8m check; HV decreed CC and cut to 2 BFs a day. I think that's debatable, but what I'm doing isn't working, please help!

[bohemianbint]

Baaaaaaaaah ? just got back from 8m check and now I feel like crap.

*DS is losing weight
*HV asked if he was talking ? obviously he isn?t, he makes the odd noise but on the whole he?s a fairly quiet (but very giggly) baby
*HV says if I don?t do CC now then basically my life is screwed
*She says he should be on 3 meals a day and only needs 2 breast feeds now, morning and evening.

I think that the BF thing is rubbish, even Gina Ford advocates more feeds than that. But I can?t keep doing what I?m doing -I have posted in the last week as things are getting on top of me. (Am co-sleeping and BF on demand.)

DS has been ill and teething and as such has been refusing solid food and BFing more (which explains the weight loss in the last 2 weeks, but I?m not very happy about it) Recently (partly because of the pain, I guess) he has been waking me hourly for a feed and wants to be latched on all night and I'm going demented.

HV today said if I don't do CC then things will never get better and he will keep on doing this until he's a toddler. I just don't think am cut out to do CC, I never had to do it with DS1 and it would kill me to do it with DS2. Although I admit things do need to change, but I was thinking more the no-cry sleep solution.

And I am going to stop offering the breast at night, which is going to cause all kinds of aggro but I can't do it any more. It's just that I've read so much about AP and it feels like it's going against everything I believe in but I just can't keep going.

I guess I just want to know if anyone has been in a similar boat and how you reconcile ditching what you believe is the right thing to do in favour of getting some sort of space for yourself back. I?m debating putting him on some sort of routine ? don?t shoot me but along the lines of GF. It worked for DS but then he just slotted into it and I never had to do CC or anything like that. However, he did stop breastfeeding at 11m which I think is due to the fact that the feeds were cut down and replaced by solids so quickly, and I want to avoid DS2 doing the same thing. But at the same time, I actually want to still be alive at 11m.

Can anyone help?

It's probably not too helpful but your HV sounds like a nutter. Talking at 8 months?

Although I'm not an expert by any means, I would think that attempting to do CC when your heart wasn't in it would just cause endless stress for both of you.

I have only read the toddler no-cry sleep solution but quite like it because it is flexible and you choose which speed and option to go for. Also she is pro-breastfeeding which several of the books I looked at weren't. Not sure what the baby version is like but for your sanity it has to be worth a read. And if you don't like it you can always ignore it!

I think your HV is archaic in her advice (that's my polite version!). I was told to try cc with dd2 and was so desperate for sleep that I tried it against my better judgement. Turns out that it really pissed dd2 off so she would scream til she vomited which made even more work!

oh dear, why does pasting from Word put all those question marks in?

Yeah, she wasn't the nicest cyteen - she pretty much said that she wouldn't offer any advice until I cracked and then she would explain how CC works to me.

Blloody hell she sounds awful! Can you see a different HV? To refuse help unless you "crack" is incredibly unprofessional.

I have the Elizabeth Pantley book, I haven't read it yet but I will start it today!

I can't keep bf on demand but I also don't want to ruin the relationship we have and cut down to the point of stopping. There must be some sort of happy medium?

In that case, I've revised my opinion downwards. She sounds like a bitch. And would you really want advice from someone with that attitude? Tell her to get lost.

Elizabeth Pantley in the toddler one says she fed her 4th kid til 3+ but with all 4 kids they dropped night feeds before weaning completely so definitely worth giving her a try. Really hope it helps cos sleep deprivation sucks!

Malkuth - indeed. What she said was that if I was still doing it then I was obviously coping and it isn't a problem, but when it becomes one she will run through it with me - as if that's the only option.

And she has referred both my sons for eye tests because I wear contact lenses, which I suppose is fair enough but again made me feel a bit .

ok ds is now 1 and i was in a similar situation a little while ago, we do vaguely stick to a gina ford type routine, stopped bfing at night about 11 mo and he has 1 breakfast 1 bedtime feed, will come back when kids napping

DS was slow to gain weight and I had constant battles with H/V(s). They wanted him monitored every week

In the end, I asked for a referral to a Paediatrician who assessed DS as healthy (at that time -- we later found out that he is severely dairy intolerant)

You don't have to follow your H/Vs advice, but if you are concerned about the weight issue, then see your GP or ask to be referred....

