My mum has just been shouted at by another mum at preschool :(

[nappyaddict]

DS (2.10) does have a problem with lashing out at children if they try to take toys off him. He has been told to shout NO if he doesn't like what another a child is doing. This is handy because if I've taken my eyes off him at the wrong second this alerts my attention to the situation and I can go and diffuse it and calm DS down before he lashes out.

Anyway she went to pick DS up and it turns out they think DS has lashed out at another little boy (2.6) who has big chunks out of his face They weren't certain cos 3 children were near this little boy when it happened but when the mum asked the little boy who it was he said it was my DS. They said my DS had been in a car and this little boy had tried to pull him out and so they think DS had lashed out at him. I'm not really sure how it happened because DS is supposed to have 1 to 1 care, so you'd think they would have been able to intervene quickly enough to stop it happening.

Then the little boy's mum started having a massive go at my mum who was a bit nervous and unsure what to do and now she doesn't want to pick him up anymore which is a shame because DS really loves Tuesday's when his Grandma picks him up.

I can understand the mum being angry that her son's face has got chunks out of it but it should be the preschool she is angry with, not my mum. My mum thinks she thought she was DS' mum but that's not really the point. How can we stop him from hurting people when we aren't even there! Not really a point to this thread just wanted to get my thoughts together a bit.

Your poor Mum, and DS - I know my two DCs love being collected by a Granny. Agree totally that the pre-school is at fault. They should have dealt with the situation themselves, particulalrly if your DS is supposed to have 1-1 care. The other mother has to accept that it is part of life that her DC will from time to time be hurt by other children. It sounds as though you have already started a system to help your DC, and to be honest at that age I think most children will lash out if they have a toy removed by another child.

Both nursery and school my dcs have attended have a policy of not telling the other parent the name of a child involved in an "incident" like this - for good reason! It's only fair that the nursery gets the chance to deal with these issues consistently, without parents going on the warpath.

Though of course by the time they start school it breaks down a bit - ds1 especially will tend to blurt out who gave him the latest scratch or bruise or whatever!

Try not to worry your ds is still very little - my boys were always a bit TOO quiet IYSWIM and in some ways I wish they were better at fighting their corner!

I think all nurseries have to have that policy don't they? Only problem is that once they reach 2/3 and start to talk is that it's a bit pointless!

You totally have my sympathy, but I think you also need to look at it from the other boys mum's perspective. I'd be so angry if I felt my DD or DS could be physically attacked whilst under the legal care of pre-school or school for that matter.

She would have been feeling really upset, angry and emotional. If her DS does not have any behavioural issues as such, she may be finding it difficult to understand why your DS can't just behave himself. She may be assuming it's down to bad parenting and so lashing out at his family rather than the school.

I know this isn't fair, but I think it is understandable in the immediate aftermath.

Sorry you and your mum and your DS are having to go through all this

I don't think it is understandable to lash out at any time. My ds (5) was bitten at school last week - pretty badly. I know who did it and I also know it is not an isolated incident. The mother and I have talked about it, but in a friendly way. What point would be served by me shouting at her? It is just plain rude to shout at the mother about what you assume happened at school.

I take the view that a civil converstation achieves a lot more than a screaming match. Also my children are no angels and I would not want to have another mother shouting at me.

Seeline, I don't actually think most children will lash out if a toy is taken from them at that age, not at all.

Personally I would go and talk to the preschool about the incident with you mother and ask that they explain the situation to the other mother and also tell her that it is unacceptable to shout at other parents/relatives at the school gates. I do empathise with her upset at her son being damaged but as you say this is a preschool supervision issue here and they need to take responsibility for this themselves. Your mother did not make this injury happen and the other mother involved should learn to exercise some self restraint here.
My DD was bitten in a toddler group by another child. Yes I was upset it had happened, but I wouldn't have dreamed of blaming the parents of the child. At the end of the day the responsibility was that of the nursery to supervise and deal with the incident. Thankfully I did feel reassured by the nursery at the time and it didn't happen again. Children will be children even if we don't always like what happens.

This woman used to go to the same toddler group as us. She knows the reason DS lashes out is because he has delayed speech and gets frustrated that he can't voice what he's feeling even more so since what speech he did have has been diminished even more since he was severely ill in hospital in January. She knows it's not down to bad parenting and that we don't sit at home teaching him how to beat up other kids for fun.

Her little boy is no angel either. At toddlers her DS and my DS latched onto eachother and used to play together. I can remember 2 occasions where they hurt eachother. 1 was when my DS pinched hers and the other was when her DS pushed mine. I always thought we related to each other and when it happened neither of us got angry or even made a deal about it, we would sort of roll our eyes and shrug in a kids, who'd have em sort of way. I never get worked up about stuff like that because sometimes kids just do these things and she seemed to share that view.

I can totally understand her being angry and upset but I think she directed it at the wrong person. We put our children in the care of the preschool and so they are responsible for anything that happens whilst they are there.

If she's aware of your sons speech problems then she is doubly out of order. I wouldn't condone screaming at any rate (so unladylike!) but given she's aware of the issues, no, you are definitely NBU.

I was just trying to explain why a parent might react like this if they were ignorant of any of the other issues playing into your sons behaviour.

That...and you said chunks, which made is sound really quite bad.

