Will my 4 year old daughter ever become potty trained ??

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, my daughter is just over 4 and is still wetting herself about once a day and very rarely does a pooh on the toilet. (Aaah)
It's driving me mad, as she tends to pooh in stages throughout the day so I'm always having to change her knickers.
If we go to someones house with her, she has to wear a pull up.
She is mostly dry at nursery, but holds on to her pooh untill she comes home.
I've tried treats for when she does it from stickers to hairbands ect. She gets loads of praise and knows that it should go in the toilet. It just dosn't bother her at all.
I'm going to speek to the health visitor about it but wondered if you had any tips or advice. Thanks.

we had this problem with my DD who is 4 1/2 now. It ended up with me just being very laid back and not bothering to make it into something interesting. Also made sure that we had a toilet routine + 20 minutes after large amounts of liquid/juice. It's seemed to work as she's dry 99% of the time now and goes on her own without a problem. If she does make a mistake she takes herself off and gets clean pants to.

Try not making it into any issue at all, I know I was getting worried and this I think passed into DD.

Good luck

Thanks, I've been quite stern with her when she does it in her knickers and have tried saying "all your friends do it in the toilet" and "Do you want to ware a nappy to school like a baby?".
Nothing works though. Those comments probubly sound harsh but I've tried everything else, I just ignored it for a long time. My MIL said that I had to try being more strict with her and let her know that it makes me cross when she soils herself.

Is there anything I could add to her diet to make her do regular propper poos rather than bits through out the day?
It's really frustrating.

I know it might sound odd, but are you sure she isn't constipated? I think when kids are constipated often poo seeps out and it is almost impossible for them to control. I think constipation is worse when kids deliberately try to "hold on". If this is the case, then a trip to your GP might be in order to find a way to clear her out.

If, however, you think she is not constipated but is merely attention seeking, then I had exactly the same problem with my dd when she was 3. It was deeply unpleasant so you have my sympathies. I've posted before on what worked for her, so I'll see if I can find it and post it here.

I don't know how to do links, so I've just copied and pasted what I wrote before. Hope it is helpful.

"I've posted this before, so you may have already seen this, but if not, this is I dealt with my DD (3 1/2) who would only poo in her pants.

I had tried rewards, reminding, books on the loo - nothing worked. I went to have a chat to the deputy head of my DD's nursery and we hatched a plan. It worked so well that that the problem resolved itself almost instantaneously.

OK, this is what we did. It might not work for you because your circumstances might be different. I admit I was sceptical of it working for us, but it really did. Incidentally, DD wasn't constipated at all and the issues hadn't started around a period of constipation. I think this would make a difference in how the issue should be approached.

1. I stopped giving any reminders about going to the loo. Absolutely none - very difficult to do! I completely left it up to DD to make her own decision.
2. I started saying, in a very casual and relaxed way, "Mummy and Daddy do poos in the loo, all the children at nursery do poos in the loo and you need to do poos in the loo to".

After a day of this, she did her first poo in the loo for four months. I fell over backwards. There were one or two accidents over the next few days.

3. If she pooed in her pants, I waited for her to come and tell me. (Previously I had pointed it out to her.) I then said "Let me know when you want to come and get changed" and walked away. This was to get rid of the usual game where DD ran away while I try to get her changed.
4. She had to help to clean herself up i.e. she helped to pull pooey pants and trousers off, and cleaned herself with wipes. I ignored her as much as possible and got on with cleaning yucky pants. I didn't comment at all, although did help a bit to get her clean at the end. I didn't give her any praise for wiping herself but was not nasty at all. It was all just very matter of fact.
5. I gave her new pants and trousers and let her get dressed by herself. Again no praise but no nastiness.

Throughout I tried to maintain a zen like calm!

It was only while dealing with pooey pants in the method I descibed above, that I realised how much attention she had been getting from me previously when she pooed in her pants. Previously I really thought I was giving her lots of praise for doing the right thing and ignoring when things were going wrong, but I just wasn't. I was cleaning her up through gritted teeth and making lots of cross, annoyed comments. Also, reminding her lots and lots, which of course meant she know exactly which buttons to press when she wanted my attention.

Really hope this helps."

MLL could this possibly link in with the others your dd has?

My aunty told me absolutely no comment or eye contact whatsoever on accidents with resistent potty trainers. She has been a nursery nurse for ever.

agree with cargirl - dyspraxia for example can cause poor body awareness and toilet control. ds was less reliable for a few months between 3 and 4. Even now he sometimes leaves it very late to go and has to hurry. Pull ups will confuse her, it is like giving her permission to wet/pooh even though you tell her otherwise.

'Thanks, I've been quite stern with her when she does it in her knickers and have tried saying "all your friends do it in the toilet" and "Do you want to ware a nappy to school like a baby?".
Nothing works though. Those comments probubly sound harsh but I've tried everything else, I just ignored it for a long time. My MIL said that I had to try being more strict with her and let her know that it makes me cross when she soils herself. '

I wouldn't advise making comments like those (i.e. quite emotionallyloaded and she could feel a lot of pressure as a result of them), incase you make it worse. She could either be impacted and have poo seeping around the outside, or it could be an emotional issue. Like poster above said, she could also be doing it for attention.