Pantley rocks. Many swear by CC but DON'T do it unless you are SURE it is right for you and your baby. Don't be pushed or bullied into it especially by this HV who sounds about 40 yrs out of date to me. And unsympathetic. And a nutter.

If it helps, we don't have a HV system here so when I came home with ds that was it. Actually I think it helped in many ways - when I needed help I sought it from people I trusted and got advice that fitted, rather than from a random nutter

I wouldn't do CC, sounds horrid to me. I have answered on your BF page - I BF Ds until 2 and at night and we still co sleep but I wanted a bit of space so we did gradual dropping of feeds - fed BF at night and then he was at 8 months waking about 3 times in night - about 10/11 (when we came to bed) and then about 2 and about 4/5 and then at about 7/8 when wake up

I planned to drop the 2 one so me and DH spent a few nights picking him up and comforting him and putting him down in the cot or lettin him go to sleep in our arms - anything just not feeding him. He soon clicked. He never controlled cried.

Then the 4/5 one got later until about 7 so it merged with the morning one. Eventually that left the going to bed 10/11 one and one day he just stopped. It will work but you need a balance of you time/ energy/ sleep for the BF to work in the first place!

Don't listen to your HV, no good at all!!!

Good luck

If your DS is teething then CC won't work anyway. You'll just all end up exhausted and bad tempered. You never know, things may settle down when he gets better.

At the very least, put off making any decisions until the worst of the teething and illness is over.

oh BB

I know HVs get a lot of bashing on here, butof he is only eight months and losing weight, then cutting out BFs isn't going to help him pile on the weight any time soon

I am in the middle of a night time feeding frenzy with my DS who is 24 weeks and it's bloody hard, especially with others on the go. Could you try and get as much milk into him during the day? dropping daytime feeds in favour of solids that he isn't taking too much of seems like madness to me as he will obviously want to ramp it up a bit at night to compensate. Better to increase the daytime milk feeds and keep solids low key imo.

when will HVs pass on the message that food is about new tastes and textures before the age of one and shouldn't be the main source of nutrition?

she doesn't sound like the most clued up or supportive HV tbh

Have you checked that the weight has been recorded correctly? At DS's 8 month check, his weight was shown correctly in figures but the HV plotted it wrongly on the growth chart showing a big drop in expected weight gain.

I wouldn't worry about the eye test thing - my two are having six monthly checks because of my dodgy eyes. At least if there is a problem it will be picked up quickly rather than waiting until the first scheduled check for little ones with no family history of poor eyesight.

It does sound as though the current phase is related to illness and teething. Give the Pantley book a read while he's feeling under the weather and then you'll be raring to go when he perks up a bit.

I don't know anyone (FF or BF) only giving two milk drinks at 8 months. Seems highly dubious advice.

I agree with Slug - don't do anything while he's ill/teething. BF = food and comfort in one!!
My DD would only BF when ill/teething and when that calmed down had to be tempted back to eating with "favorite" yoghurts, fruit purees and Breadsticks!!!

AFTER that you make the decision that's best for you and your family.
PS I don't think CC would work well with co-sleeping. But I never had the heart to try CC.

He's not gaining enough weight so you should cut out any calorie intake at night.
And somebody PAYS this woman to give out advice like that?

I also back to NOT do anything until current bout of illness and/or teething is over. I assume you are giving calpol or similar for pain?
Ignore the hv and avoid her in future. What a load of useless tripe. (Would changing GP's surgery get you a different HV - I did that to get the popular one that everyone likes, rather than an old bat.)
I co-slept with my 2nd and 3rd DC, and found it made life easier in general, apart from when they were ill, when they disturb your sleep a lot, virtually chew your nipples off, etc as you are experiencing at the moment.

