Bilingual schooling - how important is it that children are taught their minority language by a native speaker?

[castille]

DD is bilingual French-English (me English, DH French) and we live in France. She is 11 and in the bilingual section of an otherwise normal French secondary school.

This year she was taught English language, literature and civilisation in English by an American teacher recruited specifically to teach in the section, and things have been fine. But I have just found out that next year their English teacher will one of the schools "normal" English teachers, ie a French person speaking English.

I am not pleased about this. Half the point of sending her there was to be taught some of her classes in English by native speakers.

Am I making too much of this, or is it as important as I think it is?

There is a saying : 'better not to learn a language at all that learn it from a not native tutor'. I think this is quite true when it comes to English. It is not about the grammar is about the accent. I have been taught english when i was young in Italy by Italian tutor - and italian accent. After living here in uk 25 years i still cant learn the proper english accent - if you don't get it right in the begining... I think it would be ok -ish if you learn italian because 'what you see is what you read'. But for English language i think you need a tutor who is native so you can learn the right english accent from the start.

Anna, a huge thank you. Excellent info, I'm taking notes, and DD's best friend's (English) mum and I are trawling through the OIB colleges in the provinces in search of non-fee-paying state schools for ammunition.

Laquitar - thank you, I agree

I'm sure that a sound review of all the schools in France offering OIB, and their position on EMT teachers, is your very best ammunition . Go for it guns blazing!

Laquitar on Tue 12-May-09 14:14:41
"There is a saying : 'better not to learn a language at all that learn it from a not native tutor'."

if you'll excuse me, I think that's a silly saying

of course it is better to speak a language with a perfect accent

but if you can't do that, surely it's better to able to communicate in it, to enjoy its literature, to understand something of the culture, than to have no knowledge at all?

would you really be better off living in the uk without having any English at all?

of course the OP is very right to want the best for her dc

but thinking that a less than perfect experience invalidates anything you learn seems a very defeatist attitude to me

Joseph Conrad apparently spoke English with a heavy accent. Would he have been better off not bothering?

I did not learn English from an English tutor, and I am still able to make what I hope is a valuable contribution to teaching and scholarship at an English university

My brother learnt German at home from our non-native speaking parents and now speaks it fluently and (I am told) with a very good accent (his first contact with actual German speakers was at the age of 17)

not saying you shouldn't opt for the best- but I've known so many people who have given up on bilingualism because of this all-or-nothing attitude

Yes, plus it is possible to get the accent even if you don't have native tutors from the start.

DH grew up in a fully french family and did English at college and lycée with French native teachers.

Age 17 he spent year in the USA. He spoke Fnench once during that year (Christmas phone call). He now speaks English with a regional american accent. People don't believe he is French when they hear him speak English.

He'd sound far sexier if he had a little bit of a French accent IMO

Surely the bilingual section of a collège has been set up for French students, and not for the English (already bilingual)? If so, isn't it adequate that French teachers teach the subjects? I suppose native English speakers would be better, but not necessary. I think you're expecting a lot for them to cater to you to be honest.

Our collège do have a bilingual/international class, but I don't expect my kids to benefit from it really. I'm searching for a way for them to avoid having to study English at all. I want them to be properly bilingual and think I'll do a better job myself than any teacher in a French school could.

Castille, I´m really dismayed on your behalf, I think this is unacceptable for students who are native speakers of English.

I have to say, I´ve worked in both state and private sector secondary schools in France, only came accross one teacher who spoke fluent English, the rest spoke heavily accented and hesitant English. I was shocked. This was a few years ago, but it hardly seems that things have got better in the meantime : (

I have met "bilingual" children whose English was also quite poor and though it´s great that the language was not lost altogether, I´ve noticed that they can come across, well, strangely.. eg. I´ve initially asked myself if they had some kind of learning difficulty : ( Another issue is that language mistakes do "fossilize", mistakes become ingrained after a time and it´s impossible to change; I wouldn´t be happy if my DC learned the errors of a non-native speaker and they "stuck". Awful.

I would also take into consideration that if our dc were learning English in the UK and completely immersed in English they would still have hours and hours of English language teaching every week. It´s not enough just to have one parent to teach a language. Not to FIRST language standards.

Have to say, I am influenced by contact with polglots who through probably exceptional circumstances, have never learned to speak any language fluently.. : ( I guess there are not so many of these people..

pillowcase - your assumption isn't correct. Bilingual sections in French schools have been set up in order to help children proceed to the Option Internationale du Baccalauréat, which was set up in large part to cater to bilingual children or to children from other cultures who were living in France.

sachertorte - my thoughts precisely.

Knowing a few Franco-British children who speak English as you describe, it became clear to me a long time ago that my input alone is not enough to ensure a good level of bilingualism in my children. So the international/bilingual section is a godsend. At least it would be if it lived up to expectations

Luckily for us there is another (private, this time) school in the city that has a bigger bilingual stream, so we're looking at that, as we seem to be getting nowhere with the head of DD's current school

Hello,

I saw your message last week. I am planning to move to Fontainebleau and also looked at the anglo section. Did you speak to the head? has it been resolved? You mentioned that you were going to look at an alternative, was it the centre active bilingue? any feedback will be highly appreciated!!!!

Hello,

I saw your message last week. I am planning to move to Fontainebleau and also looked at the anglo section. Did you speak to the head? has it been resolved? You mentioned that you were going to look at an alternative, was it the centre active bilingue? any feedback will be highly appreciated!!!!