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Our CARBON MONOXIDE LEAK incident and how we might have just died if I didn't have that unit..

39 replies

milkmonster · 28/12/2009 19:41

I bought a CO (Carbon Monoxide) detector last week as I have a working woodburner in the sitting room, having recently found out burning wood and coal can give off poisonous CO if not efficient.

Two nights ago I'd had the burner going all evening, my toddler and baby fell asleep downstairs as usual and I took them up to bed still asleep around 2am.

Ten minutes after putting them to bed (we all sleep in the same bedroom), the CO alarm went off. I always take the alarm up to bed with me.

I rang the gas emergency number on the alarm unit and they advised me to open all windows, vacate the bedroom, and wait for the engineer to visit within the hour.

The engineer duly arrived and condemned the gas central heating boiler and the woodburner, as a precaution, because he wasn't qualified to measure the CO levels or their source, they just arrive to close down all fuel sources for safety.

He advised me that because our bedroom is above the sitting room where the woodburner is, it's likely the chimney is unlined and/or there's a blockage or fault in the chinmey or flue, as I mentioned that smoke wisps escape from either side of the chimney breast when the burner's lit and he commented that the smoke smell is particularly heavy everywhere in the house, even outside, despite fact burner had died down to embers hours previously.

I also explained all three of us had very bad coughs for weeks which I'd put down to winter colds, also that I did experience slight giddiness if I closed my eyes whilst standing upright in the bedroom, which I'd also dismissed as tiredness.
Then I learn these can be symptoms of Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

Because he had no meters to measure the CO present, I have no idea whether we would allhave died in our sleep or not if I hadn't taken the alarm up with me...nor whether the coughs are slow poisoning from the CO, as our bed is right next to the chimney breast. The gas man said CO leaks through brickwork and floorboards and can even pass through into your neighbour's house because of this.

I live in private rented property. I can't touch the condemned appliances so we have those little mobile radiators and a fan heater (which are all very expensive to run), luckily still have hot water as it's heated electrically.

However, I can't cook on the gas hob nor dry clothes, which with a 6 month old baby in nappies you can imagine I get trhough a lot of babygros! I couldn't afford to run a tumble dryer even if I had one (I am not working and claiming INcome Support, the children's father is absent and does not support financially except for £5 a week CSA deductions, we left him because of DV).

The landlord seems bemused that, in his words, I "bothered initiating this whole process" that is he wonders why I called out the gas emergency number when the alarm went off. It's as if he doesn't believe me, he keeps stating he's lived with open fires for 20 years and never had CO, and that adequate ventilation in the bedroom would have prevented this incident. My bedroom door is ajar, but I don't leave a window open at night when it's -1 outside and there's a baby in the bedroom

If it turns out the chinmey is unlined, or there's a fault in the flue fitting, then is he liable for negligence?

Even the letting agents said it's my responsibility as the tenant to ensure the chinmey is swept before using the woodburner, which one online site contradicts, but surely the burner is an appliance the same as the boiler or fridge or oven, so if it's there to be used, it should be in safe, useable condition as part of the letting agreement?

The landlord says he can't get gas man in to check the CO source and reconnect the gas until 4th Jan, so I have a week of no central heating and it's due to snow again tomorrow! He might be correct, it's Chrsitmas holidays after all, but do you think I can make my own efforts to book a man then have him Invoice the landlord?

My tenancy renewal is due on 15th January 2010 and I don't want to upset the apple cart, although both landlord and letting agents are polite I have a feeling there's a negligence liability issue at stake. Plus the landlord will have to pay the costs for the repair man to come out, when the landlord thinks that couldhave been avoidable, ie why did I ring the emergency gas people when the alarm sounded..but what else was I supposed to do? Think oh yees, there's lethal Carbon Monoxide fumes in our bedroom where we were just sleeping, I'll just let a bit of air in then go back to sleep...surely the SOURCE of the CO needs to be found and eliminated or at least confirmed that it's the burner, not the boiler, in which case emergency HAS to come out?

Even the children's father has said I'm 'making trouble' by organising my own repair man (I just don't want to wait another week with no heating or gas hob) and by questioing my letting agent and landlord over whether the chimney's lined or not.

Ultimately, the alarm unit detected CO in the bedroom. If I had no alarm, depending on the levels present, all 3 of us could have died in our sleep. I don't know whether I'm underplaying the incident in my head, or if I need to be better informed and start demanding checks and repairs and reconnections immediately instead of 'next week sometime'.

I'm too scared to sleep in the room, it gives me the willies now.

Any views would be gratefully welcomed.