I've never used a routine from a book, but mine do fall into a routine somewhere between 6 months and a year - incidentally my worst for this was DC1, who didn't co-sleep! The routine always fell to pieces when they were ill though. So don't beat yourself up. Get through this bout of illness and then encourage big variety of different tastes, keep note of what he dislikes-least, and keep persevering. Sometimes babes who love breastmilk only want finger foods as they can hate the feel of a spoon in their mouths at this stage.

We've just started NCSS, more for daytime naps than nighttime as ds3 was already sleeping through - and so far I'd say it's slowly making a difference. I expected it to be slow because I'm not prepared to even try CC so I thought it would suit us. Still in my bed, but I just wanted him to be able to drop off by himself during the day rather than falling asleep on the boob.

Ds3 is 6 months and still having at least 4 bfs a day, none really now at night unless he wakes up (rarely) - have just started some solids. So I'm not really sure what she's on about but maybe give the NCSS a try?

I had to post as I had both weight gain and sleep issues with my DD until she was about a year old. We had a massive fight with the HV over weight gain and her view that we needed formula top ups (which we never gave DD) so I didn't bother talking to her about sleep.

At 8 months my DD was having about 4 feeds a day and one at night - when 100% well. We stopped co-sleeping around 6/7 months as my back was killing me but brought her back to bed with us whenever she wasn't well. TBH I found she only night weaned once in her own bed for a long period - probably having access to the milk machine kept her feeding at night. When we were trying to get her to sleep in her own bed DH used to do some of the night waking as if I went through she wanted a feed.

We didn't do CC and I really wouldn't try it if you don't believe it's for you. I tried it for 2 nights and it just seemed to make DD very, very angry and impossible to settle. And she is/was such a happy child that I just couldn't see that upsetting her like that was the right thing to do. Around 11 or 12 months she suddenly just "clicked" with night sleep and has been a reliable sleeper (bar illness) ever since. I did read Pantley (didn't try her methods as DD started to sleep by herself) but she made sense to me.

We did start to look for a routine of sorts around 6 months - but not from a book, just aiming for two naps a day on a roughly 2, 3, 4 pattern (as suggested by someone on MN... ). So a sleep 2 hours after waking, then a nap 3 hours after that and then to bed for the night 4 hours after last nap. That helped a bit with day time sleep but nights were hit and miss until the magic 11/12 month moment.

I really hope you find something that helps you, and it doesn't sound like it's going to be your HV. Please don't let her get you down or make you do something that goes against your instincts!

Poor you - it sounds like you're having a really tough time.

DS2 was always a frequent feeder at night and it came to a head Christmas week when we were on holiday. He was in our bed constantly latched on and I was shattered. I decided that once we got home I was going to sort out the nights. He was 7 1/2 months.

I decided that after his dream feed at about 11pm I wasn't going to feed him until 6am. It took 3 nights of lot sof shusshing and patting before he slept through - I was like a new woman!

Sometimes too much milk can suppress their appetites reulting in them taking in less solids which then ends up in a viscious circle of night time waking etc.

My ds2 is now 10 months. We dropped the dreamfeed about 3 weeks ago so he now has 2 milk feeds a day (bf unless dh is putting him to bed).

I hope you can work out a way to tackle this that you feel comfortable with - lack of sleep is absolute torture, especially with 2 dc to look after

organised, the OPs DS is losing weight....cutting out feeds (whether night or day) which are more calorie rich than any amount of solids he could pack in at this age isn't the right thing to do I don't think.

and from what I've read on here, it's more likely that too much solids will suppress the appetitie for milk at this young age when milk should still be the main source of nutrition. Different for an older DC, but an 8mo old baby should still be on mainly milk feeds.

Losing weight and advised to cut down on feeds? Lord above.

My dd was talking at 8 months. Don't all babies? Oh the days she'd wake up, roll over and say 'nnfndkfaojdonfa'. It was like Shakespeare to my ears.

Has your hv spent any time with babies? You know, real ones?

Please have a look at Tracey Hoggs baby whisperer website and books. Also I think your HV is talking rubbish concerning the BF.Your Ds is going to want the breast more if he is unwell because it is such a comfort and will also go for the breast rather than solid food, this is what I experienced when my dc were sick.