Pink Stinks

[randomama]

Reading about feminist books for 5 year olds in today's Guardian, it mentioned this "Pink Stinks" campaign. Which protests against the pinkification (OK, I made that word up) of girlhood.

I don't have any girls (yet) but as a girl, I LOVED pink, although my mum didn't indulge it (she was Clothkits all the way). I wanted to be Barbie or a Princess but have ended up writing a feminist PhD thesis. So in my experience a love of pink and princesses and a lifelong commitment to feminism have not been incompatible.

BUT my question is what do feminist or non feminist mothers of girls or indeed what do any of you think about the pinkification of girlhood and/or the campaign by Pink Stinks to stop it?

Cheers

Dd1 hates pink. We had to convince her that it wasn't a 'baby colour' when decorating her room as she wanted every single wall purple, Which is Hannah Montanas favourite colour.

She won't wear pink clothes and uses my phrase 'It's a bit pink isn't it' accompanied with this face when shown something she doesn't like.

I find it easy to find her clothes. Like me she will wear bits of pink/certain shades i.e. a hot pink, or a pink belt with another colour. But refuses head to toe pink. Her favourite outfit atm is black HM skinny jeans and a silver HM top.

Her pink ds, is now being 'upgraded' to a purple metalic one and she cannot understand why she ever liked pink.

I get the feeling she is just copying me and my disdain for all things pink and fluffy.

Most little girls love pink, but things start to change at the age of 7, which usually coincides with children going from the infants to the juniors. Then by the age of 9 pink is "totally uncool" for most girls.

My 9 yo dd1 has refused to wear anything with pink in it for the past two years. It is actually a real shame, because she has a very nice grey zip up cardi with some pink in the design which she will not wear.

Her stubborness not to wear pink matches any preschool girls determination to wear it. Hopefully by the time she is 18 we will have reached the middle ground.

Once you reach the age of 8 parents are faced with another dilemna. How to dress you child appropriately without them looking like a little adult. To me, this puts the pink issue in the shade. I feel far more comfortable with my 6 year old in a pink dress than I do with my 9 year old in something which looks like she is about to go out clubbing in. Thankfully she also hates these clothes, but her friends wear them.

Agreed madsometimes about the little adults. Pink is relatively harmless compared to what comes later on, and don't get me started on the playboy logo on kids stuff. What next, Marlboro logo on cowboy outfits?

"The glass ceiling is to do with more than disney films, and don't let anyone suggest otherwise."

cloudspotter, I agree, but both the pink issue and the little adults issue are symptoms as much as anything. Marginalising little girls into the roles of pink princesses without brain cells or sexy pop sluts without brain cells isn't doing society any favours, nor is assuming that women aren't interested in certain activities (computer tech, martial arts, DIY) unless it's pinkified and made girlie for them.

On the small scale it's innocuous and somewhat sweet, when it's EVERYWHERE and in your face, then I find it rather disturbing.

I hate the "princess" stuff too.

Total crap..a princess is a woman who is a princess either becuase her dad was a king or her husband is a prince...so we are back to women being defined in relation to men and having no identity of their own.

And why are gender neutral products only available in pink or blue?
I was trying to buy DD a rucksack...it was a struggle to find a child size one not pink or blue (DD hates both colours).

And my DD does football, obviously there is no football kit in the girl's section, there is not even any "serious outdoor sport" clothes in the girls section.

DD is now a "John Lewis Boy" if you believe the labels in her sweatshirts!

My neices are an example of how children geed up to comply with peer pressure wil take on values rather than abandon a fashion item.

There was research done a few years ago into young teenagers adoption of things like swastikas (when the Beastie Boys were popular). When the meaning of such symbols was explained to them, they were more prepared to ally themselves with the original currency of the symbol than abandn the symbol because of it's meaning.

My neices were indulged in a very 'marketing led' choice of toys and clothes..pink, girly, femniine. They have adopted what the perceive as the values of that world, as depicted in the pictures on the boxes of toys, the adverts - and specifically as they appear in juxtaposition to toys marketed at boys - in an all action, muddy sort of way.They aligned themselves to the marketing fantasy of planet pink and in doing so came to hate all that was sold as being on planet boy.

In real life they will not now wear wellingtons so will not come for walks in the woods between Sept and May. In the summer they wear pink sparkly sandals so have never climbed on the logs. They sat out half the activities on their school journeys as 'boring' (and said afterwards they were 'for boys' with a real tone of contempt). They sit fiddling with pink phones and watching DVDs on a pink TV in their room.

Of course, many MNers here are saying that they have the resources to offer a context beyond the world marketed amongst all this pink, which is great. But there are loads and loads of little girls sucking it up wholesale, and whose parents are all too happy to exacerbate, not challenge the stereotypes on offer in pink.

It''s SO subtle and pervasive. Look at the children in the two buggy ads Soupy links: the boy is independently away from the buggy, digging. The girl walks alongside the buggy, holding on. In another context, look at the context of men and women in the Boden Catalogue: women smile coyly at the camera and hold on to men's arms, and children appear in the women's clothes pages. Men look directly into the camera and, women look at men in the pic.

