Do you think putting a child in their room (and holding the door shut) is compatible with unconditional parenting?

[ScarlettCrossbones]

It's not, is it?? Because I find myself doing it more and more these days, when DS (4) gets into "the zone" of behaving badly and I can't think of anything else to do. When he's looking around for things to throw off any surface ... trying to escape out of the front door to the extent that I have to sellotape it shut ...

I just feel I have to withdraw all attention from him ? all the fuel that is fanning the flames, if you like ? but I suppose that could be interpreted by him as love withdrawal, yep?

WWYD??

Scarlett, it isn't about love. I love my children no matter what, but if they over step the mark they need to learn that the behaviour is unacceptable.

Challenging unacceptable behaviour and maintaining postive regard from them throughout are not mutually exclusive.

I don't know what unconditional pareneting is but I am agin following any child-rearing system to the letter.

Is love withdrawal meant to be a bad thing?

I think you are tying yourself in knots with a parenting theory.

Wondering - the OP asked specifically about UP, where parenting is not a battle of wills. What a sad way to see life with your children

Have any of you sceptics actually read UP? If not, then I suggest you do before ranting about it because you probably don't actually understand it!

Scarlett at resident Kohn-ophile. I actually try to go further than Kohn and try to live a consent based life with my family. Moving away from coercion is the way forward, I believe.

Lou - why is expecting a child to self-regulate with reason ridiculous? I know many, many children who are very rational and make very sensible decisions after taking the advice of their parents who they trust not to lie to them. It's not ridiculous at all.

I was having a really tough time with my DS aged 3 when his new sibling came along. I read this book and life has been better. He is not violent towards his sister but one day he announced he wanted to bash his aeroplane into her head. Now it would have been easy to rush in with threats of punishment but instead I calmly explained that if he did that it would hurt her and she would get upset and cry. I asked if he really wanted this and he said no and walked away. I could tell he meant it and had thought it through. He has been loving and caring towards her since. I explained that it was normal and okay to have negative feelings towards her but not to act on them. He really got it!

I am not saying I manage to follow this philosophy all the time. I am human. However I absolutely believe that children need unconditional love and to feel that they are inherently good. I really believe in the continuum concept as well which is based on the idea that babies/children are not our enemies to be tamed and manipulated

It is not ridiculous and I believe a lot of society's problems are because of conditional ideals i.e. you are only worth something if you achieve certain standards or behave a certain way.

On the other hand my DH thinks the basic philosophy of the book is that 'children can do what they bloody well like!'

If you do not mind me asking how do you get to the stage where a child is allowed to hit out for half an hour or throw things that do not belong to him/are not for throwing and behave in such an appalling manner.

I am with moondog in this, it means to me that something it is clealry not working. The child is clearly distressed and cannot cope with emotions/feeling/situation whatever and has not given the tools to do so. What age are we talking about? I hope not older than 13months.

Curiosity: what happens if child behaves like this in someone elses house or towards someone elses child?

There must be something badly wrong at my house then as my son is three and throws inappropriate things or hits frequently. Not for half an hour, but I do stop him by moving him out of the room and shutting the door. Removal from the situation is the only way I know to deal with it at this point. But I don't actually think that kids having meltdowns or being violent is necessarily a sign that something is horribly wrong.

Damon, I think you're very lucky to have a child/DC who are so constantly well behaved. How do you do it?

Parenting a 4-year-old DS (and I think there have probably been more threads about this age, and gender, on here than ANY other!), can be tough at times, but I don't think my DS is a demon child going off the rails who will be dealing in coke by the time he's 13. Kids have tantrums. It's upsetting, but I'm just trying to find the best way to deal with it that sits most comfortably with me.

And to answer your question, it's really only me and DP he acts like this with. He would never go round someone else's house throwing around their possessions, and apart from the very odd half-hearted whack at his sister, has NEVER hit or been aggressive in any way (that I've witnessed) towards another child. Presumably because he's never been hit himself. So I'm not calling in the child psych just yet!

Thanks for the back-up, Flamingo, again.

Occasional meltdowns are normal of course, I didn't mean that they are not. IMHO they are usually due to tiredness or hunger or both. They can involve wingeing, crying occasionally throwing and hitting yes. But I would imagine that at the first hit or throw they are made aware (in whichever way one chooses) that such behaviour is not tollerated and must be stopped at once.
The parent is of course in charge of spotting the real cause of the tantrum and resolve it (feeding, calming, relaxing etc) but also of recognising and dealing with the bad behaviour.

But bad behaviour is not always a response to an obvious problem, like the physical ones you mention. They can be a longterm response to a longterm problem such as not enough attention or feeling unloved.

And telling your child you love them while your actions tell him the opposite doesn't really cut the mustard! Children don't do words, they do actions - they need to be shown how loved they are by being loved whatever they do, not just when they behave well. When they worry that that isn't the case, they start testing it 'will mummy love me if I hit her?', 'will mummy still love me if I throw things?'.

Of course children don't actually think those things - it's not conscious at all. But understanding that is not about 'letting them do what they like' but about cuddling them while you tell them firmly what is and what is not ok behaviour - guiding them and teaching them. They will learn in time, but they won't if they don't trust you and don't trust the world.

