One of my Stepsons has leukaemia, and the other one keeps telling him he wishes he would die. How should DH and I deal with this?

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My eldest DSS (they don't live with us) is 11 and has been battling leukaemia for over a year, thankfully he has responded well to all the chemo and it looks like he's nearly out of the woods.
He has dealt with everyhting so well and has been able to go back to school (started secondary).

Younger DSS is almost 9 and whenever they are at our house and start bickering, younger DSS without fail starts saying he wishes DSS1 had died/would die. He goes ON and ON about it. This has started happening more and more often. It absolutely horrifies me because we don't speak like that in our house. Our DCs are pre-school and we try our best so that they don't hear any disagreements etc.

I always ask him politely not to speak that way because I am not in a position to discipline, DH usually ignores it but it is becoming so frequent now we're not sure what to do.
DSS1's illness has inevitably caused upset for everyone and I'm guessing the attention his illness has got is making DSS2 feel left out/forgotten.

DSS1 is very upset when his brother says this to him, the atmosphere changes afterwards and DSS1 becomes withdrawn.

How would you put a stop to this, whilst being considerate to how both children must be feeling? It's ruining our weekends and possibly having a long-term negative effect on the DSSs and also our DCs.

I think I would have to leave the room to avoid slapping his teeth out of his head.

I would immediately (ideally) remove him from the room, take him to his bedroom and leave him there until the nextmorning.

He MUST be taught how unacceptable this is, and your Dss1 MUST be shown how seriously you are taking this.

colditz, Deep down this is how I feel too. I didn't want to put it in my OP as I'm not sure if i'm right, but I must admit that if these were my own DCs I would have given him such a serious telling off that he would never dare do it again.
It truly is the most abhorrent thing I've ever heard a child say it it makes me want to cry every time.

They don't live with us so he doesn't have a bedroom, could be removed to the baby's room though.

Actually, I think this is very, very common amongst siblings where one has had/has a life threatening disease. Has the 9 year old had any help in dealing with his feelings about it all ? It's incredibly scary on one hand for a child to be thinking that his brother might die, and on the other hand, his whole world has been turned upside down with his brother and one parent prob away in hospital for lots of the last year and everyones emotional energy focussed on that which can be isolating and frustrating.

Clic Sargent can provide help for him in dealing with his feelings, and for you in helping him

I agree with CMOT. Clic is a great charity and there are at least two or three other leukaemia charities with care/support lines and local networks that should be able to help. Siblings can feel very isolated, confused, angry etc and at just nine he needs support in dealing with all these emotions. As much as his brother also need to be supported too and the wider family.

No, the 9 year old has had no help as far as I know. Thanks for that link I will show it to DH.

DH has mentioned it to his XP who says that DSS2 only ever says it at our house. However DSS1 says that is not true and that he usually hears it once a day.
Imagine hearing that once a day! I'm a grown woman and I think it would have a huge effect on me, let alone a child.

DH and XP have a very acrimonious relationship so I can't see her working with us on this. Because of this DH kind of feels it is out of our hands, but because it happens in our home I feel that it is up to us to put a stop to it, even if its just for those weekends they are with us.

www.leukaemia.org and www.leukaemiacare.org.uk are also good.

DSS2 has a lovely caring nature usually which is why it is extra shocking to hear him say it. he definitely needs some kind of help with it.

Rember though that DSS1 may also play on it a bit - not saying it isn't hurtful, but children with cancer aren't always above using it against their sibs (cos, afterall, they are just children). DSS2 may only say it at your house because he can iyswim - presumably his mum has been away with his brother a lot, and he might feel threatened in her affection because of that

I think although your gut reaction is to have a big angry reaction, it's important that he isn't made to feel that he can't express his feelings at your house. Poss better to take him away for a sit down and a chat with his dad when he says it - with a tack of why did you say that, rather than don't say that

I don't see why you should feel unable to do anything about it - in your home such behaviour is unacceptable to you regardless of what happens when they are with their mother, so you should be able to do something about it. Your DH should support you.

CMOT's suggestions are possibly more constructive but I would probably do exactly what colditz said.