It all sends a message. It's fine if we are AWARE of the message and can make a conscious decision - but advertising is geared to bypass people's decision making! That's how it works - it subverts our independent anaysis. If we let it. plenty do.

I have 2 daughters and one doesn't like pink, the other was born with a pink glimmer in her eye. I have never encouraged pink - it was like part of her make up! DS likes pink and non-pink in equal measures - so I think it is good to go with what they seem to like personally and concentrate on showing them a strong model for feminism - i.e. show them that women have choices in life

I was looking at my DD's laundry drying on the airer the other day and wondering how it was that there was so much pink in it, despite me trying my best not to have much of it. Even from an non-symbolic point of view it's annoying that I can't buy a 3-pack of tights or socks without at least one pair being pink.

I haven't bought much from ELC for DD because of the genderisation of their toys. I don't know whether it was less prominent when DS was small or whether I just didn't notice because I quite like blue. I really want to buy a toy pushchair for DD for christmas but I won't until I can find one that isn't pink.

Along the same lines as the Pink Stinks campaign, I can't stand schools where the girls can't wear trousers. It sends the signal so clearly that attractiveness comes before practicality for girls. It's a deep routed thing from my childhood I think. There were times when I would much rather have worn trousers but nobody cared, not my mother and certainly not the teachers. I grew up in Ireland which is cold and wet and there were definitely days when I was in discomfort walking home. If my brother's school had brought in a shorts only requirement I bet most of the parents would have been up in arms, so did those parents love their sons more than their daughters?

One of the good things about leaving London is that I won't have to have this battle with DS's school when DD is school age. It's a great school and the teachers and govenors are lovely people but any time I mention the girls wearing trousers they just look blank and make some bland comment.

Do you know what really really really worries me? It's that so many girls feel 'sexualised' so young. I know that surveys aren't always represnting the truth but I was horrified when this came out: 63% of girls (a survey of 1000 girls aged 15 to 19) would rather be glamour models than nurses, doctors or teachers. Is it because they are completely ignorant or are we doing something very wrong to them? Is this pink campaign linked in any way to these issues?

When I think pink princess, I can't stop this mental image of Jordan in her pink wedding dress, saying that she wanted the perfect princess wedding. Why am I linking all these things together? I'm not sure.

hadn't heard of the pinkstinks campaign till now but I just left christmas shopping came home and emailed the ELC et all after feeling sick in their naffing sterotyped shops.

Boycotted them, mothercare and toysrus until they get a grip (emailed them all and feel so much better!)

I'm all for this anti pink campaign & try really hard to dress my dd who is nearly 2 in non-pink clothes. But it's not just the pinkification of girls' clothes, it's the promotion of the 'little princess' attitude that goes along with it, which pushes the idea that little girls should be cute & spoiled & pampered & winsome, instead of say, clever & interesting.

Relatedly, I don't have a girl but I've noticed our nursery staff using the word 'tomboy' to describe little girls (2-3 ffs) who run around a lot. Really drives me nuts and I know it will make no sense if I mention it, or people will say It's just a word innit.

Yes, girls seem to be expected to be passive and attractive, not active or inventive.

One of the reasons I want DD to go to a girl's school is that sport is seen as normal for girls there, but in mixed sex school sport for girls is really very half hearted (in those schools I have visited).

DD does gym and yes, there is a girl there who won't do any moves that mess up her hair...

An anti pink campaign? How ridiculous!

Yes pink is associated with femininity but surely a Pink Stinks campaign is just playing into that ridiculous notion that femininity and girliness are qualities that are no longer respected in today's society?

Can we not celebrate femininity as well as finding some balance for our children? There's plenty of variety out there after all. All this 'I could only find it in pink' bollocks is nonsense. There is an ever increasing variety of colours and styles of clothing and toys for all children

Can you imagine if it was the other way round? A little boy who wasn't allowed to wear blue, play with trucks or play football. Over the top no?

This anti pink lark just smacks of parenting snobbery to me.

We joined PinkStinks because my dd1 [5] saw it in Newsround. It was the first time she watched it, by total accident.

DD said that she is fed up of girls toys not having dinosaurs, diggers, building things and that she doesn't even like fairies.

I guess by 'girls toys' she means things marketed at girls, mainly in pink packaging. She then asked for a pink watch for Christmas, which I think shows how sophisticated children are. They know exactly what they like, and do not want to be pigeon holed. My dd like diggers and pink watches, and does not see why she can't have both.

So I totally disagree Crazycatlady, I think the selection of toys has become horribly boy/girl orientated. I do not agree that to kick back against this means feminine choices are negative - it means the opposite. Feminine choices are so worthy they should be equally available to boys and girls - they wont be for as long as they are marketed in this way.

