Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Father Christmas - does he exist?

34 replies

Rebecca41 · 05/12/2009 20:23

I'm sure this has been covered before, so apologies if I'm going over old ground.

Is there anyone out there who tells their children that Santa doesn't really exist?

I was brought up to not believe in Santa. My Mum was very open and honest and down-to-earth. The whole Santa thing just wasn't something she could do. It never bothered me, I knew no different.

DS1 is 4 now, so this first became an issue last Christmas. I asked a few friends what they thought, and was told in no uncertain terms that their children believed, and if my DS didn't, and told their kids, he (and I) would not be popular! So last year I went along with it.

This year however, I'm finding it difficult. DS is very logical, often questions things, likes to understand everything. Also, he's actually been quite scared of Santa when we've gone with friends to grottos. To him, Santa is a big fat strange man, who he doesn't want to speak to. So he doesn't seem to be enjoying the "magic of Christmas" that Santa supposedly brings.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to perpetuate the myth, and effectively lie to him. Lots of people have said they were devastated when they discovered the truth, so to me it feels as if I'm setting him up for a fall. But, these same people still think it was worth it, and wouldn't have it any other way for their kids.

Does anyone have any views on this?

I don't to destroy a potentially fun idea for DS, but equally I don't want to tell him a lie that he'll find out eventually and feel betrayed.

OP posts:

SolosScrapingUpForXmas · 05/12/2009 20:30

It's part of the magic of Christmas and my Ds is now 11 and this time last year still believed. It's lovely to see their faces IMO and I think they grow naturally toward knowing SC is not for real. The exception is when another child tells them different. It's up to you though, I'm sure you can't be alone.

littleducks · 05/12/2009 20:30

I dont tell dd he is real, as we arent christian and dont celebrate xmas. I had a thread here in nov ish and got told by quite a few posters i should be telling her he is real, so i would be interested in the replies you get!

DD wrote a letter and posted it to fc at preschool, i had no prior knowledge and was a bit pissed off, her teacher says she asked for ice skates, so i was relieved as there was no chance of her having them at 3, xmas or not. I didnt make a big fuss just said he was a fun story/ a grfeat game. She is happy and loved her xmas play where she was a reindeer and her friend was father christmas, so seems to be enjoyoing the xmas activites at school weithout needing to believe.

JaneiteMightBite · 05/12/2009 20:32

It's not lying - it is just allowing them a bit of wonder whilst they are young enough to have not become jaded or cynical.

I think it's a real shame that people feel the need to tell their children that FC is not real. Most children stop believing quite naturally and don't feel at all 'betrayed' when they do so.

Tbh I think you're over-thinking it.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Events & celebrations Families General parenting

CMOTdibbler · 05/12/2009 20:33

Me. DS is nobodies fool, and it would take a lot of lying to make him believe. As it is, he is very happy with the whole thing as make believe (he spends a lot of time pretending to be things, so has good sense of pretend), and seems to be having a good time

JingleAllTheWay · 05/12/2009 20:37

My two age 12 and 10 do really actually definitely possibly certainly know that Santa is not for real BUT they suspend their disbelief and enjoy - because it is all part of the magic of Christmas

AMumInScotland · 05/12/2009 20:50

If your DS isn't enjoying the story, then I'd stop telling him it - let him know that it's a myth that some children believe but you don't. My DS was a very literal person at that age, and very keen to know which stories were true and which were pretend. So, for us, telling him FC was real would have been a lie. I know a lot of children (and parents) are happy to have an "in-between" category for make believe, but my DS wasn't and I felt it would have been unfair, for him specifically, to tell him it was true.

nooka · 05/12/2009 21:10

We don't do Santa. Like you I was brought up without it, and never felt any loss. In fact I don't remember other children talking about Santa/FC either, but perhaps that's because I went to a Catholic primary school?

Christmas is a pretty magic time anyway IMO, and if you celebrate it well in a way that fits your family then I think you are doing fine, and your ds will have a lovely time.

I do agree with you that there seems to me to be a problem in bigging up the FC thing, because when it's over it must leave a big hole, and spoil future Christmas's. But then I don't subscribe to the Christmas is for children concept - for me Christmas is about friends and family, and should be special to adults too.

Unless you really enjoy selling the Santa myth I really wouldn't bother - I think it's only fun if it is a shared enjoyment. Oh, and then you can tell your ds about the myths behind FC (St Nicolas etc) and explain that some families take it very seriously and not to disrespect that (same as you would about religion). Most children have no problem with that, so there shouldn't be a problem with your friends.