Are they full siblings - both your DH's and his ex's children? What was their relationship like before DSS1 became ill?

children can be cruel like this but sometimes I think they are trying out saying "the worst thing imaginable", partly to see what will happen, and partly because it externalises a deep fear inside them of the worst happening

my sister used to say to me after our little brother died "it should have been you" and "we all could have done without you"

we have no relationship now (that's not the only reason, but it didn't help - especially as she was still saying stuff like that well into adulthood) - I strongly agree with you that it needs decisively addressing now

would he be receptive to some counselling? Maybe he needs a "third space" to express and explore HIS experience of having a sibling with a dangerous illness?

Thanks all. The links are very good.
The boys are full siblings. There is also a younger DD aged 5 who is also DH's child but he has never been allowed access to her.

This is a whole other crazy story that I won't go into now but very upsetting for us all that she can't come over, her brothers are understandably confused and DH is at times heartbroken. (DH and XP split up before she found out she was pg with her DD, so she thinks DH has no right to see his DD )

I'm sure ALL the children would be receptive to some counselling following DSS1s illness, but he has very little co-operation. DH has broached the subject but she dismisses him. DH thinks that she fears that the whole messed up family situation will come to light if they go to counselling. I am behind him whatever he wants to do, but presently he won't go to court.

BTW, have posted on the subject of the DD here before and got a lot of good advice, however DH does not want to take her to court over access. he feels we don't have any money for it and I think a small part of him feels that he has no right either... it was a v. controlling relationship, he had a nervous breakdown towards the end and he is eternally weak when it comes to XP. but he feels unable to go head to head with her over anything.

Back on topic, yes I wish there was a way we could organise counselling for both DSSs but it won't be easy. In the meantime i think we need some good ideas for how to manage this at home, as sensitively as possible to both boys.

whoops, added the line 'I am behind him whatever he wants to do, but presently he won't go to court' as an afterthought, in the wrong place! I meant it to go at the end of the paragraph after.

If you contact the charities you can speak on the phone to someone on the Care line who should also offer to send out/recommend some really useful literature that you can read with the boys.

god how difficult for you all

the XP sounds utterly nightmarish, your poor dh not being allowed to see one of his children

I have a close friend in a similar situation - he had a breakdown towards the messy end of his relationship and his XP is witholding custody basically just to make him miserable

The only ideas I can come up with are ones you have probably already tried/thought of - could your dh take the younger boy out once a week on his own, either for a meal or to do something they both like doing? It might create an opportunity for them to talk about what all this has been like for him, away from and distinct from his brother's feelings and illness

sorry, she's witholding contact, not custody

yes, she is quite difficult. Her own brother no longer has contact with her and believes she has a personality disorder.

Agree that time with DSS2 alone would be good. He has a lot of one-on-one time with DSS1 as he takes him to all his Great ormond st appointments. DH has to work his rest days or take annual leave to make up for all these days off, doesn't leave any free time for him to spend with us as a family/DSS2. DH's XP refuses to take DSS1 to appointments for some strange reason, so all strain falls on us with regard to juggling work/finances etc.

It really is a mess, not surprised the DSSs are unhappy when I read back all this.

Why can't your DH arrange counselling for the boys during times when they are with you? If he has PR for them I don't see how she can stop him.

not excusing 9yo BUT he is coping with chronic sibling illness,feeling neglected,scared and angry,as a result he is saying vile things that hit the mark.esp as he know it is a taboo subject (mortality always is). he likely is experiencing intense rage,frustration,envy,fear can the 9yo be engaged separately in some stuff with parents only,maybe he craves some attention/time

perhaps some support and acknowledgement for him ask gp or oncology nurse about what available for referral

Tavistock London CAMHS
call our coordinator on 020 8938 2241

We see children and adolescents with a range of common emotional and behavioural problems including:

• Problems relating to particular life events such as parental separation and bereavement

God, my heart breaks for poor DSS2. How terrible must the situation be for him that he wishes that DSS1 was dead.
And no wonder really.
From his point of view, the last year has been about nothing but DSS1. All attention and care have (naturally) been lavished on his older brother. He probably feels that if he had a life threatening disease he would be told to go and die in the corner quietly so as not to disturb DSS1.

