About to give up

[Lilolily]

This is my first post on here. I joined a while ago and browse around often, wanting to post but never quite getting around to it.

Sorry that my first post is this, its just right now I'm so desparate for advice and I honestly feel I have nowhere to turn. I should probably say that this is just written straight out, and obviously its not just this one issue, lots of things are incorporating; sorry if it doesn't make much sense.

I'm not sure whether its just the time of the month or what but I'm really struggling. I don't feel able to cope with general stuff. I was away recently for some time but it took about two hours for the novelty of Mummy being home to wear off and my twins were back to being brats. It's an awful thing to say but I'm not happy to be home.

Over there it was tidy, and quiet; the children did as they were asked, and weren't noisy or messy, and went to bed with stories and smiles and songs. Don't get me wrong, I know that its my own fault, and that I have to change it, and I'm trying believe me, but its hard.

I came home immediately from work tonight, in order to have dinner together, bath and play with them, read them a story and get them into bed at a decent hour, so that tomorrow morning won't be a repeat of this morning, whereby everyone left the house angry at eachother (sad, but not unusual). Things were going ok(ish) until we went upto the bathroom. There are bits of paper all over the floor. I can smell burnt paper, again. So I ask them about it, they deny it. Eventually they admit they have been burning paper again (ongoing battle) but can offer no explanation as to why other than "we just do it because were only little".

We have done everything humanly possible to stop them finding lighters, I have sat them down and explained the reasons, I have even shown them photos of burned children, I just don't know what else to do.

I am at the end of my tether really and if anyone has any advice, I'm totally and utterly willing to take it on board. My girls are seven, and I'll be brutally honest here, I feel like I have NO relationship with them. The way I feel, is that they don't have any respect for me, they don't listen to a god damn word I say, they treat me like a total skivvy, and don't help out even when asked (which is rare). They have no respect for the house or belongings, everything we have thats nice just gets trashed and so I don't see the point in having anything. At the moment, its like living in a warzone, I'm not a nice or good Mummy and they deserve better.

I have tried so many times, with the star charts, naughty step, rewarding, taking away priveledges, praising etc, but nothing works. And if I'm totally honest, I'm tired, I feel like I can't do it anymore. I don't know how people be parents, and enjoy it. I don't feel like I've ever had a relationship with them and I really think now its gone too far, it'll just keep getting worse and when they're teenagers..... I don't even know.

I try so hard and I fail everytime. I often think about just getting on a train and disappearing, they'd be better off without me. I never planned to have children and I think that some people just aren't cut out for it. Just because people CAN become parents doesn't mean they SHOULD, I love them so much but maybe I just wasn't meant for this important job.

Again, sorry to be so down on my first post. Any and all advice much appreciated!

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Burning paper? What do they burn it with?

Hide the mathes, call parentline, go your to gp if you think you maybe depressed. It sounds like you could be.

And most importantly give yourself a break. We all find it tough at times.

I am sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. Stick with it, someone on here will be able to help you with advice, not me unfortunately, but I wanted to bump for you.

How old are your children lilolily?

I don't have any great advice I'm affraid but I'm bumping knowing someone better qualified can come and assist but something you need to address immediately is the issue of lighting fires as potentially this will kill you all. Yes they are little and they won't comprehend the severity of their actions so you need to remove all fire lighting equipment from your house so they cannot get hold of it. How are they getting it? Are they not supervised? Seriously this is not just a behaviour issue it's a safety issue.

They seem to be able to find lighters, even though I only keep one in the house (that I know of) and thats on a high shelf. Its almost as if they plan it y'know? finding one and hiding it for future use (though not likely right?).

Obviously this is just the catalyst, the way I feel is not about them burning paper, thats just whats about to tip me.

I thought I might feel better (was away for a week) but I dont; I feel worse, like I wish I hadn't had to come back. God what an awful thing to say.

Theyre 7, yes they are supervised by DH, but obviously as far as he knew they were playing in their room, and we go to great lengths to keep lighters away from them so no reason to suspect anything. Last time this happened they seemed so genuinely sorry and upset that we really didn't think they'd do it again. But as I said, its not really about that, thats just been the catalyst, i.e. they don't listen, or take any notice.

