How do you discipline your children if one of them has behavioral problems and the other one is just plain naughty?

[coldtits]

I have just bellowed at my children, t9ld them they are horrible little animals and animals don't get toys, sent them upstairs to their room and packed all their new toys away.

I CANNOT COPE. I HAVE NO HELP. I HAVE NO STRATEGIES LEFT< AND VERY LITTLE PATIENCE LEFT TO APPLY THEM.

They trash their bedroom daily. They get everything out, plus they move the furniture, strip the beds and empty their cupboards. If they are downstairs - well, I have just hoovered up hama beads, magnetix, lego and k'nex, playmobile and hot Wires.

They have lost at least one peice from ever single toy they got for Christmas.

Ds2 refuses point blank to tidy up. I have tried persuasion, silly games, helping, threatening, shouting, time out - it can take up to and over an hour to make him pick up just one thing he has thrown. Ds1, because of his behavioral problems, will willingly agree to tidy, then 3 seconds (and I'm not exaggerating) later he will be staring into space, spinning round in circles, getting more things out, knocking something all overthe original mess. I have to stand over him chanting "Pick it up pick it up pick it up pick it up..." Meanwhile Ds2 is somewhere else throwing things all over the place.

I am exhausted, and worn down, and I can't even be arsed with them at the moment. Neither of them get quality time with me because the SECOND one of them is out of the way I have to try to damage control the house, and as ds1 doesn't sleep until 11 pm sometimes, I have to do it while he is awake.

I'm a single parent and this so is not what I fucking signed up for. I never ever knew children could maintain this level of mindless destruction.

Please give me some advice on how to deal with them and how to deal with myself, because my behavior has been shocking today.

Coldtits, you sound as thought you're really not having a very good time - does your DS1 have respite care? Is he elligible for it, because I know from other posters on here what a lifesaver it can be.

I think that you should make an appointment with your GP to talk about how you're feeling and that you aren't proud of the way you've parented today and to ask if there's any help you can have.

You've done well admitting that this, because it can be difficult .

I hope things improve for you because from the posts I've read of yours, you seem like a very sensible, nice person.

It's not Ds1 though. He's not the child causing me the stress at the moment, it's Ds2, and he's like this every school holiday because he's not getting the time from me that he feels he needs.

I don't want to send Ds1 away just because Ds2 wants/needs more of me than is available.

I have just spoken to Parentline, and her advice was to praise the positive. Trouble is, I am not really seeing a great deal of positive, although I praise it when I do, and he is getting a lot of attention from everyone around him for behaving badly. I cannot think of one person I know who has not at some point said to Ds2 "What is the matter with you?!!"

Add to that Ds1's incessant and repetitive yapping, usually over the top of whatever DS2 might have to say, and I have a melting pot iof jealousy going on.

Ds2 is 3.8. He hits, is argumentative and bedtempered. He adores his brother (who is often the victim of his behavior) and wishes to be near him at all times.

Ds1 is 6.8 and has a need for personal space that is not matched by his inclination to give anyone else their personal space. He resents being the focus of so much of his brother's temper, but won't back off and leave his brother alone when he really should

Am by no means experienced as my 1 DS is 16mo, but sounds like they've got a lot of energy. Have you thought about getting them out once a day into the cold air with a football and get them to run around after it and wear them out. When I used to look after my brothers (when they were 2 & 6) I made them run twice the distance I walked to the park by saying they could race ahead to the next tree then run back etc. I guess it depends on how well behaved they are when out and about. But perhaps once you've worn them out in the morning they'll play nicer and be better behaved in the afternoon.

Also, maybe lock/hide away all the bitty toys (Lego etc) and only allow them one toy at a time.

I can only imagine how hard it is being a single parent, but what gets me through being at home on my own with DS for extended periods is making sure I have a timetable of activities for him and me. And knowing that at some point my mum / DH will come along to relieve me. Do you have anyone that can take them for an afternoon so you can relax?

But also second seeing if you are eligible for respite care.

Actually, that's a good point made by digitalgirl, Coldtits - why not just let them have the toy you want them to play with? It might be harder work than letting them choose, but there will be little mess and so it'll be less work at the end of the day.

I still think you need to talk to the GP about how you feel, though - you've done really well talking to Parentline, so do you think you can make an appointment there?

Hi Colditz, your ds1 was recently diagnosed with autism and adlhd, wasn't he? Really sorry you are having a hard time. And really, you should see the all day madness that is in my house.
I have ds2 6 who has asd/adhd, ds3 who has autism, and ds4 has asd. I let them have one toy out at a time, and that helps alot. Visual charts for what to do when tidying up, toyboxes with pictures of contents on.
Please consider respite for your ds1. It will help your ds2 to calm down, it will, very importantly, give you a break, and your ds1 will most likely enjoy himself. I hated the idea of respite at first, but now can see it is necessary for my sanity.
HTH

If one is tidying (this has to be fully supervised) the other one will be making a mess.

I banished them upstairs while I tidied it myself. They have now destroyed their bedroom - bedsheets all over the place, every toy out of every box.

I don't have anywhere to lock the toys away, or I would.

Coldtits, i could have written this. I have one child on the spectrum, one brat challenging child.. and I know from other threads that we have other things in common.

It is hard. For me the hardest thing is getting them into bed. I am putting it off now!!! it's the power hour. the hour of chasing them around screaming! and my house is like a bombsite too. i tolerate the bombsite and tidy up (a bit) when they're in bed...

my dd annoys me because she has no respect for her toys. she rips things out of the packaging so that the packaging is torn and then there's no way of storing it.... it is exasperating.

i'm not able to offer you any solutions!!! But you are definitely NOT the only one!

ps, my 7 year old will not dress herself. she is the nt child. i nag and i nag and i nag and i bribe/threaten/beg and i end up dressing hers every day.