I didn't actually see him so I don't know what it looked like but my mum said it wasn't a normal scratch. Chunks may be slightly over the top though I don't know. It was probably somewhere in the middle of chunks and a scratch.

I think nappy (poor you poor mum and poor ds) that you need to get the full story from pre school as it still seems a bit misty as to which child did it also they need to be aware of what happened with regards to your mum and the childs mum.

I think the strategy of saying no as youve taught your son is very effective but that doesnt guarantee the other child will understand or be bothered by it.

With regards to the other mum is it possible that once youve got pre schools account you could approach her (not with hostility) and say you see why she was upset and depending on whether pre school tell you more you believe xyz happened and if your son was involved you could apologise for him and explain about his illness(not to excuse his behaviour if he did do it just to say after seious illness development often does back track and they are still v young) and perhaps say my mum was really upset she understood where you was coming from but shes not his mum I am and if we ever have anything like that again can she talk to you about it.

A woman shouting at another woman in pre school really isnt ideal in view of other children and parents and I suspect the woman might (might) feel a tad embarrassed now.

btw it was probably a scratch that was a bit jagged perhaps an uneven nail and they tend to bleed badly and look dreadful.

oh she sounds like a savage.

I don't have the slightest sympathy for people who yell at other people in public, it's such lowlife behaviour. WTF ever happened to buttoned up English reserve? FFS bring it back.

TBH I wouldn't approach her.

Someone who thinks it's acceptable to yell at someone else in public is not going to be amenable to reason.

Unless she apologises for her inappropriate behaviour, I would assume there is just no point engaging with her and would let the nursery handle it.

My ds1 at primary was stabbed in the face with a pencil and the mother of the boy who did it was in the shop just in front of me - I heard her say 'ohh our xxxxxx is a right hard case hes stabbed a boy at school' I was mad and tapped her on the shoulder and said 'that was my son - look what your animal son did and showed her ds face' she went a bit red and said 'kids will be kids' the mistake she made was saying that in a shop whereby the owner I went to school with and everybody in that shop I knew very well so they all started tutting - so i said 'your sons a bully and you are proud of him id be hard with pencil in my hand do you think youre hard like your son?' ..........she ran away!! her ds never hurt my son after that.

I really can't imagine it at all. She's far from yobbish or anything. She's a Spanish teacher, always well turned out etc. Not posh but not common.

The preschool know that the lady had a go at my mum. One of the main staff was by the door and trying to calm the other lady down but wasn't quite sure what to do I think. They said they couldn't be sure if it was DS but the little boy said it was and he was trying to pull him out the car so it adds up that it was DS.

She knows about his illness and development so I think if I were to mention it she would think I was trying to use it as an excuse. My mum did she was sorry he'd been hurt and that DS had done it but she wasn't sure what she could do about it when she wasn't there.

The strategy of shouting NO is more to alert me than anything. I do watch him like a hawk but I'm only human and a quick glance away at the wrong moment can be crucial. If I hear him shouting that I know he might be about to lash out and can get there in seconds. The shouting NO does also stop the other child (although not always obviously). With younger children it tends to shock them and stop them in their tracks (but sometimes results in them in floods of tears) and with older children (say 3-4) they understand that he doesn't want them to do whatever it is they're doing and they stop.

I don't ever see the other mum now. We don't go to toddlers anymore cos he has physio then and DS is dropped off at preschool late cos he has hydrotherapy at 11:15 and preschool starts at 12:30 and we don't get there in time.

i think if i picked ds up from pre-school and he 'had chunks' out of his face - i would be liable to hit the parent not just shout. not really hit and i know its not right but i would be bloody angry. (SORRY)

Nappy hope im not speaking out of turn but I think this is really upsetting you - maybe you should just let it go- things are very hard cos your ds has been poorly and now all his aftercare perhaps leave it and see how it goes.

This is what I really can't understand. I can understand being angry at preschool for not spotting the situation and intervening. I can understand being upset and devastated that your child has been hurt. But I can't understand wanting to hit the other parent when they weren't even there to prevent it from happening.

Perhaps she has a lot going on and this was the final thing? tomorrows a whole new day.

It sounds like a heat-of-the-moment response to seeing her DC with "chunks" out of his face. Not the time when she's going to think yes, actually, it is the pre-school's fault for inadequate supervision and perhaps even the government's fault for 10 years of insufficient educational funding.

Sorry, if I saw my DC with chunks out of their face, I'd probably round on the perpetrator's carer too.

Perhaps I am the weird one then.

Oh nappyaddict. Am really sorry for you and your little boy. Try not to go over and over it tonight - spiralling worries are no use to anyone.

Look at it all again tomorrow and take it from there.

I wouldn't go for anyone either, if this happened to my dd - but I would have full on wobbly voice on with the pre-school. So I am weird with you.

Perhaps we are both just too passive

Passive empathic. I practically quiver when I walk

Way I see it VERY few [no] children are bad and shouting is what makes most children/people agressive in the first place. SO shouting simply condones lashing out, which is what she was upset about anyway, so, so, so, y'know...!?

Mind you, I did come over a bit 'shameless' when a lad in a noy racer car scared my dd by reving his engine next to her, then drove rouond to come and do it again. She was 4 and he was 24 [or something] so different case. So I can do non-passive, but would not have here.