I feel so sad and are desperate for help

[FabBakerGirlIsBack]

DS1 - 8.4yrs
DD - 5.11yrs
DS2 - 4.1yrs

I have struggled for a long time with their behaviour for all sorts of reasons, not least that I have long term depression and was brought up in care - lots of moves to and from children's homes and foster homes. Pretty awful childhood really and I am in denial that it really happened.

We have tried rewards and really explaining that they behaving like this has meant they have got that and isn't that better than losing things.

We have tried punishments like taking away tv and computer time and DS1 currently has very few things in his room as he refused to tidy his room even though we asked several times over several days.

Yesterday DH had planned a lovely day at the beach so I quickly made up some banana and choc chip muffins and we asked the kids to tidy their toys from the lounge. Back chat and a refusal so in the end we didn't go.

Today DH had booked a surprise day to the railway for the boys (DD has a party to go to) with their Grandparents and Uncle. That has now been cancelled. They were awful this morning and DH said to me they weren't going but he really wanted to go so started getting things ready. I was in the other room and the next thing I know DH is on the phone to his parents saying they are not going.

I can't not take DD to the party as the birthday girl has SN and will be very upset so she will have to feel she has earned it back.

We are stuck at what to do.

I know I let DS1 get away with things too much when he started at 2 years old but he is 8 now and I am fed up. He is an angel at school.

Please help.

I am taking DD out now to buy her some new clothes. I am ridiculously excited and she has gone off to get ready straight away which is a good sign.

I want to start afresh with the kids as this is awful for all of us.

Fab, I think it's hard to see a way out when you are feeling so low.
Can't your husband take the boys to the railway anyway?
You can take DD to the party and have a well earned rest then, or at least a little chat to the other mums.

I think cancelling things all the time is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Try to have a weekend where they decide wht they would like to do and you follow their lead?

I don't know how good my advice is on these threads, we are all just muddling through I guess but you def need to start enjoying them a bit more and get out of this rut.

Fabbaker - I'm sorry things are so crap.

But somehow you need to try and turn it around - even if they get dressed one morning without too much fuss and trouble, give them a star!

Make star charts on the computer/sheets on the wall and reward stars liberally in the first couple of days - for anything at all. Eating their tea without nuclear meltdown etc. They need to get used to being rewarded, not punished.

You can definitely do this - it'll probably feel weird and too soft at first but maybe you all need a break from the 'down' stuff 'cos you're being so hard on yourself and then in turn on your dcs.

Go for it and keep posting - we're all full of crap but here for you!

Oh FBIB - I feel so for you, you sound so down. I don't think I can add any better advice to the other posters about how to sort out the dcs' behaviour, but I'm concerned for you.

THere's clearly a lot you need to work through for yourself - your childhood and your relationship (or lack of ) with your mother. The issue of not being able to elicit better behaviour from your dcs is obviously chipping away at your self esteem and self belief and you need to get the esteem and confidence back on track if you're doing to be a happier mother - really sounds like you need some counselling or a regular therapy session where you get to talk through your own problems. (apologies if I am stating hte obvious and you're already doing this. but it seems that you need help for you as a person as well as you as a parent.)

Fab - I don't have any advice as I only have one child who is little but please don't feel that growing up in care doesn't equip you to be a good parent - I have three friends who grew up in care and they are all good parents which it sounds like you are too. Parenting is hard work no matter what your background. I hope you find some ideas here that help you to feel better about the tough time you're having

Don't be too hard on yourself. You haven't had a role model so it is difficult. Your DCs love you and you are the one they want.

