I can't bring myself to leave ds with anyone

[JamesAndTheGiantBanana]

My son is 19 months, recently I left him with mil for a couple of hours and he screamed for us the whole time. She didn't call us so by the time we got back he was utterly hysterical and she'd sent sil out to buy dummies (instead of just call us, to prove a point that she didn't need us) after him not having a dummy for several weeks.

It was the first time I'd left him with her awake (in the past we'd gone out in the evening when he was fast asleep) and it has proved I can't trust her. I can trust my older sister but I've still only let her mind him once. Dp has him when I have to pop out without him, but never usually longer than an hour.

I always feel anxious about leaving him, always feel the reason to leave him isn't good enough, always feel like I'm putting people out and not doing my job if I make someone else mind him.

It's becoming an issue because I'm losing my temper and staying up late at night just to have some precious time to myself. I don't know what to do, the thought of leaving him makes me VERY anxious.

Sorry but the only way round this is to start leaving him with people more often. Of course he's going to scream his head off if he's never with anyone except you. Am surprised you left him asleep with her - if he'd woken up he would have been very upset since he's not used to being left with her at all...
Maybe try going to a friend's or relative's house a few times, pop out for 5 mins, increase on each visit till he gets used to it. Explain to him that you will be back. He will cry the first few times, that's normal.
I think your mil was probably thinking of you and your precious time off, not wanting the visit to be a failure TBH rather than blatantly ignoring your instructions.

Time to start letting go I'm afraid...

Also - the staying up too late to have time to yourself proves to me that underneath it all you are maybe resenting him just the littlest bit for not 'letting' you leave him.

Train him to be happy with other people, for his sake and yours.

He's a really good sleeper, usually doesn't wake at all so we knew the chances of him waking while she minded him were slim. And we were staying at her house at the time so he'd been with her all day and would have known where he was, even if he wouldn't have been happy that we weren't there. Unfortunately, since he was awake, he noticed we were gone almost immediately.

I told her to call us if there were any problems or if he cried, and she didn't. I do see where you're coming from by suggesting she was ensuring we had some time off but to be honest, I'd rather be comforting my howling child than wandering round the market just because I could.

I don't know if I'm resenting him - it's hardly his fault, but I am losing my temper with him and thinking "go away" in my head when he won't leave me alone. I desperately need my space, I get overloaded easily after seeing too much of anyone, or crowds etc, need time on my own to recharge and when there's no getting away from people I don't cope very well. I know all this and yet the thought of leaving him makes me feel sick.

This does seem to be more about you, JamesAndTheGiantBanana, than about your son - as a future MIL (I have only sons, and maybe that's something you should think about for the future too) I find your lack of trust in your MIL particularly upsetting. Have you a reason (other than your own anxiety) not to trust your MIL with your son? (Presumably, she raised your DH OK?) You were gone for a couple of hours and she didn't contact you - what did you expect her to do, give up after 5 minutes and demand you return?

It's OK to leave him, he won't melt. It's even OK for him to cry and scream a bit, it honestly won't kill him (unless he has some medical condition you haven't mentioned). Otherwise, I completely second what Shitemum (who obviously isn't ) says. You have to get him used to other people.

Sorry but I don't like my mil. She isn't the root of all evil but she's the polar opposite to me and my mum who I lost a few years ago. When ds cries I speak softly to him to find out what's wrong and cheer him up, she is brusque and shouts WHASSAMATTER STOP BEING A BIG GIRL in his face, and picks him up and holds him tightly to her chest while he kicks and struggles, both of which upsets him, so of course he screams more. It's obviously how she has raised dp, and yes, he's turned out ok but ds doesn't like it and I don't like it.

And she knew I wanted to know if ds cried and she didn't call, which afaik is a betrayal. He'd obviously been crying a long time, his face was swollen and he was shuddering violently - it's exactly what I'm afraid of, and she made it happen on purpose by not calling us back after a reasonable time of him crying. That isn't motherly, so she won't be minding him again.

I know it's ok for him to cry a bit, god knows he does enough of it at home at the moment, but it's the crying because he's wondering where we are that makes me feel so bad. I don't know why but I think I'd feel easier leaving him at a nursery than with anyone I know.

Ok, so you feel you do have reasons not to like your MIL, but twenty-odd years ago mums were told to hold their tantrumming children close (I'm not saying your DS is tantrumming, he's a little too young IMHO) till they calmed, and maybe that's what she's trying? He won't understand the words she's using yet, so I wouldn't get too het up about that. Your use of words like "betrayal" and "on purpose" are a bit extreme, though, and there's no reason she should be "motherly" - she's "grandmotherly", and as everyone on MN knows, that's horribly outdated (but mostly not that harmful, honest.)

Do you really think he'd be any happier with strangers in a nursery than with his own grandmother? Perhaps you need to sit down honestly - and calmly - with your MIL (especially as your own mum isn't around any more, and I'm sorry for your loss) and talk about how you feel. Maybe she could reassure you in some way?

(I soooo dread being a "bad" MIL once my DGC arrive, first due in the summer!)

As an afterthought, when you left - when he was awake - did you tell him you were leaving?

oh 19 month old children can (and do) tantrum - no really they do! And most (admittedly not all) with have a pretty good grasp of what you're saying -even if they can't answer back.