OP posts:
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ln1981 · 28/12/2009 19:53

I dont really have much advice for you but i just wanted to say that i think that you were quite right to call the emergency engineer. we had a family friend die from co poisoning a few years ago so its something that im always mindful of myself. At rhe end of the day, your families health is your priority and i cant believe that the landlord thinks that you are making a fuss about nothing. what if you had died? As far as i can see, he would have blood on his hands. All the appliances in rented housing must be safe for use and regularly tested, and i would think that ultimately he would have been liable.

I would be tempted to keep on at him about trying to get someone out, as its hell with no heating with wee ones in the house.

Hopefully someone might be able to give you more practical advice and who knows a wee bit more about this. Hope it gets sorted soon.

GoodKingWhatFreshHellLookedOut · 28/12/2009 20:05

It's a legal requirement for landlords to have a safety certificate for all gas appliances in rented property, and to have them serviced every year. Do you know if your boiler has one of these?

Also, I think he has a duty to ensure the house is fit for habitation, and that means that the heating and hot water must work. Can you contact Citizens Advice to see what they advise?

You are absolutely right to make a fuss about this, it's dangerous and deeply worrying. Good Luck.

JackTheHallsWithBauersOfHolly · 28/12/2009 20:12

OH poor you, I know how you feel. When I was in Spain we bought an alarm that we thought was faulty as i went off teverywhere we plugged it in.
We called the engineer who found dangerously high levele sof CO, only the fact that we were british and slept with all the windows open saved us.
We were so scared, and our landlord was furious that we had called out someone instead of hima nd his friend to have a look.

What we did find was that once the appliance is off th danger is past, it is bloody scary but although there may be some residue there won't be anymore so you should eb safe enough in your rooms.

Having said that I would still be bricking it, have you tried calling british gas or someone similar to ask about safety now the appliances are off? They might be more reassuring.

I would insist on having someone out befire then though, whetehr you pay for it and take him to small claims court if you can? He is being a twat thinking that you are being silly (and your DC's fatehr is too for that matter)

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brimfull · 28/12/2009 20:15

have just ordered a co2 alarm

thanks for the warning

Facebookaddict · 28/12/2009 20:23

Buying one tmrw. Best of luck... Where do you live? Hate to think of anyone living with no heating....

CMOTdibbler · 28/12/2009 20:24

I know someone with permanent neurological damage from CO poisoning - it very nearly killed her, and was touch and go for some weeks - so I don't think you are overreacting at all.

memorylapse · 28/12/2009 20:51

you are not overeacting co2 poisoning can be fatal..any appliance that burns fuel can give off co2..that includes open fires..oil burners etc.
your LL should have a gas safety certificate for any gas appliance and its the duty of the LA to ensure this is in place...with regard to the wood burner..yes its your responsibility to ensure the chimney is swept..thois needs doing twice a year...but its the LL responsibility to ensure that the chimney and appliance are in good working order.

re the repair..the LL/LA are duty bound to arrange repair within a reasonable time frame..its unacceptable to leave you until 4th Jan if you have no way of heating water..the LA should have companies on their books who can come out as an emergency..between now and thursday are normal working days for most and many gas engineers will have an emergency call out service.
open the windows and ventilate the rooms and this will get rid of the co2..do not light the woodburner or boiler until both have been checked..your LL attitude is rather blase to say the least as he could have easiliy had blood on his hands by now...speak to the LA about the gas safety certificate..
contact shelter for further advice re potentially taking action against your LL if neither appliance have been properly maintained..

Facebookaddict · 28/12/2009 20:59

Good advice memory was hoping someone could offer it up as poor OP's tale is haunting me...

milkmonster · 28/12/2009 21:06

Remember that CO is poisonous Carbon Monoxide, CO2 is Carbon Dioxide.

Some alarm units have either or both detectors.

CO2 isn't really an issue in the home.

OP posts:
milkmonster · 28/12/2009 21:11

Tenants are not responsible for sweeping chimneys, it's the landlord's obligation.

With all due respect, some replies are not reading the whole opening post (sorry, I know it's really long! ) but there's some very important errors to highlight, one being the important dilfference between

CO = Carbon Monoxide = poisonous
CO2= Carbon Dioxide = not a domestic issue, we breath this in and out as part of our atmosphere, although obviously in pure form it's lethal, but it's not found in any home appliances.

OP posts:
ABetaDad · 28/12/2009 21:15

You are not over reacting.

Go to you local council's housing office immediatley. Many have a specially designated person in charge of private tenanted housing and especially for vulnerable tenants with children. Tell them what happened and you are livng without heat and the CO danger you detected. Tell them your LLs response. This is extremely serious. My local council would take action against the LL immediately.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 28/12/2009 21:20

Agree with ABeta.

The Council should have an on-call/emergency number.