I would follow up the suggestion for the family meeting when you are all calm. Make it quite formal and write down suggestions.
Start by saying that things are not working well and it was a sad weekend and you would like to have happy times. Ask them what sorts of things they would like to do as a family and write them down. Ask them what they don't like and write them down-you might be surprised at some of the answers.
Then tell them what you don't like and what you would like and write them all down.
Read through what you have and see if you can find solutions e.g if they don't like to be suddenly told to tidy up you could agree that you will tidy up before bedtime.
Agree on the most important points and cross out the less important ones.
I would then write out a short list of fun things you want to do and the behaviour you want. Tick them off as you succeed, each time. At the end of each week have a meeting where you see where you go to-the successes and failures e.g a success if they didn't answer back most of the time or you didn't shout most of the time. Try and aim for success. Make sure that they know they can have their say if they think something isn't fair e.g one DC didn't do a fair share of tidying. Have something to hold so that only the person holding it speaks-to stop them butting in. It is also your chance to say what you think would have worked better. Amend the list if necessary.
The chief thing is to get them on your side. Giving them individual attention is another good thing-perhaps get DH to take 2 out somewhere and do some cooking with one DC.
I don't think there is any harm in saying to DCs-'this isn't working-lets find a different way'. Maybe getting some counselling for you would be a good idea-coping when depressed isn't easy.
You wouldn't be asking for advice on here if you weren't a good mum.

Sorry got to not go to.

hi fab , you are a good mother who is trying to establish a good life for your children the fact that you had a crap childhood imo is the cause of you doubting your mothering skills , i was lucky i had a fantastic childhood but yet i still worry about weather i am doing things right some times . i think some counselling would do you the world of good & maybe give you back your confidence .

I think people who have had a difficult upbringing often think they don't know what they are doing because they didn't have family role models. But actually, lots of people with 'normal' childhoods feel like they are making stuff up as they go along too . They just have more confidence to get away with it. You're doubting yourself because of your upbringing so being doubly unfair on yourself.

I also think children who are angels at school like having home as an outlet. I don't think an untidy room is the end of the world. You should see what my 8 yr old's room looks like! Does he get pocket money? I would just give him an amount every week and tell him it's conditional on him tidying his room (not picture perfect, just reasonable) and then he can have his money and do what he likes with it. If he doesn't tidy his room, no pocket money (but also don't buy him any sweets or treats during the week). Don't make a big deal out of it. He doesn't want his pocket money, so be it!

Don't know about your younger too. Think age 5 and 4 often quite difficult ages for behaviour. No doubt the 5 yr old tired from school and the heat.

I agree with you getting help especially if you feel you are in denial. Sounds to me as if your upbringing is playing on your mind and it's hard to get through that stage and out the other side without help (just my opinion).

younger two grr

P.P.S. Another thing we do is have 'o-meters' for different things depending on what they're doing at the time that drives us mad.

So, ds2 has a meltdown-o-meter - so every time he has a meltdown (he's 5 but can still tantrum with the best of them...) he goes up one on the meltdown-o-meter and if he gets to 10 he loses a star or money from his jar.

Bizarrely, this works quite well. Ds1 at 7 has an answer back-o-meter

It turns the thing that drives you mad nito something a bit silly - takes the heat off it - but is still a form of punishment 'cos they'll lose something in the end.

Pisces Moon talks a lot of sense.

We have just back from shopping.

Have spent £76 on clothes, sunglasses and an umbrella for DD but it feels good to have bought her some decent clothes for once.

Today will be manic but I am going to reread this thread tonight and make notes from it as there are lots of good ideas. Thank you.

I have no intention of ever speaking to my mother again but there are times when I just want a mum and also time to tell her how I feel but she thinks everything she has done has been for me.

I try and see both sides but I honestly can't think of anything she has done that has been for the best for me.

I could list them but I think it might depress you lot as well as me.

Thank you again.

I know I am doing everything wrong but it is so hard when you feel like I do.

I miss enjoying my children but I did enjoy the shopping this morning and I think DD did too.

FBGIB - please stop saying you know you're doing everything wrong! You're not. You have three dcs who are not behaving as you would like at home. But you have just had alovely morning with your DD. The dcs behave well at school. You are a family that plans outings and treats. You have good standards. I don't see how this equates to you doing everything wrong. Right now there is a lot that's getting to you and it must seem like it is "everything" that is wrong. But it isn't really.

