Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Original poster

Pink Stinks

158 replies

randomama · 04/12/2009 13:17

Reading about feminist books for 5 year olds in today's Guardian, it mentioned this "Pink Stinks" campaign. Which protests against the pinkification (OK, I made that word up) of girlhood.

I don't have any girls (yet) but as a girl, I LOVED pink, although my mum didn't indulge it (she was Clothkits all the way). I wanted to be Barbie or a Princess but have ended up writing a feminist PhD thesis. So in my experience a love of pink and princesses and a lifelong commitment to feminism have not been incompatible.

BUT my question is what do feminist or non feminist mothers of girls or indeed what do any of you think about the pinkification of girlhood and/or the campaign by Pink Stinks to stop it?

Cheers

OP posts:
TheFoosa · 08/12/2009 19:00

that message has been out there since the beginning of time

I'm more concerned with how pornography & sexualisation of girls starting younger & younger

I think the pink thing is a side issue

OrmIrian · 08/12/2009 20:01

"And symbolising the first step on the road of what men and women are like, please!"

Fine, mock if you wish rockbird But the sooner we set the roles in stone the harder it is to break away. And you have missed the point that pink is only symbolic of what women are supposed to be.

BTW it gets worse the older they get.

SoupDragon · 08/12/2009 20:10

"I'm not missing any point. You're letting them tell you that it's for boy or girl. The toy is available in two colours. Take your pick and let it symbolise whatever the hell you want. If you want to pick a fight over pink or blue/boys or girls then go ahead. But you are letting that happen."

Of course! You're right! I feel so stupid. All the shite pink prams/carseats/sunblinds/whatever that are in sickly pink with "Little Princess" on them are for boys too

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General parenting
TheFoosa · 08/12/2009 20:13

actually, looking at the pinkstinks website it's much more than just about colour

so it's all for the good

SoupDragon · 08/12/2009 20:14

Yes! It's clearly for a boy! And this fabulous item. Clearly for a boy to p*ss on.

SoupDragon · 08/12/2009 20:17

Pink and flowery or blue with army-esqe badges on it

SleightiesChick · 08/12/2009 20:18

I was very pleased to see this discussed on BBC Breakfast this morning and the spokesperson from Pink Stinks came across very well, I thought - often those representing feminist causes come across / are portrayed as slightly unhinged on these things, but she did a good job. Love the Christmas campaign.

SoupDragon · 08/12/2009 20:22

The perfect present for the male in your life - a bargain at £7.99

Bramshott · 08/12/2009 20:28

OMG that zebra thing is insane. Here's the ordinary Zebra, and here's a special pink version, in case girls can't cope with a zebra that comes in black and white!!

RockBird · 08/12/2009 20:28

Dont bloody buy them soupy!! Because if no one bought them they would stop selling them. So someone either likes them or doesn't give a toss. It's a pointless argument. And don't give me the face just because I don't agree with you thanks.

ravenAK · 08/12/2009 20:33

I think the thing is that if you presented a Martian with a pink, glittery sequinned dress, & a pair of DPM combat pants, & said: 'Right, one of these is for parties, & the other's for climbing muddy trees...can you tell which is which?' - well, it'd have to be a pretty dim extraterrestrial not to work that one out.

Pink is a frivolous, impractical, easily dirtied sort of colour. I think dressing girls in pink all the time sends them a message that they too are expected to be frivolous, impractical & easily dirtied.

The answer for girl babies is here.

(Available in black, green, white or, um, pink )

Heated · 08/12/2009 20:38

For me the issue is - using ELC as an example - that a lot of pink toys are dolls, fairy wings, kitchens etc emphasising nurturing, homemaking and being passive whilst the blue toys are associated with action, adventure, doing and building. There is nothing to say you can't buy blue toys for a dd but this simplistic colour coding of gender appropriate toys really irks me.

I posted earlier this year about my difficulty in finding a non-frilly bike for dd, maybe in red or green, that didn't have white wheels, streamers and a seat for her dolls - had to go to a specialist site and pay twice the price.

When dd was a baby it wasn't a problem - toys come in bold primary colours - but now she is 3, whatever it is, it comes in pink as the default option.

Bramshott · 08/12/2009 20:48

I told you about the ELC Happyland packaging I complained about last year didn't I?!

"Mr Barley is a Geography Teacher. Mrs Barley keeps the house clean and tidy"

FFS !

Heated · 08/12/2009 20:58

No!

poshsinglemum · 08/12/2009 21:19

I find it wierd how pink can be used as an empowering colour in some cases for example for Gay Pride or to represent breast cancer awareness and then seen as a threat in other cases.

I don't think it's pink that worries me- it's the sexualisation of girl's clothes that gets my goat. look at new look's collection. it's the same as the women's clothes. all skinny jeans and shrugs. wierd.

poshsinglemum · 08/12/2009 21:21

I like to look pretty for myself and if men find it pretty then that's a bonus. It dosn't mean I'm not a feminist as I definately am. I don't like looking like a slag though!

