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Our CARBON MONOXIDE LEAK incident and how we might have just died if I didn't have that unit..

39 replies

milkmonster · 28/12/2009 19:41

I bought a CO (Carbon Monoxide) detector last week as I have a working woodburner in the sitting room, having recently found out burning wood and coal can give off poisonous CO if not efficient.

Two nights ago I'd had the burner going all evening, my toddler and baby fell asleep downstairs as usual and I took them up to bed still asleep around 2am.

Ten minutes after putting them to bed (we all sleep in the same bedroom), the CO alarm went off. I always take the alarm up to bed with me.

I rang the gas emergency number on the alarm unit and they advised me to open all windows, vacate the bedroom, and wait for the engineer to visit within the hour.

The engineer duly arrived and condemned the gas central heating boiler and the woodburner, as a precaution, because he wasn't qualified to measure the CO levels or their source, they just arrive to close down all fuel sources for safety.

He advised me that because our bedroom is above the sitting room where the woodburner is, it's likely the chimney is unlined and/or there's a blockage or fault in the chinmey or flue, as I mentioned that smoke wisps escape from either side of the chimney breast when the burner's lit and he commented that the smoke smell is particularly heavy everywhere in the house, even outside, despite fact burner had died down to embers hours previously.

I also explained all three of us had very bad coughs for weeks which I'd put down to winter colds, also that I did experience slight giddiness if I closed my eyes whilst standing upright in the bedroom, which I'd also dismissed as tiredness.
Then I learn these can be symptoms of Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

Because he had no meters to measure the CO present, I have no idea whether we would allhave died in our sleep or not if I hadn't taken the alarm up with me...nor whether the coughs are slow poisoning from the CO, as our bed is right next to the chimney breast. The gas man said CO leaks through brickwork and floorboards and can even pass through into your neighbour's house because of this.

I live in private rented property. I can't touch the condemned appliances so we have those little mobile radiators and a fan heater (which are all very expensive to run), luckily still have hot water as it's heated electrically.

However, I can't cook on the gas hob nor dry clothes, which with a 6 month old baby in nappies you can imagine I get trhough a lot of babygros! I couldn't afford to run a tumble dryer even if I had one (I am not working and claiming INcome Support, the children's father is absent and does not support financially except for £5 a week CSA deductions, we left him because of DV).

The landlord seems bemused that, in his words, I "bothered initiating this whole process" that is he wonders why I called out the gas emergency number when the alarm went off. It's as if he doesn't believe me, he keeps stating he's lived with open fires for 20 years and never had CO, and that adequate ventilation in the bedroom would have prevented this incident. My bedroom door is ajar, but I don't leave a window open at night when it's -1 outside and there's a baby in the bedroom

If it turns out the chinmey is unlined, or there's a fault in the flue fitting, then is he liable for negligence?

Even the letting agents said it's my responsibility as the tenant to ensure the chinmey is swept before using the woodburner, which one online site contradicts, but surely the burner is an appliance the same as the boiler or fridge or oven, so if it's there to be used, it should be in safe, useable condition as part of the letting agreement?

The landlord says he can't get gas man in to check the CO source and reconnect the gas until 4th Jan, so I have a week of no central heating and it's due to snow again tomorrow! He might be correct, it's Chrsitmas holidays after all, but do you think I can make my own efforts to book a man then have him Invoice the landlord?

My tenancy renewal is due on 15th January 2010 and I don't want to upset the apple cart, although both landlord and letting agents are polite I have a feeling there's a negligence liability issue at stake. Plus the landlord will have to pay the costs for the repair man to come out, when the landlord thinks that couldhave been avoidable, ie why did I ring the emergency gas people when the alarm sounded..but what else was I supposed to do? Think oh yees, there's lethal Carbon Monoxide fumes in our bedroom where we were just sleeping, I'll just let a bit of air in then go back to sleep...surely the SOURCE of the CO needs to be found and eliminated or at least confirmed that it's the burner, not the boiler, in which case emergency HAS to come out?

