OK - Had enough. What do I do with dd2

[treedelivery]

Bit long but don't want to Op by stealth.

This concerns my dd2 [1yo] sleep patterns.

DD1 took quite a bit of training really. We did pick up put down, she was never left to cry, but we never coslept and she always always slept in her cot. It took months and moths of sitting in her room, in the dark, eating bread and butter for dinner. We did it though and she is now a really good sleeper who enjoys her bed.

DD2 started crying at birth and never stopped. SHe spent 6 weeks sleeping wither on me, on boob, on Dh shoulder, or in bed with us. It is true. She maybe had less than 10 independant sleeps.

We went on to discover at 6 months she is really quite badly dairly intolerant. She was screaming in agony and I am glad we gave her the physical attention she needed to cope.

So the child pretty much spent the first 6 months of her life in agony. Poo was agony, wind was asony, burping made her shake, it was awful. Really truly awful. She was hardly ever put down becasue she cried. I had to hold her when I was on the loo, cooking, cleaning...driving made your ears bleed. Truly I am not laying it on thick. I have witnesses!! She once screamed for 3.5 hours in the car, once for 2.5 - and often for and hour as my family is an hour away.

So now here we are. Now about 6 months pain free due to dairy free diet and formula [stopped bfing in sept at 8 months]

She will sleep nowhere but in our arms or in our bed - but even then cuddled in. We are starting to see a bit of routine, which is an improvement.

up 6.30 to 9am, but need to be woken at 7.30am for school run.
Starts chuntering and demanding to be held about 8am
Back from school run and goes to sleep on my chest about 9.30-10.00am.
I sit with her asleep till about 11.30-12.00noon
[If I move or put her down she wakes up within about 2 mins]
Lunch
Sleep in same way about 1pm
Wake her 2.30pm for school run [by moving out of bed and putting her down].

If we go out in the day she might go to sleep in the pushchair after a few hours. Only until it stops moving, then she is up again.

2.30-6.00pm spent trying to feed her and dd1, playing with dd1 etc. She chunters and follows me about, or cries to be held.

DH gets in at 6.00. He takes dd1 and does bed. I take dd2 to bed and she sleeps on me.

7.30-8 I'm starving and put her down to eat/wsh up/laundry, so she wakes up

Up till 10-01.00 am overtired and unable to settle.

Wakes on and off overnight, but usually cuddles back in and drifts off.

Now this is better, because at least there is a pattern. But it does need...er.....tweaking.

What would you do?

my ds is also dairy allergic and very similar sleep pattern. we give him oatmilk and bifidabacterium infantis powder too.

anyway we co sleep (me and ds) and dh sleeps in another room.

all i can say is poor you. you will get through it. ds is 2 now, still wakes up alot but less so and just needs a cuddle usually.

have you tried cranio osteopathy ?

Ooh poor you. I always try and reply to the sleep problems as they were (still are) my very worst thing. A few thoughts to share:

I went to my GP when DS was 17 mths as he hadn't slept a full night for months and I couldn't function any more (have twins and DD slept fine!). She prescribed a sedative for him, and for me. Only for 2 weeks - so we could all have some sleep and then decide what to do. I am not proud, but it did work, and gave me the strength to do something. (It was Piriton, an anti-histamine).

I co-slept for a few months, double mattress on the floor in his room. It was a bit dull but it worked. He just wanted me close (not being held though).

My sister had bad sleep problems with her child. She needed holding to sleep, but was able to sneak her into the cot if she put her down on her front - not her back. If she has had tummy problems, maybe she likes the comfort of sleeping on her tummy as she lies on you, rather than on her back? Is a thing to try, and she is old enough not to suffocate etc now.

Good luck. I am amazed you sound so rational. I was going insane!!

