I feel so sad and are desperate for help

[FabBakerGirlIsBack]

DS1 - 8.4yrs
DD - 5.11yrs
DS2 - 4.1yrs

I have struggled for a long time with their behaviour for all sorts of reasons, not least that I have long term depression and was brought up in care - lots of moves to and from children's homes and foster homes. Pretty awful childhood really and I am in denial that it really happened.

We have tried rewards and really explaining that they behaving like this has meant they have got that and isn't that better than losing things.

We have tried punishments like taking away tv and computer time and DS1 currently has very few things in his room as he refused to tidy his room even though we asked several times over several days.

Yesterday DH had planned a lovely day at the beach so I quickly made up some banana and choc chip muffins and we asked the kids to tidy their toys from the lounge. Back chat and a refusal so in the end we didn't go.

Today DH had booked a surprise day to the railway for the boys (DD has a party to go to) with their Grandparents and Uncle. That has now been cancelled. They were awful this morning and DH said to me they weren't going but he really wanted to go so started getting things ready. I was in the other room and the next thing I know DH is on the phone to his parents saying they are not going.

I can't not take DD to the party as the birthday girl has SN and will be very upset so she will have to feel she has earned it back.

We are stuck at what to do.

I know I let DS1 get away with things too much when he started at 2 years old but he is 8 now and I am fed up. He is an angel at school.

Please help.

good lord - if ds1 read to ds2 I'd probably award him an instant 10 stars and take him straight out to Toys'r'us!!

You must be doing something right! I wish I could get ds1 to stop being horrible to ds2. Sigh....

That is good news about the counselling, really hope it goes well for you

He only read to get a star and has been horrible again this morning but baby steps....

definitely baby steps! The sooner you can get to 10 the better, so they get something - then it feels more real when you start having to take them away....

DS1 was desperate to make pancakes and I said yes. We are doing it now. Good job he is doing it with me as I added 2-3 tbsp of butter when it should have been batter.

I am thinking just fake it. Act like I am a good mum and then hopefully the kids will respond and it will start to come more naturally.

That's a really good idea re: faking it. I read once on a MN thread that when you think you're losing it you should act like a social worker/other scary person is in the room..! I try it sometimes and it can work to help change the overall mood/tone when things are getting bad.

That definitely works and helps to set things back on track. Glad today was better.

Good news about the counselling too.

DS1 is surprising keen on ths star charts - has 2 stars already and I have bought some reusable charts so they will be up for when he gets home from school.

Need ideas for giving stars and also for taking away/adding sad faces, which is best?

I am an emotional dishrag today as well as in a lot of pain so I think I need all the help I can get tbh.

do you mean ideas on what to give them for?

We generally give stars for things ds's have done which are kind/generous - so they get them for playing nicely together, sharing things, letting each other take turns on the computer or playing football without killing each other.

Also, things like doing extra jobs without moaning (they get pocket money for doing one job each - ds1 clears the table each tea time and ds2 tidies his bedroom just before bed every day - doesn't have to be perfect but he has to do a bit each night to get his pocket money!).

So they could get stars for things like putting their clothes away when I've brought the washing in, or helping me clean the bathroom (which they love 'cos they get to use the skirty stuff... )

They lose stars for being a nightmare! So, too much shouting, moaning, fighting - they always get a warning before they lose one - it usually stops them but every now and then we take one away - much howling but they tend to accept that that's what's going to happen now.

Good luck!!

"squirty stuff"

Why not sit down with him and ask him what he thinks?

It will help him to think about what good behaviour is and name it for himself.

It will also help him to think about where the boundaries are. It will help him to get away from thinking that discipline is something imposed from 'on high' because ideally you want him to start regulating his own behaviour by stopping to think about whether something is acceptable or not before he does it.

Maybe start the conversation by mentioning things you've really liked in teh last few days.

Got to run ...

ooh - they also get stars if they behave themselves when we're at other people's houses or going out for a meal!

All great ideas, thank you.

How did things go today VG?

That should be FBG obviously

Not read all the post, but I have to say that I am as strict, if not more so with my two ~ especially my Ds. I do think you have to be consistent and I'm not always, so hats off to you Fab. Not sure what else you can do, but you sound like a great mum to me, so don't give up.

FBG, all sounds good and positive

I, fairly recently, went on a parenting course called The Incredible Years - it is all about positive parenting, setting boundaries for expected behaviour by giving DC a list of what you expect - house rules as it were and praising them for any positive behaviour. I was sceptical as I thought that I wouldn't be able to modify my DS' behaviour by stopping shouting and giving him stickers and treats - I was wrong.

My rules included We always use kind words and voices (instead of no shouting/being mean). We are gentle (not no hitting/hurting) etc.

You then praise the DC for any good behaviour - in a way over the top style, inc set a timer for 5 minutes (right at the beginning) and if the DC had played well together for that time they got stickers/rewards. Eventually longer between rewards.

I am not at all saying that you need to take a course, obviously not as you seem to be doing a fine job, but it made me feel more confident in my abilities as a parent. Like you I didn't have a very good stable family environment, it is my ambition to be a better mother than my own mother was (she died of chirrosis/alcoholic poisoning when I was in my mid 20's). I hardly shout at all now, we are all much happier.

FBG - just felt I wanted to post, and say that you are doing a good job, if a child is well behaved in school, they know how to behave well, iyswim.

We have just introduced star chart for DD due to some spiteful incidents at nursery (fingers crossed), it seems to be going well. If nursery teacher says she was well behaved when we pick her up, she gets a star when she gets home. She also gets one for going to bed "nicely". At the end of the week, dependant on the number of stars, she gets to pick a present (within reason) for being good.

With regards to what you should be rewarding, I think other posters have put it well, ask you los what they think is good behaviour and bad behaviour. Your elder children should be able to draw up their own lists of rewards and losses (of stars). Remember that if they break this, they only lose a star, don't escalate to anything bigger. Also if they lose a star or get a sad face (or whatever) this means that you are not being a "bad mummy", as they have not broken your rules, they have broken family rules, that they helped set down.

Good luck, let us know how it goes x