Thankyou for responding so quickly, even if you've no advice, it helps just knowing someone has heard me. I have asked for help, I had some counselling for a while but it didnt help, 30 minutes once a month did nothing and when I forgot about an appointment they never contacted me to re-schedule so I stopped. I've spoken to the doctor, he doesn't help just offers anti-depressants which I dont want, I even emailed the Samaritans, but to be honest, I got the impression it was kind of "ok go sort yourself out now" after like, 2 messages. I don't know where else to turn.

MN is great - do keep posting, and keep bumping if you don't get a response - people are usually good at answering, but it can be a quiet time of day.

I don't have much specific advice (my DSs are smaller), but even knowing that you are not alone can be a real comfort I think. Sometimes I feel like all I do is say 'no' all day, and imagine that other mums are happily making daisy chains or doing other worthy activities with their children, but MN soon makes you realise that that's not the case, and there are some really wise people on here.

Lilolily - when you say you were away recently and then children over there were well behaved - do you mean that you were on holiday and your girls were better behaved while you were away with them, or are you talking about other children?

FWIW - I went through a massive phase of setting fire to things at the age of about 8 to 10. For me, it was definitely an attention-seeking thing - my parents both worked long hours and brough work home with them, I can still hear mum typing away on Saturday mornings, and I had a very dominant older sister, so was pretty much starved of one to one attention. I also stole things and pulled my hair out, so quite an extreme reaction, and I am not saying your dds are at the same level, but do you think doing some activities with them separately might help you form better relationships? Take one to the cinema and the other swimming the next day?

IMO - when things have really broken down, time outs and charts and so on do not work as the children have to care about the consequences. The only thing that works is changing the way you do things, stopping getting angry, giving them more attention, not less. I say this as someone who has struggled a great deal with my 3 and had to make a massive effort to get more engaged in their life.

Thank you so much for listening. I dont WANT to give up and I'm not cotemplating suicide or anything, I love them so much but to be honest, I dont like them most of the time.

I work full-time so its not even as if I have as hard a job as some of you who are full-time Mums, and I can't even get it right part-time, pathetic.

The splitting them up thing sounds good. DD2 is all about Mummy generally, and DD1 is a Daddy's girl, but they do gang up and sometimes I wonder why I bother to even speak cos they'll just ignore me and do it anyway.

Lilyloo, I realise that's not really the issue but it seems a really dangerous one. If you need a lighter for the gas hob for instance perhaps buy one of those ignition thingys or if just keep it under lock and key.

On the issue of not listening to you. I do sympathise. I have a 2.5 year old that already doesn't listen to me and it drives me to distraction. I have tried to set myself a day or two where I don't question, argue, shout or say no (within reason obviously) ie I pick my battles very carefully in order to promote some kind of harmony and it does work, we're all much more relaxed. It is not easy though because you can get into a bit of a cycle of negativity where you're all battling and all deterined you're going to 'win' the argument.

The way I try to look at it on those days in particular is that if I pretend I can't see her spitting her food around the table (for instance) then I don't have to say no and we don't have to embark on a battle of wills. Means I have more clearing up to do but I do manage to finish my meal in a stressless way.

I agree with whomever said you sound depressed. I spend a lot of time tourturing myself about how other people always seem to do things better and their kids are better behaved and I feel like a total failure at parenting because I don't enjoy it or it isn't what I thought it would be. But the reality is that no one is perfect. Don't underestimate what a difficult job you're doing and if you're trying to balance it with working outside the house too then you really have lots of juggling and stress to deal with.

Do you have a DP/H that helps with the domestic stuff so you have some sense of time for yourself and that you're not the only one doing the caring? Would your girls respond to the reward of pocket money in return fo doing little jobs? Doesn't have to be much maybe making their beds, picking up their toys at the end of the day but starting to get them to respect what you do and start to understand how they can affect consequence.