I really object to the idea of an essential 'femininity' & 'masculinity' - these things are social constructs. I just can't accept that pink = femininity. And I feel just the same way about blue = boy/masculine, btw
I do recognise that there is perhaps a little snobbery at work here. A friend I know who shares my views on pinkification uses the term 'Asda pink' to describe that particularly lurid, tacky example of the colour. So there you go!

I agree MotherofPearl. If there are 'feminine' traits, they surely amount to more than fecking ironing boards and fairy costumes.

If feminine traits means the values around mothering and nuturing, then a good sprinkling over both sexes can only be a good thing.

That said, I am currently tearing my hair out trying to find the Barbie Shower and Show lump of crap plastic in stock somewhere. DD is fixated!! Can only hope the planetarium we got her is a small consolation. Eek!!

Tee hee at 'Asda Pink' motherofpearl, that's quite funny.

tackytree I think there are a lot of parents who are making feminine choices seem negative, by their conscious avoidance of them. Obviously you're not doing this, but I know parents who do and that's why I think the whole thing has just gone too far.

It's possible to wear pink, like pink, enjoy so called female past times and be successful and intelligent.

I remember my pink phase distinctly. I was 7. I also wanted to join the army and enjoyed riding my bike and climbing trees. I still like pink, never did join the army, but I have a healthy obsession with cars and boxing. And cupcakes. There you go.

Crazycatlady - The thing is though, when you walk into somewhere like ELC or ToysRUs and all of those places, the divide is so clear. The marketing is so hyper directed and narrow. It actively encourages parents and children to keep to their side of the shop. So some parents will think 'bugger that' and kick back. That may or may not be the right thing to do, but extreme circumstances do lead to extreme actions don't they.

Something like PinkStinks isn't saying that pink is bad, but pink rammed down your throat as a marketing tool, and the polarisation of the sexes in childhood is very very bad. And playboy bunnies on pencil cases for 5 year olds is never ever going to be a healthy introduction into being a woman.

Still no Barbie Shower and show though

The trouble is there has been a huge retrograde movement concerning what is expected of girls (and boys) and a polarisation between them culturally - very little is unisex any more and there are many young children who feel very limited by such expectations and will tell you clearly that they cannot do or wear something because it's "for boys" or "for girls" only. And that is awful. I hate the focus on looks, beauty and passive/feeble images and icons for girls (fairies, princesses, maybe butterflies if you're lucky) and the way science, exploration and action themes are generally directed only at boys - from toys and magazines to the slogans on clothes.

BUT pink is not the problem. Everything for girls being pink/lilac is pretty boring, as is all the sludge/blue for boys, although you can in fact get other options if you want to. But there is nothing about pink that tells girls they can't do whatever the hell they want. And in fact it confuses the issue because it might make girls feel pressure not to like pink if they want to achieve, and that's just daft.

I'm as feminist as they come, very much a career professional, was a total tomboy as a child, but I like pink, and wear pink - not non-stop but I do like it.

I think this pink stinks thing has focused on the wrong thing for the sake of a soundbite and is muddying the issue. We need less gender prescription and limitation, but it's not pink's fault.

Less gender prescription doesn't look as good on a teeshirt though

I agree with you about muddying the issue. However, having been in a few toy shops lately, I can see how the idea of PinkStinks came about. ELC is like an entire wall of pink. Gah. The boys knights and Dragons stuff looked so much more interesting, and I could see dd eyeing it up. She is surcoming to pressure though, and doesn't feel comfortable over that side of the store. Isn't that awful!!??

I feel slighty torn on the whole 'pink stinks' thing: I strove to find DD clothes etc that weren't pink when she was a baby, her room is blue and red, yet DD (3.8 years) is always dressed head to toe in pink at the moment. She loves pink. It has annoyed me that so many clothes for sale are pink, and that as we don't have much extra cash to spend, many of the hand-me-downs we've inherited have been pink, as have all the clothes my mother buys for DD.

A friend asked me if I was excited to be buying boys toys when DS was born. This just puzzled me as I have always considered toys to be toys, not gendered. The ELC have pissed me off mightily with their pink/blue changes. Anyway, DD had toys, trains, diggers etc before DS came along.

Anyway, as DD loves pink but I haven't pushed it, and also as I was once a pink-obsessed 3/4/5 year old, I'm a} assuming she'll grow out of it (as I did) and b) feel like some evil parent whenever my friends go on about the evils of pink.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that children seek something to define their identity at this age, and gender stereotyping (including pink/blue) tend to be what they go for. And then they grow out of it and learn the subtleties of being an individual.

But I do feel conflicted! I would have said 'no pinkification' when she was born, but now we have a pink wash. And I don't want to feel like a bad parent for it! She will be brought up with my feminist values, and she will live through this phase. I just hate the idea my DD and I are being judged for the colour she wears. Gah, not feeling coherent, but annoyed by all of this. Yes, ELC = bad for polarising things so much, but DD in pink does not = bad.

When I looked at the website I didn't get the impression they thought that putting a dd in pink clothes meant bad parenting at all.

Just that the shops are tedious and restricting choice.