Scarlett apologies if I sounded all righteous and patronising, didn't mean it.

I just do not seem to get the philosophy behind UP. But I guess I should go and read a book about it instead of giving unwanted advice here .

No worries Damon .

But you are not telling them you don't love them, you are telling them you don't like the behaviour. Honestly.

Why would you cuddle a child who is hitting another child for example, even if they are doing this because mummy has not given them any attention and they hate the kid they are hitting in that moment? Can you empathise with the mum of hte child who gets hit? Surely it is a bit odd from their point of view: first their kid gets hit, then the hitter gets a cuddle. WTF? Surely you raise your voice (and I don't mean shouting at full blast) to show that you are angry and tell the child who has hit, that you DO NOT HIT, and take them home, or send them to their room, or some sort of time out. Then maybe after you can talk about why they hit, are they jealous, are they angry about something, whatever.

You have to show other parents that you care also about their children, not only yours. Honestly.

And also what are you teaching your child. If any child I know starts to kick one of my plant pots for example, I do feel angry, and I want him to know that I am angry. There is nothing wrong with feeling of anger. Why pretend? Why repress an important emotion?

But we all have to learn that there are consequences if we do things that are not pleasant.

lol Damon, at "is the age older than 13 months!"

Can't we all just trust ourselves without following these silly methods written by some shady expert?
And no one on here can ever explain Alfie Kohn's theory apart from no praise no discipline so I can't see any point in buying the bloody book

That is what is mind boggling. Nobody on here can explain Kohn's methods. Lol at A Kohn being shady.

FFS - sorry, but I am not going to parent my child in a way that will please other parents! I will do it the way I think is moral and right and best for my child!

Yes, Alfie Kohn is not the be all and end all, he's just the person who has written the most accessible book about parenting in a moral way.

Children are not products in the making, they are people, and I will treat my children as such because I believe that's how they should be treated. I will not do something that is not right for them, just to please another adult.

And I don't pretend I'm not angry. No one who writes about non-coercive parenting (or consent based, or taking children seriously, or unconditional parenting or whatever label you want to put on it) would say that pretending you're not angry is helpful in any way, shape or form.

Ihave no idea what kind of parenting I do, but this is what I do with my 4yrold twins. If they start to lash out in anger(they'v e never attempted to trash anything, but they have kicked out at me or each other when very cross) I do stern talking explaining very firmly that they can't do that because it will hurt whoever and however cross they feel it is wrong to do that.
If they continue I carry them/walk them to another room and continue the discussion free of distraction from other 2 siblings/cause of frustration.
If they keep shouting and won't calm down I leave them (door open) in the living room to calm down and if they attempt to come out still shouting I tell them firmly to go back in.
I'm using my tone to restrain them I suppose so I suppose that's not very OP is it? I'm in charge of them and I can't have them hurting each other or breaking things deliberatly in anger - they're 4 they can reason and remember and respect our home.
I do try and stop and think before I say no about anything and I try and think about what great kids they are when they're being shitty.
I have to say if they were trashing anything other than a bit of paper I'd have to physically intervene if asking didn't work and they would be told all about how that had made me feel and how clearing it up/fixing it was going to get in the way of any plans we had to do nice things for the next 5 minutes.

"Now it would have been easy to rush in with threats of punishment but instead I calmly explained that if he did that it would hurt her and she would get upset and cry. I asked if he really wanted this and he said no and walked away. I could tell he meant it and had thought it through. He has been loving and caring towards her since. I explained that it was normal and okay to have negative feelings towards her but not to act on them"

Well that is exactly what I would do too, only I haven't read any parenting books, surely it is common sense? I don't need to spend money for someone to 'teach' me common sense!

FlamingoBingo it certainly isn't about parenting to please other parents. But it totally should be about parenting to ensure your child is comfortable in their society and society is conditional and not only when they become adults.

UP parents on here seem to put across this impression that they are the only ones who love their children because they treat them as "people".

An earlier discussion about Unconditional Parenting among other things - if anyone is interested.

Putting a child in their room and holding the door shut being in line with UP? I'd say it depends, as with most things.

If you have a young child who is tantrumming to a destructive level then the child needs containing until they calm down. Doesn't mean that you abandon them, you just wait for the storm to blow out. Then you can deal with the situation. I find that my children who have had a raging tantrum are normally very upset once it's passed.

"UP parents on here seem to put across this impression that they are the only ones who love their children because they treat them as "people". "

Really? I don't think I've seen that.

OP - I have done this on a handful of occasions with my ds (4) as it's the only way he has the space/time to calm down that he needs. I've tried thinking spot/step and putting back into his room over and over, and it just doesn't work/makes him more and more angry. I've tried the ignoring technique and saying "I'll talk to you when you stop shouting and I can understand you" but he just follows me round shouting "talk to me mummy, you're making me angry". If I hold the door shut, he calms down much quicker. BUT I don't feel good about it, it feels wrong somehow, and I am definitely looking for alternatives..