TheShriekingHarpy · 08/12/2009 21:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ravenAK · 08/12/2009 22:25

But it's not about condemning it as an option amongst other options. My dd1 has rather a lot of pink clothing, either because she's chosen a pink not a green/red/purple t shirt when we've been shopping, or because she's been passed it on by my mate's dd.

She likes pink. That's fine.

I just dislike the way in which some shops (Next, Mothercare, most supermarkets) present you with a wall of roughly 75% pink. To me, it says very clearly: Girl = pretty, impractical.

& I dislike even more the idea that an obviously unisex toy 'needs' to be available in pink. Yes, whoever said 'so don't buy it' - absolutely.

But the MD of ELC won't be ordering pink toy screwdriver sets because he personally thinks they are lovely. He'll be doing it because they sell by the shedload to PARENTS who 'think pink' when it comes to buying toys for their dds.

I find it fairly depressing, tbh.

RubberDuck · 08/12/2009 22:53

As I was saying on the other thread, this really doesn't stop at childhood, adult women's stuff is increasingly being branded pink.

I wanted to buy some sparring gear (for martial arts) in a smaller size (i.e. for women) and the first website I came to, the only option was frigging pink.

And there is still the attitude in my martial arts class that the girlies can't cope/are taking it easier. Even this evening one of the younger lads (our sifu's sifu is a 58 year old woman) reacted in shock at descriptions of this 58 year old woman's abilities "what... and only a woman?" (fortunately he got short shrift by our sifu). This is in a martial art which was supposedly designed for a woman by a woman.

So yeah. I won't be buying PINK sparring gear any time soon. Show no weakness

SoupDragon · 09/12/2009 09:55

RockBird, I don't buy them. Just ignoring stuff that is wrong doesn't make it go away though does it? I didn't use the face because you didn't agree with me, I gave it because you were wrong. Things which are available in blue or pink with "princess" etc plastered over are not just a colour choice are they? The point you are missing is not that I don't have to buy it if I don't like it, it's the reinforcing of stupid stereotypes. The fact that pink hammers are available and the implication that women need special tools is, quite frankly, insulting.

It's not about the colour as such. I went into PC World earlier in the year and they sold "Tech Guys" support packages. They came with a stick figure holding a phone number IIRC. There were male and female stick figures and the male one was blue, holding a spanner. What do you think the female one was? Yes, it was pink holding a phone in one hand and a piece of paper in the other. The implication was that the Tech Guys were male and females are helpless. Thankfully, they appear to have changed it. Although not the name "tech guys" but [shrug])

TheShriekingHarpy · 09/12/2009 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

OrmIrian · 09/12/2009 10:15

I agree about the boys stuff too.

But what I fail to understand is why it appears to be so damned hard for us to buy t-shirts of multiple colours and designs for either sex. Where is the red, green, blue, yellow, purple ? And why do jeans have to be 'styled' with flowers on the pocket? Until girls develop hips and breasts there is no reason why they can't wear the same clothes shapes as boys. It's so stupid!

zazen · 09/12/2009 10:24

I don't know very much about pink as the enemy - having said that, we mostly buy green and purple, fushia, white, navy clothes for DD, and blocks and puzzles.

I'm more concerned about the aggressive type figures on boys clothes TBH. Ben 10 seems very aggressive in his stance.

Maybe a bit of pink for the boys wouldn't go amiss?

What I suppose I'm trying to say is that I find the segregation of the sexes into archetypes very stultifying and depressing.

Pink Vs military uniform colours: kakhai, navy, beige is a bit of the thin edge of the wedge, but I find the projected stereotypes of roles in toys, and images more alarming. Pink Princess, Green Action Figure.

I did see a Pink Hello Kitty AR 15 but not sure I'd go as far as this to challenge a stereotype!!

RubberDuck · 09/12/2009 10:48

Complete utter tangent, but zazen's bolded "princess" and "action figure" totally made me think of Eddie Izzards action transvestite sketch

Perhaps we should put Eddie in charge of children's clothing design... now THAT would be fun!

cloudspotter · 09/12/2009 10:53

Interesting debate. I am a total feminist, was a tomboy and then a bit of a bluestocking I guess. I have ranted and raved my whole life about feminist issues, to the point of really being lucky to hold down a man at all.

However, I just can't get worked up about the pink issue. Don't get me wrong, I did get very worked up when the dds were very small. I resisted the pink wave of products coming my way.

A few years on, I have to say that my girls love pink and I no longer resist it. Why? Well, I do think it is a fairly harmless marketing-inspired trend. It is a clever way of meaning they can sell more products. I find marketing to children a bit disconcerting, but I am not sure how harmful.

I think to mix up all kinds of gender issues together misses the point. If you want evidence of the real progress our culture has made in the last 50 years, you only have to look at the plot and narrative of the so-called 'pink' films. The Barbie or Princess invariably rescues the prince from danger and sometimes sails off into the distance on her horse with her girl buddies.

I think it is a gender identity thing. There are many many separate issues going on which can't be grouped under 'pinkification', even though I would love it to be that simple.

The glass ceiling is to do with more than disney films, and don't let anyone suggest otherwise.