I would speak to your Dr or HV before it starts to impact on your relationship with her.

MLL, I think you need to think about the other challenges your DD has as some previous posters have said.

It is a fine line between accepting that it will happen and being too cros and making it become a power struggle/negative issue.

With my DD (who has since bee DX with dyspraxia) I was really to casual and said, "It is ok mummy will clear it up/wash your tclothes etc" and in the end her attitude was 'it doesn't matter'.

She still (aged 9) has a short reaction time, as it were and needs to go quite quickly after realising she has too.

Thanks everyone. I don't think it's dyspraxia related, (the weeing might be) but she goes red in the face trying to do a pooh in her knickers. She's quite blatant about it and when I say "You need to go to the toilet" she has a total tantrum.
I usually pick her up and sit her there anyway. She either screams and wriggles untill she comes off or she'll sit there for about 5 seconds then say she can't do it. I tell her that she'll have a treat if she does but she says "I can't".

I know if I let her clean her self up, she'd get pooh everywhere. I know she wouldn't do it propperly, she dosn't think there is anything horrible about pooh and she'll quite happily hold it in her hands. (I know because she did this at her Grandmas house) She presented it to Grandma saying "This should be in the toilet shouldn't it?".
My MIL was totally

Have you arranged any assessment or spoken in depth abotu all her issues to the hv. She may have consciousness on one level but little control iyswim , so not exactly deliberate. It may not be specific to dyspraxia but her behaviour can't really be dismissed as naughty. She can't continue like this when at school as presumably she may be there all day rather than just holding for a few hours of nursery.

We should be getting an appointment soon with the paediatric consultant. My daughters nursery teacher has said that she is willing to come with us to the appointment.
The SALT has been to the nursery so that's good.
It is a but worrying as she's not naturally a naughty child. She is very eager to please and crys if she thinks she's upset someone.

She'll be starting reception in september and it is a worry.

I was wondering in part if your dd could be using it as a control thing because she has difficulties in other areas of her life - an emotional thing like eating disorders often are. Or she could have poor muscle tone perhaps that makes it difficult for her to poo sitting down? Have you ever given her the option to ask for a nappy to poo in when she wants/needs to go - it is not uncommon for dc to find it tricky to learn to poo sitting down after having poo'd standing up for 2+ years.

Or could it just be her way of telling you she is worried about growing up and going to "big" school and wants to stay a baby? These are just my ideas of thinking outside the box on your behalf IYSWIM

Thanks CarGirl, I didn't know that it was harder to poo sitting down. Maybe she does find it difficult.
It could also be a growing up thing. She goes from saying "I'm a big girl" and telling me she dosn't need this and that anymore, to behaving like a baby. She does a baby voice and asks to be cuddled like a baby.

Her bottum is a bit sore tonight as she's been pooing herself all day. It's going in to her vagina too and I'm worried she might get an infection. She dosn't like me cleaning that area, it makes her cry but I obviously have too.
The whole thing is quite stressfull for both of us.
I asked her tonight why she dosn't do her poos in the toilet. She said "sorry Mummy". I told her it was o.k, I just wanted to know why. She said "Because my tummy is poorley".
I'm going to have to see the doctor about this I think.

Do you have a shower? My DC2 had undiagnosed gluten intolerance and quite often ended up sore like your DD and I would just pop him in the shower and spray him down. I do this with my DC3 now as he gets really sore when he is teething. The water is much more soothing than even the gentleist of wipes. You can also leave them to play while you clear up any accidents with out any fuss.

Thanks, that's a good ides for when we're at home.

You sound like you are going through exactly the same as me! DD is 4.4 and is starting reception too in sept and am v worried it will happen there. i too have tried the dont you wanna be a big girl like your friends at nursery and yes she reaaly does but all the time i'm getting accidents too admittedly not poos but we too have the red foo. sore to touch i just get her to put like a nappy cream on to soothe at nite. The only thing that works for me when she is going through a good patch is NO reminding let her take control and lots of drink which gets them learning quicker. i must say though i know lots of kids this age going through this and most of it is lazyness too involved in what they are doing sorry to say it but that takes a long time to grow out of

It's a nightmare, it wouldn't be as bad if she did one big poo a day but it seems like when I've changed her knickers, cleaned and creamed her, it's only a matter of minutes before she's doing it again.
She dosn't usually ask to be changed either, she'd be quite happy to have wet or soiled knickers all day.

I second what neolara said as my friend had exactly this problem for the past year or so (her dd has just turned four). She managed to put an end to it by making her dd clean and change herself on her own. She was shocked as almost overnight the problem was resolved. I guess by making her dd understand that ultimately it was her dds problem and not her own.
Don't know if this would work for you but it might help.

sorry mummyloveslucy I didn;t see someone had already given you that advice and you replied.