I'm really sorry I don't have any other type of advice, I'm sure other parents will be better equiped but don't want you to feel that you're going unnoticed. Take care

sorry you're having such a bad time.I think, awful as it sounds, some people will be reassured by your post,of course by some people, I mean me - I have some days when I am on the verge of tears... you need to lean on your dh a bit more and share the frustrations with him.
I think the idea about splitting the twins up for an hour or so while you both bond as individuals is a good idea.
Can you enlist the help of your Mum/sis/neighbour, organise playdates etc for them (and a cup of tea for you?)Happily, you are not alone, actively seek help with the kids, get them out of the exclusivity of their twin relationship (how American that sounds) swimming/dance classes etc
Meanwhile you need to plan more time for yourself so you can be strong. They are children but of course that doesn't mean that they can't be machiavellian in their scheming! Good luck and how fantastic you are to express what many of us (ok me) are too shy or scared to

Where are you? I scanned for whether you gave the DC ages? Can't see it!

This needs picking apart I thnk MN will help you.

I was away taking care of my niece and nephew (2 and 4) for 5 days. I explained everything to the girls before I said yes and they were happy for me to go, and I spoke to my girls on the phone everyday.

Maybe it is an attention thing, but everytime I try to change things, theyre the ones who dont seem bothered, and I always just end up upset again. I'm not explaining this very well at all.

Oh yes!Thanks, spotted it on a re-scan .

If you can just focus on getting a few cornerstones in place then you will be well on the way to solving this.

Maybe the way to tackle it is identify the cornerstones and then decide which are missing.

Um, cornerstones means 4 doesn't it..? so...

Consistency - tick?
Calm - tick?
Clarity - tick?
Consequences - tick?

How are they at school? Is this just a family dynamic or do they muck about in class as well? There are twin girls in my ds1's year who have been put in separate classes (at their parents request) not because they were naughty, but just to give them space to be a singleton and not always joined at the hip. I would also say that 7 is quite a challenging age - ds1, who is generally a lovely kid, was monstrous and defiant for months at about 7 1/2. I think it was about him suddenly looking outwards at the world, seeing himself having a place in it and not just as part of our family. My MIL said all her 4 kids had similar phases at 7. He's calmed down a lot since he went up to Junior school from infants, more interesting work, more sport, it all helped a lot.

Hang on in there - I do feel for you haviong such a tough time.

For what its worth I think the hardest job in the world is being a Mum.....I am 52 and have had 4 DS's and became a first time Gran last June. I STILL DONT KNOW WHAT I AM DOING!!! I got to raise my twin DS's until they were 7 months when one of them sadly passed away because of heart problems. BUT I can still remember that feeling of helplessness when I was at home with them. That feeling of not knowing wether you are coming or going.....and, also, that awful feeling of wanting to run a million miles away and sit on a hill - alone - without all the mental and physical work that is entailed with raising children.

People would say to me 'Oh you are so lucky to have twins!' I would smile and thank them and then wander away sobbing.

I have no great advice but just wanted to say that I think we all have times like this....it is a hard job. I do think you sound very, very down - unfortunatly (in our area) there is a massive waiting list for anybody with depression to see a counsellor - Im sure you already have done this - but are you in contact with a Health Visitor or a local Twins club?

If I think of anything that might help I will come back.....xx

When you first make changes it can seem worse for a bit. It's the unfamiliar territory and if you already feel jaded and exhausted, the reaction of your DC can just make you feel as though their reaction is justification for not trying any more and giving up.

We're all on our guard if someone changes our responses to us, so your girls will be unsure and probably even more testing just to check you're for real.

My 7 year old confessed he felt he was least loved in our family bcause he rarely got a bedtime story (this is because he always acts a twit at bed/bath time and has it removed as a reward). So, I turned it upside down and did everyone a story regardless, and found another consequence for piddling about at bedtime. Guess who rejected the story in defiance?!

We're still sorting things with him and it is thankless and harder work than burying my head in the sand about his behaviour but it has to be done because the bad behaviour is heartbreaking when you know they only act out because they are needing something from us as parents.