Wolliw · 05/12/2009 21:43

Santa is a nice story but it's just that. Compare it to three little pigs or something else with talking animals. Children understand that animals only talk in stories.

Christmas presents come from real people who really love you unconditionally whether you are naughty or nice.

We are home educators so there will be no issue with schoolkids and the HE community is so diverse, there is never a consensus or even a majority belief.

DitaVonCheese · 07/12/2009 22:21

I am so relieved to have found this thread! I have been pondering this a lot over the last few weeks, arguing with DH about it () and also told I am "over-thinking" it

I never had Father Christmas as a child either - we still had stockings which magically filled overnight (and did well into our twenties! ), still wrote letters to Santa, and still left out mince pies and sherry etc (again, well into my twenties) but I was always aware that it was a bit of fun and never felt that I missed out. (Having said that, my little bro reckons that it did spoil Christmas knowing that it wasn't true. However, we did still believe in plenty of other things, like ghosts and monsters and aliens, just without our parents lying to us about them.)

Conversely, I have a friend whose young nephew still believed when he got to secondary school and who had to be sat down and given the talk by his parents. He was devastated, not just because FC didn't exist, but also to find out that his parents had been lying to him his entire life.

I feel really odd lying to DD about it, and possibly lying for the best part of a decade. I think you can still have fun with it even if you know it's fantasy - the difference between willing suspension of disbelief and just belief. DH disagrees and thinks I am ruining Christmas for DD.

DD is only 14 mo so we have a while to think about it/see what happens, but I have a feeling I am going to end up going along with it despite my misgivings because of pressure from DH and everyone around us.

UnquietDad · 07/12/2009 22:26

Frankly, I think there is no proof that he doesn't exist, and anyone who claims to have The Truth on this is just a closed-minded anti-Clausist.

drlovesmincepies · 07/12/2009 22:44

i was brought up catholic , so i just told the kids that SANTA was a real person long ago who did a nice thing by giving money to a family who had none, and thats were it all started.people thought it was such a kind thing to do that everyone joined in and thats why we give pressies. A sort of memorial to a kind man , if you will.
this sort of kills too birds with one stone imo ....it avoids the religious side and gets out the whole "you lied to me senario "...... however , the tooth fairy , and easter bunny ... thats a whole other story.

LillianGish · 07/12/2009 22:52

It's meant to be fun - but if it's not fun for your son (or you) then I wouldn't bother. Britain is so culturally diverse now that lots of children don't believe in Santa (or even celebrate Christmas). Mine are just at the point of getting a bit doubtful, but I'd like them to hang onto the myth for as long as poss because let's face it if you don't believe in Santa then the magic is gone. I don't think they'll be scarred for life when they discover he's not real - any more than they were when they realised the Easter bunny didn't exist. I actually rather like the fact that Santa brings toys in our house not mobile phones and ipods and all the trappings of adulthood that kids seem to come to earlier and earlier these days. They'll be getting their NSPCC letter from Santa and tracking him on NORAD on Christmas Eve and watching Miracle on 34th Street - just in case they have any doubts!

shallishanti · 07/12/2009 23:00

absolutely UQD, I mean, how can they PROVE there is no such person as FC?
eh?
they just lack faith, and imagination.
I feel sorry for them really such dull, colourless sterile lives.
When we're SURROUNDED by evidence, if you only LOOK.

MyCatHasARedderNoseThanRudolph · 07/12/2009 23:03

Of course he bloody does.
How can anyone think otherwise.
You'll be questionning the existence of God next, and who knows where that could lead???

Clary · 07/12/2009 23:08

dita if you had stockings, wrote letters and left out mince pies, I am wondering in what sense you didn't have FC?

However I agree that there's not much point going along with it with DC if they are not keen.

I think drloves idea is a good compromise that would avoid him spilling the beans.

GrimmaTheNome · 07/12/2009 23:14

Definitely don't lie to a kid who doesn't believe it. Let them go along with it as far as they want, but don't lie to perpetuate the 'magic' - my DD hasn't believed in santa since she was 5 or 6 but xmas is still a magical time for her, full of traditions.