Even the children's father has said I'm 'making trouble' by organising my own repair man (I just don't want to wait another week with no heating or gas hob) and by questioing my letting agent and landlord over whether the chimney's lined or not.

Ultimately, the alarm unit detected CO in the bedroom. If I had no alarm, depending on the levels present, all 3 of us could have died in our sleep. I don't know whether I'm underplaying the incident in my head, or if I need to be better informed and start demanding checks and repairs and reconnections immediately instead of 'next week sometime'.

I'm too scared to sleep in the room, it gives me the willies now.

Any views would be gratefully welcomed.

OP posts:
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milkmonster · 28/12/2009 23:48

'the health and safety executive has documentation stating that all gas flues need to be swept annually by qualified chimney sweeps and that this responsibility cannot be passed on to the tenant.
'

It's not the tenant's responsibility to sweep the chimney.

OP posts:
ChloeHandbag · 29/12/2009 00:26

milkmonster - we were talking about woodburner flues not gas ones.

milkmonster · 29/12/2009 00:50

So am I Chloe, I started the thread! It's nothing to do with gas boilers.

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

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memorylapse · 29/12/2009 11:25

milkmonster..if you have a woodburning stove..it does not have a gas flue attached to it...it has a chimney which is your responsibility to be swept...I think you are getting confused ...your gas boiler doesnt have a chimney..it has a flue..which is an outlet for the fumes to escape from..usually situated on the outside wall to your gas apliance..this is usually serviced at the same time as your gas boiler...
where is your woodburner situated in relation to your gas boiler?

MerlinsBeard · 29/12/2009 11:35

YOu need to look in your rental contract to see who is responsible for flues/chimneys.

WRT to the time frame for someone to come out and look at your boiler - that is all fine. You have not been left with no heat and you have hot water, wrt that your landlord has done nothing wrong.

PLease stop picking at people who are replying - your post was enormous and they are trying to help

milkmonster · 29/12/2009 14:58

memorylapse - of course a woodburner does not have a gas flue attached, it has a metal flue pipe exiting to the top of the chimney, I can't think where you imagine I've written contrary you're the confused one!

Gas boilers have a flue, so does a woodburning stove. A flue is just an exit pipe.

It is not by law the tenant's responsibility to clean the chimney, hwoever it is by law the landlord's responsibilty to upkeep, service and repair the woodburner, burner flue and chimney, inlcuding if required the chimney liner.

mumofmonsters I'm not picking at people's replies, I'm just correcting some very important errors they are making, for example someone has replied they will now be off to buy a CO2 alarm, so I needed to correct that to explain that CO2 is NOT Carbon Monoxide, so they'd be buying an alarm to detect Carbon Dioxide, something harmless!

Also, that memorylapse is suggesting I'm confusing flue pipes, wehreas they do not seem to realise my woodburner (like all woodburners) HAS a flue pipe, and it's nothing whatsoever to do with my gas boiler!
Sorry if my replies appear picky, they're not meant to be.

OP posts:
memorylapse · 29/12/2009 17:08

milkmonster..your quote is very confusing as it refers to gas flues which most would assc with gas appliances..not solod fuel chimneys..I have found yor quote on the chimney sweeps assc website and it appears misleading as it continuously refers to solid fuel chimneys as gas flues.

a good LL will have had the chimney swept prior to you moving in and I beleive that the sweep will issue a certificate to confirm this has been done...the LL should ensure the chimney is swept at least once a year and it is also his responsibility to have the gas boiler serviced one a year too. Ask the LA for the confirmation that the chimney was swept..its never a good idea to assume its been done and it would have been prudent to check before lighting the woodburner as if the house is centrally heated the LA may not have expected you to use the burner..however this is no excuse not to sweep the chimney...
the best way to assertain that the chimney is not blocked is to light a smoke bomb in the fire..if its blocked..the smoke will not go up the chimney....however there could be an actual fault with the appliance...