This is really ruthless, but i regularly get a black bag and just chuck in loads of crap that they've broken, torn, drawn on, ripped. the radiators are all drawn on, some of the doors are drawn on.

and it wasn't ALL the work of the autistic child.

I am a glass half full person, and I JUST have to believe it gets easier.

Maggie that's what my house looks like. My walls are scribbled on, some doors are broken, flooring scratched, curtains dragged off, wallpaper ripped, and it wasn't all ds1.

cull their rooms....really,i nannied for a destructive child. we stored everything in one room (yours?) and he literally had a bed i there,thats all. there was a hook type lock on the door at the top out of reach. its the only way. too much stimulation made him worse,and simply seeing the toys/books/clothes i his room made him go wild

do wonder with hindsight if he was on the spectrum too

i don't think my dc1 is a brat because her dad isn't around... i can't be sure of course. I think she is just a bit hyper. She is mildly adhd, but they told me i'd never get a dx as it is mild, so i haven't bothered with assessments etc.

I have a fantasies about packing a suitcase (one each) and then asking a company to come in and throw everything else in the entire house into a skip.

there is no point decorating that's for sure.

your children are almost the same ages as mine too. 7+1 and 4+1mnth

Every year though I think, next year it will be easier. And I think that this christmas was easier than last year and the one before......

ilovetiffany, that could have been the case. somebody gave me a good tip, don't wrap anything for an autie child. so i didn't wrap anything for the children.. and i held about half of it back. still though, i feel the weight of all this extra plastic crap coming into the house. it will be BROKEN plastic crap soon!!!

coldtits, I had to show your thread title to DH sitting next to me and he asked "did you write it?"
We've had a horrible christmas, DS1 has special needs, can sometimes be lovely and sweet but periodically gets completely hyper and defiant and this weekend was one of those.
My ds2 is NT but unfortunately has started copying some of DS1 negative behaviour. The whole weekend we spent trying to make them do or not do something. I have never had such a bad christmas.

I have no idea how to solve the problem, but just wanted to let you khow that you are not alone.

And you have your husband there MojoLost. sorry to muscle in on coldtit's thread here, but in a way, that makes me feel better! i hope you don't mind me saying that!! i sometimes think it's being outnumbered by the children that causes the anarchy. but maybe it's more complicated than that.

Coldtits get thee to the gp

1. referral for ds1 to a consultant that will give him melatonin so he sleeps longer at night

1. tell your gp you are at the edge, you cannot cope, you need help with the boys

1. Lock on your bedroom door - lock as much as possible in there?

How many seperate rooms do you have with doors that can be locked shut?

Do you think your ds2 could have different issues rather than just being "naughty"?

Sorry I really can't think of anything else, dd4 is very mischievious and she drives both of us to near distraction but it pales into comparison with what you have to cope with.

I think that as ds1 sleeps solidly from about 11 until about 8, that's 9 hours sleep and I don't want to mess with it.

I'm not going to my doctor. Ds1 is diagnosed through CAAMHs and the GP won't be able to do anything but drug me, and I'm not depressed, I am not even particularly stressed. All the GP could do is refer to SS and as I have met most of the local social workers in a professional capacity around here, I have no qualms in saying I will never let any of them near my family until they day I die.

Lock on my bedroom door - it's already stuffed to capacity. I have the box room, the boys have the bigger room to fit their beds and wardrobes in. Kitchen door already has lock on.

Ds2 - I think he's sick of playing second fiddle, tbh, and has cooked up a genius way to get all eyes on him. He's lovely when Ds1 is at school.

I have a new idea, and one that I will apply relentlessly.

For every 5 minutes I spend dealing with ds1's questions, (what day is it tomorrow? Does daddy klnow it's tuesday? Does nanny?) I am going to then HUSH him somehow and get 5 minutes of chatter from ds2.

I've just realised I've hardly heard the poor child's voice unless raised in complaint for about 2 weeks..

the only thing that cheers me up looking around at the destruction around me is that this house was a 'fixer-upper' anyway!!

I would LOVE to be able to have cream leather sofas, huge mirrors and so on. ONE day. OMG, i will enjoy that day when it comes.

what age can you bank on your children NOT destroying your house/stuff????

How about giving them back the box room with bunks and not a lot else which means you can store and lock up more in your new big room and you can more easily limit how much and what they have out to play with downstairs?

Shame ss is so bad in your vicinity, I know of some very good ones and some fairly poor ones - same goes with drs.

that's hard... your poor ds2. my 'ignored' child is dc1. i get annoyed with her sometimes, because it's like i want her to read my mind and just recognise that it's been a long hard day and to be more like an adult than a child. and obviously she can't read my mind and obviously she's only 7!!

sorry for dumping a skip full of my woes on to your thread!

We have a slightly similar situation, although my 2 are younger as Ds1 has a physical disability. After talking to his school we are being referred for 'family counselling' - I think this is through CAMHS. I know of one family who go already and it is not always them all together, sometimes it's just the Mum or one of the DS's or any mix. It really seems to be helping them. We have not hit the stage you are talking about - yet - but I can see it coming hence asking about the family counselling. If you are still in touch with CAMHS with may be worth a call. I often think that there needs to be a lot more time given to supporting parents raising siblings of SN children.
Good luck