If we were to consider bad parenting under one umbrella

[hobbgoblin]

To include the myriad of misdemeanours any of us might consider to constitute Doing A Bad Job, for the sake of argument...

What would you define as the cause?

My number one defining cause would be lack of sel esteem, please add to the list.

Okay but aside from trying to define 'bad/poor/inadequate...parenting Orm, what is the root cause?

I realised it was impossible for a group to agree on what is considered universally to be bad parenting so tried to phrase the question so that it was debatable form any pov .

The debate on what exactly is bad parenting is very interesting but I'm especially interested in what is at the heart of that.

I agree with the list OrmIrian gives and think that that many parental 'crimes' will fit somewhere under those broad headings.

I think you can contribute to society in very small ways. Not dropping litter, picking up dog shit, being polite, holding doors open, making conversation with people in a queue instead of being iritable and turnng your back. I don't think you need to have a hugely important job to contribute. It's all about making the place you live in better rather than worse. It might sound petty but a world full of bad-tempered self-centred idiots is a pretty awful place to be.

The most important lesson I have ever taught my DC is to care about others, and to expect that others will reciprocate. And more often than not they do. Most other things follow from that.

To add to the sum total of human happiness (to use a cliche ) rather than subtract from it.

OrmIrian, would you agree that in order to do any of the above from your last two posts, one has to have good self esteem?

Yes I would. Very important.

Sorry hobb. Was that a bit like pulling teeth?

i agree with a lot of the points on here already made, about poor role models, repeating the patterns of your own parents, being too involved in your own needs to consider your childrens etc.

Also the physical/mental things that can challenge the best intentioned parent: if you are ill, chronically sleep deprived, depressed, stressed etc that can (not always, some people manage fantastically well under mad levels of difficulty) have unwanted effects too?

I think someone further up made the point about giving children choices in their lives. I think this is really important. Not only does it show respect for their opinions and wants/needs, but it helps them to become aware of making decisions, and the consequences of those decisions. So for example, even though ds is only 2.10 i try to offer him some choices and ask what he would like.(park or beach? noodles or rice for tea?)

But to also make sure he knows some things are non-negotiable and why (you must hold mummy's hand next to the busy road to be safe. If you don't hold my hand, we will have to go back to the car and you won't get to walk).

A lot of parenting that worries me is when the parents don't stick to rules, rather than children. No should mean no (if its for a good reason, not just your convenience.) If mum or dad says no you can't watch tv in the morning only at teatime, then 5 minutes later gives in and turns it on just for peace, what message does this send to the child? I saw this recently and then the parent complained to me that their child never listened to them

I think the root cause is (either because they don't understand it or they are emotionally incapable of doing it) not 'parenting', i.e. being the grown-up in the relationship with their child.

Being the grown-up means things like providing boundaries to make your child feel secure, putting their needs as vulnerable people ahead of your own, making decisions on their behalf, showing them what it means to live in our society, controlling your emotions.

It is very hard to be the grown-up when you are tired, or have been abused, or don't even know what being a grown-up looks like. But unless you see yourself as the grown-up and understand what that means, then it is very hard to be a 'good' parent.

If the cause is lack of self esteem, what can be done about it?

If it is lack of self esteem, does that mean blame can be apportioned as it so very often is?

If low self esteem is the cause, is every parent responsible for sorting out their lack or are they bad parents for not doing so? Or not knowing how to do so?

I don't think lack of self-esteem necessarily makes you a bad parent (I can think of at least one v. GOOD parent with very low self-esteem). If anything it is more to do with lack of other-people-esteem!

I think some of the main causes are:

• Laziness - examples being giving in to bad behaviour "this time" (but every time!) to get an easy life right now, which teaches children that that's how to get rewarded; also the thing of letting the kids hang round elsewhere bothering people/getting into trouble because the parent prefers not to have them round the house causing trouble for THEM.

• Lack of knowledge/good examples (like, some people wouldn't REALISE that giving in to tantrums just encourages them, or wouldn't know about other approaches to try). And presumably this would be even harder for parents with actual learning difficulties or similar themselves.

• Not sure how to word this one, but - not having, or not being bothered about the qualities that most people consider to be "good". What I mean is - most people would consider a good parent to be one who teaches their children certain things - kindness and respect for example; but if the parents are not kind or considerate, they will not be able to (or not try to) teach their children that. I think the thing in the news today about bad behaviour at schools has lots of examples of this...

Selfishness
Instant gratification

procrastinating I would agree with all you said. Bad parenting often comes from an essential immaturity, and inability to reflect on an change your own behaviour if it becomes necessary.

I think that can stem from having been inadequetely parented yourself, but also from being inadequately supported NOW. To support the emotional development of your DCs, you need to have other people behind you, to support YOU.

Also agree with MyNameIs..

Inexperience is one of the keys I feel, if I look back at what sort of parent I was when our 3 were small as opposed to the kind of foster mum I am now I could cry for my children.

If I'd been blessed with hindsight I would have read more, asked more questions and been more open to advice.

OrmIrian I try very hard to instil this view of us all as having a social responsibility to others in my DSs. This is how I was brought up.

Conversly, I don't think my parents were "hot" enough on teaching about asserting yourself and having good self-esteem, so am also more conscious that I would like my sons to feel more self-confident than I did.

There is a balance to be struck their though, and i think some parents, especially middle class parents are so concerned about their children's happiness, and ability to express themselves that they don't teach them that other people have rights and feelings too. This can result in pretty bolshie, or attention-seeking children in the classroom

My keyboard is very sticky today - spelling awful !!

poverty

Hopelessness/helplesness/depression (for whatever reason)

Selfishness (stemming from poor self awareness as others have said)

Definately agree. Poverty is a major factor. Of course poverty leads to stress, so to me both are contributing factors to poor parenting.

I think it is being disengaged from the task of parenting. And that has a number of causes, e.g. depression, tiredness, being overstretched and underresourced (poverty, illness etc.), being poorly parented, never having grown up, substance abuse etc.

But the greatest of these is probably depression.

I think bad parenting begets bad parenting, either in the same form or in the form of overcompensation.

Also the exhaustion, shell-shock and general out-and-out craziness of the modern Western world plays havoc with anyone's instincts and compsomises the ability to do anything a) thoroughly, b)without guilt and c) without a whole raft of interferences and uncertainties.

Frankly anyone who ISN'T struggling in our society is a fruitcake IMO

I don't think poor people are any worse parents than well-off people. In some cases, just the opposite.
I think a lot of bad parenting is down to the society we live in. The "I can have it all" and the "I'm worth it" attitudes of some people
Being a good parent, for me, is about sacrifices and putting your children first.

Ignorance.

selfishness.

the lack of ability to prioritise your child over yourself.

There is the preposterous amount of pressure on women to "have it all" too - sadly what it really means is "do it all" - which isn't possible without a lot of strain and a lot of compromises one doesn't want to make. It's possible to work flat out without a break and STILL feel like shit because you're the only mother that didn't manage to bring home the PE bag at the end of term/decorate the Easter pot/fill the Chistingle donation candle/include 5 portions of F&V in dinner

purepurple I wasn't saying poverty prevents you from being a good parent, but it doesn't make it easier. (I'm talking about below breadline poverty when any small unforeseen financial burden - lost shoes, cost of a hospital visit - throws the whole family's finances into disarray)