In line with the advice to reward all the little bits of good behaviour, how about looking at all the things you are doing right? Eg warm safe loving (even if it doesn't feel like it when everyone's kicking off!!) environment; children fed, clothed, have toys, have parents who care enough to worry themselves over behaviour and how to manage it.... I could go on and on ... Please start looking at all the things you and DH do well and use that as your foundation for putting right the things you're not happy with.

I am trying really hard to stay calm, talk normally, not say no straight away. Kids are okay. DS1 not escalating like he normally does.

I should think of a list of the things you do right-I think you would get lots-be positive-think positive!

Just reading through to post my 2p's worth and I see QS has said it all for me!

Children need to know the consequence of their actions before they misbehave then they have the choice to carry on or not. This way if they misbehave they KNOW what will happen. Misbehaving then being told they are not getting a treat because of it, leaves them no option or reason to behave any differently. 'If you tidy your room then we can go to the beach' is better than 'RIGHT! you haven't tidied your room so we are not going to the beach!'.

I hope things improve for you.

I feel for you... you sound like you are trying so hard to be a good mum, and I bet you are succeeding in more ways than you realise.
Maybe kids are too egocentric to appreciate the effort it takes to make home made muffins and such.
I have a mantra that I recite daily "Pick your battles" I find it helps.
I also try to parent 'pro-actively' instead of reactively... a lesson I learned after having a nervous breakdown after adopting our dd.
All this said.... I have bellowed at my children this morning for being deeply unpleasant toward each other... it's a learning curve aint it!!

I don't really have anything to add to the wonderful collective advice that has already been given, but FBGIB, you are not doing everything wrong! Like others have said, the fact that you are so worried and asking for help shows how much you care for and love your children. I think Piscesmoon has some brilliant ideas ... the reward as opposed to punishment system has definitely worked for me.

My Ds1 (5.10)was asked to help tidy the toys strewn all over the garden the yesterday. After moaning for ten minutes and doing nothing, he sighed and said, "Nana, don't you ever NOT do something just because you don't feel like doing it?" Instead of telling him that if he didn't help we wouldn't be going to the cinema as planned, I agreed that I often feel like not doing things. I then told him he'd earn an extra sticker on his chart for each toy he put away (these count towards special items he wants). Later he was beaming when he informed that he'd put away 15 toys/items! (He was actually racing to put things away before DH and I could get to them.)

ha nanajo , great idea will have to try that ,

Thank you all

I do feel more positive as DS1 has been challenging but I have kept my voice normal, firm but fair and have kept reminding him to be nice. He also seemed interested in the star chart I am starting tmw and has earned a sticker already for reading to his younger brother.

One minute at a time, small achievements and I should focus on that.

Have just scanned this thread and also think that you need some support, praise and nice experiences. If I feel low, is much harder to cope with children than if I feel good.Do you get any you time to do something you like? My faves inc - read a good book during the day for 30 mins, meet a mate for a coffee, have a facial, pedicure, manicure or whatever floats your boat, go for a swim - on yr own.
Totally agree about slimming down your aims to something nice and achievable - praise reaps praise and if you make it for something small but achievable, you win.Reward yourself too though - every time you handle a situation well, then praise yourself.
Whats the old song -= accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, latch on to the affirmative, don't mess with Mr Inbetween. You certainly sound like you are already getting there. Keep smiling.

So glad you hada good day fab x

Glad to hear that things have been better today FBG.

You give other people such great support here, and it's great to see that everyone has given such good advice.

Dwardle is playing my song it seems. And when things go off-beam here I think too about that line Obama borrowed from the old song about 'Brush yourself off, dust yourself down and start all over again'.

Just one more suggestion: developing their empathy with each other can really help. When they get rough can you ask them to think about how they would feel if someone did the same thing to them ...

Don't skimp on taking time for yourself where you can.

Any time you take to get counselling for you will be an investment for all of you. There is a lot of pain there and it sounds like too much to deal with on your own.

I forgot but yesterday I got my letter and my first appointment is Sept 8th for counselling.