First step..contact the LA..and ask for the gas safety certificate fror the boiler and evidence that the woodburner chimney was swept...if the LA is unable to provide that documentation..then ring your local council's enviromental section and take steps to have your LL prosecuted...

it is unaacceptable that you are left without heating at this time of year so the LA should arrange for your appliances to be checked and or repaired by qualified tradesmen....if you get no joy...contact shelter who can advise you further...

Facebookaddict · 29/12/2009 21:19

Milkmonster, hope you're okay and feeling strong to fight LL. Not v supportive thread was it??.. Hope it all gets sorted for you and the people picking over typos or semantics with you don't find themselves in the same position with 2 tiny kids over Xmas hols... someone people lose perspective on MN.

memorylapse · 29/12/2009 21:34

facebookaddict..I sincerely hope that comment was directed at me as I posted...an informative and supportive post which milkmonster ignored..and have yet again posted an informative post advising her what to do..which she has not aknowledged and I think the general jist from the thread is that most people were alarmed at what had happened but milkmonster has instead ignored supportive posts, choosing instead to nitpick at what people have said..

again..I have copied and pastied the last thing I said

it is unaacceptable that you are left without heating at this time of year so the LA should arrange for your appliances to be checked and or repaired by qualified tradesmen....if you get no joy...contact shelter who can advise you further

I would hardly say that was unsupportive

Facebookaddict · 29/12/2009 21:40

memory got a lot of time on your hands have you...? Might be some live threads to pick fights on somewhere else, this one looks a bit quiet now.

memorylapse · 29/12/2009 21:48

what a charming person you are facebook addict..all I have done is try to be helpful to someone who has a downright awful predicament in the middle of winter and over christmas...I suggest that you are the one who likes to pick fights so would suggest you act on your own advice...Im now removing myself from this thread before I say something I regret

milkmonster · 30/12/2009 00:23

'milkmonster has instead ignored supportive posts, choosing instead to nitpick at what people have said..'

No I haven't !

I've corrected a confusion over the difference between CO and CO2. That's lifesaving information, not nitpicking!

However, this medium is notoriously wide-open to misinterpretation, so I read replies without intent.

My quote from the Guild of Sweeps website is confirmed in my letting contract, that as a tenant I am not liable for sweeping the chimney, the landlord is.

Anyway, I can't get anyone in to source the CO leak and repair (if required) and reconnect the gas boiler until 4th Jan, and it's started snowing again tonight, so me and my babies are in for a cold week! I have a couple of little mobile radiators and a microwave though, which is cold comfort but warmer than our potential grave of a few nights ago.

I'm not interested in prosecuting the landlord as I've had enough recent upheaval moving home, but I'll make sure the letting agency install CO alarms if I vacate in the future.

Thanks for views, all.

OP posts:
MollieO · 30/12/2009 00:36

I'm surprised that your LL doesn't have a contract with a heating engineer or BG. Completely unacceptable to make you wait a week to be checked and reconnected.

I have a CO monitor next to my boiler. It has gone off once. I opened all the windows but it didn't stop. Turned out it was a faulty battery and it was replaced foc. They have a date on them for how long they will last.

It may well be that your chimney isn't lined as that is an expensive thing to do. Sometimes chimneys don't need lining but the fact that smoke is escaping makes me think that yours does need lining or the lining replaced.

memorylapse · 30/12/2009 12:57

if its any consolation MM..we also live in rented and have had a nightmare time with a faulty oil boiler..hence why I do sympathise..weve had no heating since Christmas Eve..but because we are moving out next week we just couldnt muster up the strength to battle to get the boiler fixed....we are heating the house with convector heaters but the childrens bedrooms are so cold we have packed them off to my mums..
hope you get it sorted in the new year

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