Tree - yes I do think it was a lot to do with him maturing but also just gradually tweaking his routine and sticking with the bits that work!! And I actually think that the slow/gentle approach is what he needed and is paying off a little bit now.
The best thing we did was get the double mattress. I had been attempting to get him to nap on his mattress for a while,
half heartedly, but it didn't really work until he just dropped down to one nap a day after lunch. Initially he went for a half hour, I comforted him and he did another hour. He did that for about a week and now I am fairly confident that he will go for about an hour and a half without waking up. I can even make a stew! My God!
People do think it's a bit odd the mattress thing but it is also nice to have the soft area of the room where we can just sit and read stories and roll about
Wishing you all the very best and I do hope that your dd will get the hang of the sleep thing soon!

Ok. Have had a cuppa and a sarnie and dh has dd and is sat in the lounge in the dark with her. Bless him.
She has slept on her front since waaaaay back. With her head under my chin. Sleeps on her side on our arm in bed.

Making appointment in the morning.

Seeing Chiro anyway, so will ask her about the cranial. She was talking about it not long ago.

Will ponder the mattress thing too. DD2 was to share with dd1, so that kind of complicates things as we haven't a room for her. But I can tweak that.

Thank you all so so so much. This has really really helped.

I'm a bit frightened of going to the GP and getting fobbed off. Maybe I should bring a print out of this thread

If you're cosleeping, what happens if/when you need a wee in the night? I mean, can you ease yourself out of the bed without her noticing?

If so, it might be worth trying a mattress on the floor, or a big floor cushion, then you can lie down and hold her while she sleeps and then sneak away.

I feel for you, tree. My daughter is thirteen months, her sleep has never been good but it's nowhere near as bad as what you're dealing with. You and your husband sound so lovely and strong, your daughters are lucky little girls to have you.

Tree this sounds horrible!
I had a similar issue with my DS due to dairy intolerance and reflux.
What we did was:
co-slept (often with me holding DS's hand continually) - this lasted until he was about 17 months, then
own cot and months of "gradual withdrawal".
So I'd literally bend over the cot holding him for a while, then gradually hand holding, then gradually sitting by the cot, then gradually moving the chair away - you get the idea.
I often slept the night on his floor with my arm shoved through the cot rails - not comfy!

I remember this time as the very worse in all my life!

He's now just over 2 and sleeps like a dream!
I personally wouldn't consider medication - but then I am a SAHM with no work pressures.

Tree - are you going today? Keep up your momentum on this, you probably feel better for a bit of MN therapy but you definately need to start work on a plan.

Tree - just wanted to add my good luck. Would have lost it a long time ago!

However, I just want to reassure you too. I'm on the other side of sleep issues now. Just keep repeating to yourself when it gets bad, that this isn't forever and one day you'll be missing those cuddles!

Thank you all so much.

gargula - I know what you mean. Medication sounds so to me too, and not my style. But then I really don't see an end to it. ANd my heart breaks for dd1 who needs some of me too. It's hard this bit. I want to nuture them both, but I think to do that I am going to need to have some better sort of sleep system. Your gradual withdrawal sounds very patient, what if I haven't got it in me!!!

We have made an appt for Friday afternoon, Dh can come to if he legs it home after work. So we will discuss with GP. So am mindful to keep up momentum like you say Lenni.

tortoiseonthehalfshell - sometimes if she is in a really deep sleep she will not notice, but mostly she will wake up, stand up, adn bop about. Then start headbuting dh for cuddles and lying on his face.

She spent a fair proportion of last night asleep across my throat It was like having a very heavy scarf on.

Today somesort of revolution has taken place and she has slept in her pushcahair for 2 hours. I felt more cheerful today, as a result of this thread.

Yay! Pushchair sleep amazing! Was she moving or stationary? If she can do 2 hours that is 3 sleep cycles (I think ??) so she can do it

Tree - I can promise you 100% you have it in you, you wouldn't have got this far if you didn't.

Moving, so I yhink that is why we got through the sleep cycles.

She had a really swollen head when she woke up, and her hair all stuck up. She looked so bemused. She has never really had such long sleeps, except on a few random occasions.