When she figured it out she agreed that it would not be nice to disillusion other children who still wanted to believe it. I think she rather liked being in on the grown-up secret of santa's non-existence

DitaVonCheese · 07/12/2009 23:17

Clary that's kind of my point really, but apparently that's not good enough ...

Anyway, better get to my dull, colourless, sterile bed

cory · 08/12/2009 08:06

I have never had the slightest problem in combining a sense of a magic with Santa with actual practical knowledge of who steals away after tea to put a red coat and hood on. It's known as suspension of disbelief and is a highly enjoyable game. It really doesn't have to be either or.

FernieB · 08/12/2009 08:46

My DD's (9) know there is no Santa and it hasn't spoilt anything for them. They know not to say anything at school in case they spoil things for other kids who still believe.

When they were little we went along with the whole thing because they seemed to enjoy it, but they've known for a couple of years now because it logically doesn't make sense. When I was little I was terrified of this huge man who broke into our house at Christmas and wandered around - my Mum told me when I was 3, as I was petrified of Christmas.

I think you have to do what's right for your child and forget what other parents are saying to you. There will always be kids at school who say there's no Santa - kids who believe will find a way round that themselves. To avoid unpleasantness at the school gate, you could explain to your son that other children like to believe and it would be a shame to upset them.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 08/12/2009 09:11

I've carefully never told DS(4) that Santa/Father Christmas is real, but he's picked up the myth from society at large. And he's aware that not everyone believes, but he chooses to at the moment (he said to me last week "Mummy, some people think that Santa is real, and some people think that he isn't real. But the people who think he is real ARE RIGHT." (I said "Mmm, you think so?")).

I'm quite happy with this -- I'm not pushing the myth but he chooses it for himself (just as he also firmly believes in wishing wells, which I've never mentioned to him at all until recently when I had to gently explain that wishing wells aren't real as he was building huge plans around finding one and was going to be massively disappointed). I'll be surprised if he believes in the whole thing for much longer; he's already deeply suspicious about the tooth fairy (another thing I've never mentioned) and he's not even lost any teeth yet.

(Dita -- I'm pretty sure that the dull colourless sterile comments were an atheist in-joke, not aimed at you).

MyCatHasARedderNoseThanRudolph · 08/12/2009 09:38

Yesterday I posted quite flippantly (and possibly in a dull and colourless way ) on this thread (in my defence, I had had a very hard day with wild, poorly, lively DD and DS). I've now had a good read and think about this (sorry for being flippant/dull). I've been thinking about FC and what to tell DD who is now 4 and really wondering about it all.

I'm not comfortable with the lie of it but don't want to spoil the fun or magic that I felt as a child. I think i am going to be honest with DD about him, if she ask but wont tell her outright he's not real (and as UQD says, who has proved he isn't) unless she asks me.

It was interesting to read about those people who were well aware that he wasn't real but still felt a lot of magic at Christmas.

Chaotica · 08/12/2009 12:40

I nearly posted a thread like this yesterday - DP refuses to lie, and I am not inclined to; but we're worried that DD (who is 3) will spoil it for other children. (Preschool said that she had no interest in writing a letter to Santa which is probably good.)

What gets DP (and I agree) is this emphasis on 'good' children being the ones who get the presents (with the implication that the ones who don't get many presents are no good). DD is a logical girl and a bit literal and I don't want her dividing the world (wrongly) in this way.

(She will get presents though: xmas is a time when everyone gives everyone else presents as far as we're concerned.)

The world lacks so much beauty now I've said all that

GrimmaTheNome · 08/12/2009 15:24

yes, the equating of goodness == amount of pressies is part of the myth which everyone ought to firmly refute.

LillianGish · 08/12/2009 17:38

Actually I quite like the equating of goodness with the amount of pressies - it is an excellent incentive for the dcs to behave from about June onwards. To be honest I'd expect the same standards if they knew it was me who was buying the presents (we never buy them that much anyway!)

fruitful · 08/12/2009 18:06

We've told the children that FC is pretend - we do all the fc-related stuff anyway, but when they start asking for outrageous presents I can say "I can't buy you that, I've just spent the money on tickets for us to go on an aeroplane next summer" and this stops them asking .

"Lets pretend" worked well with dd, but ds1 is quite confused I think. He isn't sure whether to believe Mummy, or Mrs Reception-Class-Oracle-who-knows-all-things, who apparently thinks FC is real.

Sob. I used to be the One-Who-Knows-Everything. Should've HE'd.

Flip

1 2