles, she wakes at the end of a cycle. GP tomorrow to see if has any ideas, i.e. piriton.

MissJ - you are a total star. We have a fisherprice one that was £25 half price from Argos, so slightly less classy . It works well in my daft 3 story house as it's quite movable. Thank you so so so much though. Lol at Nye growing out if his so quickly. My only slight concern is ours has quite a seat to it, so she is a bit scrunched up. I'm not that concerned though!

Am going to look into your kiss to sleep in the morning washersaurus. Thank you for posting on this big mamma of an op thread.

Veeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry tempted by one of those rocker things. Kinda wishing didn't sell Amby now It might have been just the biz.

Was thinking the same Moose, moving down through the speeds then maybe even putting the whole thing in the cot. WIll see how we go.

She is one at 8.28 am. Imagine if she slept till then to celebrate..............

Happy Birthday H!

Fantastic to hear progress is being made.

Good luck at the GPs.

It's in 40 mins. Am wringing my hands a bit.

If he offers me ad's I know I'll cry. Then he'll prob call ss and I'll be in a fine old pickle!

I do find it hard to get taken seriously y'know?

Oh Tree, wish I could come with you and hold your hand. Not that I'm much better at standing up for myself to be honest.

Let us know how it goes.

Just a teeny tiny offering from me, since everyone else has given such brilliant advice.

Luckily for me ds2 is a good sleeper on the whol, but when he was younger and a bit restless we were advised to put a cuddly toy or muslin cloth or something similar smelling of us in his cot for him to cuddle. So DH and I duly stuck a cuddly toy down our tops for an hour or so and put them in ds2's cot with him. It seemed to comfort him and made things a bit easier- he was reassured by it.

Anyway. The very best of luck with everything.

Thanks Shodan. We are trying to encourage a bond beyween dd and her cuddle things. So far she tends to throw them at us, but we keep at it. I will take one to bed with us too. She has some sleep associations with her blanket. Which means she screams and body pops any time it comes near here

Right, GP. Went with dh which was the Right Thing To DO. GP is lovely. Looked a bit baffeld when we stated our complaint, and we all giggled at the general 'what do you want me to do about it' pregnant pause.

After discussions, GP suggested Toddler Taming. Also gave us a sedative for a week. He had to research it and email various people as there is nothing in the BNF or MIMS for this age.

So we have the med for a week, to see if we can break the cycle of waking, and to see if a new 'normal' can be achieved.
So lets see!!!!!!

Do you mean the book 'Toddler Taming' Tree? If so do you have a copy? I can lend you mine if not, can post it with your nappy which I am deeply in love with. (Is it okay to declare love for a nappy on this thread without people thinking I'm weird?? )

I think you should go for it with the sedatives, even if it feels odd (and I think I would have major doubts myself over whether right thing etc.), it might give you all enough restbite to make a plan going forwards, and as you say start a new normal.

Are you reviewing with the GP sometime?

Once you've had a couple of nights proper sleep it might be a lot easier to identify patterns in DD's behaviour and your responses and see if you can tweak a few things.

Hi lenni.

It is quite normal to declare love for a nappy. It is 6the others^ who are odd.

We have given the sedative. She woke up 47 mins later Got to love the determination.

I gave her a cuddle, ad she was really asking for one, put her back in swing, and she laid there looking suspicious and has just dropped off.

One year old today, this is her first drug induced self soothe.

we have 7 days worth, he wants to see us in 2 weeks. He was concerned that the sleep training methods woul dbe too hard on her as she is still a little bubba really, and said that maybe a week of easy sleep might be a good thing all round.

He is a nice bloke really, gentle.

It feels utterly wrong. But then so does iving her that awful prescription formula. I'm used to feeling a bit wrong in this house.

So I'm delighted at the self soothe progress. I just ca't be jubilant as I feel I have tricked her, or betrayed her, or something.

Sleep though. Sounds very very very good. we are especially tired at the mo.

HA! It will take more than a mild sedative to quench my daughter. She is up and playing with a noisy bright plastic bit of blah.

Maybe elephant sedative would have been better?

Tree, just posted on the PN thread. You are absolutely not tricking or betraying her, you are helping her. She really NEEDS this and so do you.

I'm sure she'll settle when the sedative has properly taken effect AND as soon as she does, get yerself straight off to bed woman. No late night mnetting for you m'girl. [stern moose face emoticon]

Tree - the foulula wouldn't be consumed if she didn't think it was ok would it? Just trying to ease the guilt.

Hope she is sleeping now.

Good luck with the piriton. Not sure if others 'suggested' it too, but it's what our GP prescribed for my non-sleeping DS at about 14 mths (did mention earlier I think). It sort of worked - not the first night but better nights 2 and 3. He still didn't sleep through as in 12 hrs (like DD!!!) but did at least 5hr chunks, which was better.

Toddler Taming is, I think, Controlled Crying which doesn't suit everyone (I have the book!)

I don't know anything about your background, but was your daughter premature? I know that can profoundly affect sleep cycles. Is she walking or anything yet? DS became a much better sleeper once he was physically active and therefore just plain knackered after literally running around the park. 2 nights ago he slept for 13 hrs which I would never ever have believed a year ago!!!

Good luck

No mn since Fri as been in party hell heaven and dd turned one. So many tea parties and house parties, plus dd1's own social calendar to navigate.

Hello penoma.
Dd was not a prem, but she did suffer a great deal of disturbance and pain for the first 5-6 months of her life. I have often said to dh that she is like a premature baby in many ways, she 'handled' really badly. Hated being touched and dressed and bothered. SHe has no sleep routine or even enjoyment of sleep to speak of.
It really feels good to have someone else say this to me, as I have thought it so many times. SO no, not premature, but maybe has some things in common with a premature baby.

So, 3rd night of meds. No miracle. She is asleep in her rocker though, and not on me. SO the Moosey miracle goes on. Am underwhelmed by the piriton so far, but heartened to hear that it took a few nights to work for you too penona.

Thank you for popping in people, it is nice to hear the virtual hugs and sympathy, and good sense.