ChloeHandbag · 28/12/2009 21:24

I am about to rent out my house and I have two woodburners. I was advised by my letting agent that I should have the chimneys swept prior to letting the property and that it would then be tenants responsibility to do the same at the end of their tenancy or once a year. Although it's not compulsory I was told that if I didn't do it and there was a subsequent chimney fire then it would be my responsibility.

I also had British Gas out to do a check on the gas central heating and was advised by the engineer to buy a CO2 detector. Again I was told that I ought to get one so I wouldn't be responsible for any potential death due to CO2 (obviously I'll get one).

I think your landlord is trying it on, he should have maintained the woodburners and provided the monitor.

milkmonster · 28/12/2009 21:25

I'm amazed at how little public awareness of Carbon Monoxide poisoning there is, considering how innate it is in our homes. You hear the odd story on the news like a family dying in their sleep abroad in their holiday chalet due to faulty pipes or a pensioner falling asleep in front of the gas fire, but rarely the facts that what most people dont realise is it's not just gas central heating boilers but open fires, woodburners, paraffin heaters, in fact any appliance that burns solid or fossil fuels. I certainly didn't know until recently.

It pays to be informed, I also found out that MDF which a lot of baby cots are made from, contains urea-formaldehyde which can cause lung and respiratory problems. ...
'Cot Death Syndrome' I've always felt is a bit of a conspiracy, that someone knows full well the whole truth but those multi-million pound manufacturing companies contribute to the government's (currently depleted) coffers...

What does the Biscuit Smiley mean??

OP posts:
memorylapse · 28/12/2009 21:26

I meant to put CO..pregnancy brain..
it is usually the tenants responsibility to keep chimneys swept..but servicing of gas boilers must be carried out by the LL

milkmonster · 28/12/2009 21:26

CO is CARBON MONOXIDE

CO2 is CARBON DIOXIDE

Big difference!

OP posts:
Cammelia · 28/12/2009 21:27

Where can you buy CO detectors?

milkmonster · 28/12/2009 21:28

'To help stop the amount of people dying each year from carbon monoxide poisoning the health and safety executive has documentation stating that all gas flues need to be swept annually by qualified chimney sweeps and that this responsibility cannot be passed on to the tenant.'

www.guild-of-master-sweeps.co.uk/tennants_responsibilities.php

OP posts:
milkmonster · 28/12/2009 21:29

CO detectors can be bought on ebay, Tesco, any large supermarket, B&Q, etc. They have wired batteries so make sure the unit has not been used or tampered before purchase.

OP posts:
DollyMessiter · 28/12/2009 21:30

Contact the local environmental health officer via your council - they should be available this week.
We had problems with a rented property and they visited the morning after we contacted them.
They will score the house for safety - the officer that saw us said that if someone did not have heating, they could enforce the landlord to make the property habitable.

Also contact your MP and local paper - make a massive fuss over this, as the way the estate agent/landlord are treating you is appalling.

memorylapse · 28/12/2009 21:31

milkmonster..there is a difference between your gas flu and a woodburner chimney..the woodburner chimney is your responsibility to have swept..the gas appliance should be maintained by your LL..

memorylapse · 28/12/2009 21:38

and as I stated in my post answering your OP..it is your responsibility to have a chimney attached to a solid fuel appliance swept...however if there is a problem with the appliance itself..or a chimney leak..then this is the LL fault and you can take action..

with regards to the gas..all gas appliances must have a gas safety certificate..as I said before..if there isnt one..you can report your LL..all gas appliances must be serviced by a qualified gas safety registered engineer..this must be organised by your LL..
and as I said previously..the repair must be carried out within a reasonable time..contact the LA tomorrow and demand a repair..also ask to see a copy of the gas safety certificate..if there isnt one..your LA will be in trouble..
also contach shelter for advice..

as I said previously..the appliances will not pose a risk if not used..

ChloeHandbag · 28/12/2009 22:06

yes it is her responsibility to have the chimney swept after a year, but what I was attempting to say earlier was that the LL should have done this prior to her moving in.

memorylapse · 28/12/2009 22:23

depends how long OP has been in the property..if the burner had been in regular use and more than 6 months have elapsed..then it may need sweeping again..if its not capped..it can need sweeping after the summer months as birds have a habit of making nests in chimneys......however the likely scenario here is that the burner is faulty..or pipe going up the chimey is leaking..or its the gas boiler.

you can usually tell if a solid fuel chimey is blocked or needs sweeping as the appliance wont burn properly

memorylapse · 28/12/2009 22:25

and agree chloe...a responsible LL should really have the chimney swept prior to a tenant moving in..but not all do..you sound like a responsible LL sadly op's LL doesnt