Saying you wish someone was dead means very different things as an adult and as a child. And especially as DSS2 "has a lovely caring nature" I seriously doubt that he actually wishes his brother was dead. I think what he is trying to say is that he feels neglected, hurt, angry, resentful, scared, etc etc and he wishes the situation was 'dead' and things were back to normal.

Feeling like "slapping his teeth out of his head" and banishing him to his room will do nothing to quell these feelings, and will only add to his perception that he (and his feelings) are much less important, loved, supported and valued than DSS1.

An adult can be expected to be compassionate, empathetic and self sacrificing in this kind of situation but that is a lot to expect of a 9 year old child who is obviously crying out for love and reassurance. He seems to have had absolutely no help to make sense of the situation from his perspective. No wonder he is finding it so challenging and is expressing his feelings inappropriately as he has had no support to be able to express them safely and constructively, and to have them validated.

I think there is a real danger here of vilifying him for feeling what is only natural, and that supporting him and getting him help (in the ways already suggested) should be paramount, or for once, should at least be equally important to DSS1 needs.

The situation with his mother sounds desperately difficult and complicated. I can't begin to imagine why she would refuse to take her own son to his hospital appointments. It sounds like you and DH will need to juggle things about to enable DH to spend more one on one time with DSS2 to talk about his feelings and experience of the situation. Could you sometimes take DSS1 to his hospital appointments for example? Or do you not have that sort of relationship with him?

If it is any help, when my lovely caring mature 12yo was told that her little brother had been diagnosed with the same condition that has made her disabled, her reaction was one of complete fury. She knew she was wrong, but she really wanted to kill him. He wasn't allowed to be ill because she couldn't cope with any shift in the support she needed.

I know my friend who died of cancer last year had a lot of trouble with her children's anger too.

Thanks, yes you are right that DSS2 needs time with his dad to discuss everything.
DH and I had a long chat last night. It turns out that DSS2 has also been telling DH that he is gay! He is not quite yet 9 so neither of us are sure how early a child can know these things, but it sounds to me like a big cry for attention!

All in all he seems very unhappy.
We're trying to work out something so that DSS2 gets some one-on-one time, but DH's time is so heavily taken up with Great ormond st just now, he had a flexible working arrangement with work when DSS1 first got ill, but they stopped it after 6 months, now DH is struggling to cover all bases.

There is no way i'd be allowed to take DSS1 to an appointment even though it would really help the situation (currently on mat leave so no job to juggle). DH's XP would not allow it, she has never met me in the 4.5 years DH and I have been together (her wishes) and if I even dare sign a birthday card for one of the DCs all hell breaks loose.

One definite plan is to have a holiday away next year where DH will concentrate on DSS2, and we'll just have to try our best in the meantime.

How odd that she doesn't take her own child to hosp appt yet would go mad if you did! Bonkers. Given the pressure dh is under re his job it may well come down to either his mother or you taking him. She may not be married to him but she still dictates his life! And how very that dh has never seen dd.

It is 'normal' but unacceptable. The advice about getting counselling/help for him is great but obviously not much good if his mother will not support it (silly cow).

Contact all the numbers anyway - CLIC are really good. They will give you some tips on how to deal with it. I suspect they will suggest being clear it is unacceptable but ensuring that the poor kid has loads of attention for a while.

Tricky I know but possble perhaps? The key is to to make sure it is not a 'reward' for poor behaviour but because he really is loved for who he is. I don't know, could your husband do the...'now you are older I would love to do this [whatever interests them both] with you on our weekends'?

I am guessing he feels he has been somewhat ignored - your family have had a really tough time so it might even be true! If I were you (and I don't know how 'mature' he is, so you might take this with a huge pinch of salt) I would be up front. This is not acceptable; and tell him why. Tell him that it is an understandable reaction to such a stressy time though, and then tell him this is one idea for making life easier for him and ask what he thinks? There is often a lot to be gained by involving the kids in decision making even when they are very young.

On the whole though I think the mere fact you are posting says it all. He is loved and will be OK - just needs boundaries (part of love) and a little extra attention for a wee while.

Tavistock London CAMHS coordinator 020 8938 2241
CLIC Sargent Child Cancer Helpline on 0800 197 0068

cb do call one or both of these get these poor wee boy some support and reassurance.it is completely normal for siblings to have rage,fury,envy and behavioural changes