Yes, I know that bemused expression. DD (at 3) still has that if she ever falls asleep in the daytime. She never did daytime sleep - gave up naps entirely at 15mo but wanted to give up from about 4 weeks. That was reflux caused though I think.

What is DD1's routine in the evenings? I know you said your DH 'does bed' but what does he actually do? Is there anyway H could join in with the bedtime thing? We divide and conquer too but since I stopped bf last week we've swapped over a couple of times and it is refreshing even if neither of my little beggars will go to sleep easily! Nice to have a different battle.

Tree, honestly, if she will sleep that long in a moving pram, try the swing for naps. They are an absolute godsend. Ours also has a heartbeat function, which might help her with the transition from sleeping on your chest. I also find that once dd is asleep and swinging, the clip clop sound of the swing tends to keep her asleep and blocks out any noises that might otherwise disturb her.

We have this one and I would recommend it to anyone without hesitation.

You can get pushchair rockers, def worth a try.

cgi.ebay.co.uk/Baby-Dream-Machine-Baby-Portable-Pushchair-Rocker_W0QQitemZ330396406669QQcmdZViewItem QQptZLHDefaultDomain3?hash=item4ced29138d

I've a different one too

Moosey miracle

Yah for you!

Your dd has almost the same shade of red hair that I had at that age, mine is darker now but still very much red IYSWIM

Could be worth trying the pushchair rocker because she'll fit in a pushchair longer than the swing.

Def try cranial osteopath.

Right.

Mum wanted to get one of those actually, I am seriously pondering it.

But I think first funds should go onthe journey and payment to see the cranial person. I have that in motion too, our chiro knows someone who has baby and child experience.

She had a feel of dd2 today and said her pelvis is way out. Actually I could feel it myself. She is seeing her Monday. She did a little release on her.

Oh I wonder if that's why she sleeps???? Ahhhhh!!!!!

On hair - has yours darkened SleighGirl. I sort of thought this was so strong a colour it might be a keeper. Mine has gone dark too.

You've taken the photo off hmmm what is your email addy and I'll send you a link to a photo of me, it's def very red still but not as carroty as when I was very young.

frequentflyerplus at yahoo dot co dot uk

It's been about 45 mins. 46 in fact [not that I'm counting]

Will she go through a sleep cycle? There are sucks and irregular breathing type stirs going on............

don't rush in as soon as she stirs wait and see if she settles herself back to sleep.

Those dream machine things seem quite cheap 2nd hand on ebay, there were 2 on at the moment.

Treedelivery - I think you are a totally lovely mother. Your poor little dd! And jeez, poor you - I get all emotional thinking of you sitting with her asleep on you because she is too upset to sleep anywhere else except with her Mama.

but, have always felt, the time to change is when you are getting fed up - and sounds like you have some excellent advice here. Sleeping in moving pram def progress - my dd used to wake after 27 minutes, moving or not ...

Couple of bits (apologies if people have said these already)

-with ds I lay down with him and sorta pulled him back down to learn how to lie down to sleep. Obviously, he didn't have the medical issues and wasn't so cry-y but very damn wriggly! Would do lots of hands on tummy and 'cuddling in' as someone said and then pretty much ignore him til he went to sleep (holding hands to stop the fingers up nose), this was about 12-14mths as I stopped the bf to sleep.

-play games during day about/on beds and her cot if she has one, eg lying in them and pretending to go to sleep, putting toys to bed etc. Make it all a big fun Ha ha peekaboo game and nothing to do with actually going to sleep... I am convinced this has worked in making bed not so scary for my (mostly co-sleeping at first) two.

(fingers crossed you are still here and haven't had to race off...)

Go Tree! Go H! Go Moose!

Off for a bath, but will check back in to see how she manages. Cranial osteo sounds like very good first step on the plan - we saw one with DD after her horror birth and it did help.

OOI - What are you going to do when she wakes?