Anyhow - to the point in question, I echo what someone else said about taking him somewhere and just leaving the room for 5 minutes or so and gradually build up.

I agree that 19 mo can and do tantrum, but there's (to me) a qualitative difference between that and a "proper" terrible-two's type tantrum. I can't describe the difference, but (to me) it's like saying a 9 year old is behaving like a hormonal teenager. It's the build-up to it, but not the same thing.

However, there's no point in us thrashing that one out, FAQ, because it won't help the OP, and I know a wish to help is what we both share! The child will understand the tone, but not understand that "STOP BEING A BIG GIRL" is an insult.

(Actually, why is that an insult? Sorry, wandering off the point there.)

lol @ your last line (and I've personally found tantrums from circa 18 months - 3 years are all the same )

Anyhow..........

A 19 month old can tell the difference between being spoken to softly and having someone shout in his face, whether or not he understands what the words mean (and in a lot of cases I'd wager he'd understand what the words mean).

And if you say to someone "call me if DS cries" and she lets him cry for two hours without calling you, then I think that warrants a lack of trust. It means you can't leave your child and say "make sure you use a child seat" or "don't let him eat X" or "I don't want DS juggling with knives" and know that she'll do those things, because she's demonstrated that she'll ignore a direct and very specific request in order to do things her way.

"Strangers" in a nursery are only strangers the first time. Very soon they are trusted (and, if they're any good, much-loved) friends. And if they try to comfort him when he cries rather than shouting at him then there's a reasonable chance he would prefer it, yes.

JamesATGB, do you have other people you could (potentially) leave him with? I agree with others that doing it gradually is the key -- so ten minutes building up to half an hour building up to an hour and beyond. If someone can take him for a walk to the corner shop and back, or sit with him while you go to the corner shop and back, then that's a start.

Back to the OP.

Did you tell him you were leaving, or did you sneak out when he wasn't looking?

Actually, I think you might be better off leaving him at a nursery if you can afford it. You obviously have issues with your MIL which will be difficult to deal with even if your MIL agrees to everything you ask. Too much water has gone under the bridge for the matter to be resolved any time soon. She may not have done anything wrong but you feel like she has and that is enough.

You might be better off taking DS to a nursery where you know the staff are properly trained (not that your MIL needs training) and can deal with childen who are upset. They will have plenty to distract him too. You can leave him regularly and he will get used to it whereas you might not be able to make it regular enough with your MIL.

You sound like you desperately need some regular time to yourself too.

TBH for me, the most worrying thing is that you haven't left your DP to get on with it for more than an hour. That is probably the place to start. Get him to take out your DS or go out yourself and spend more time without them. It will be good for DP to build a bond with his DS without you there too.

You don't need a reason to have time to yourself. It is something you need to keep sane. I know it is a cliche but a happy mummy really can make a happy child and your needs are just as justfied and important as those of your child.

bites tongue and retires elsewhere for the evening

Seriously, allowing to cry = allowing to juggle with knives?

I'm never having anything to do with my GC. Plainly I'm not fit.

Yeah he isn't tantrumming yet really, he has his moments but they really are just moments. Fair enough about mums being told to hold tantrumming children close, maybe that's what she's thinking, but ds HATES it and it makes what would normally be a quick whinge on his part turn into him being really hysterically upset until I have to get him off her (then he calms down, because I let him down - he's a hot sweaty sort of child who doesn't like to be held tightly at all, gets really bothered and grumpy) - it's just the wrong approach with him and she doesn't learn from it.

She isn't the type of person you can talk to, she dislikes me because she thinks I worry too much and talk too much - she'll ask me a question then when I answer it she talks over me or starts talking to someone else - I find it incredibly rude. Their family don't talk about anything real - all they talk about is what's on tv, what films they've watched, what cd's they bought... In any case she'd most likely think I was being overprotective, placing the blame all on me and not questioning herself at all. We are just too different to strike a balance, I think.

No we didn't tell ds we were leaving because we thought it'd alert him ahead of time when he might be absorbed in his toys and cbeebies for an hour before realising.

Off to bed now, thanks for responding.

Oh god, loads more posts. Sorry that post was in response to Oldladyknowsnothings post to me. Will read the others now/

bites tongue again

No. 1 rule - always say goodbye and tell them you will see them again soon. Never just leave or they won't know why you have gone or that you are coming back.

Don't make a big deal of it though. Quick kiss, say goodbye, see you soon and leave.

He will get used to it. Honestly.

Sorry, JamesAndTheGiantBanana, I know I'm Very Old and Very Old Fashioned, but In My Day (and I know advice has moved on, but I'm not convinced children have evolved that much in twenty odd years) advice was to say to your LO that you were leaving, and that you'd be back soon (they don't understand "in five minutes" or "in two hours") rather than just disappearing, which is discomfiting to LOs. I understand that you're anxious, but I do think you're better to tell him.

Am genuinely leaving this thread now, because I'm sensing a lot of anti-MIL stuff (even though it's not personal, and it's not from the OP, but I know when to retire from battle .)

Thanks for all the posts, interesting to see the different viewpoints. Oldlady I'm sure you'll be a great mil, don't take it personally that I can't get along with mine, I'm probably making unfair comparisons with my own mother who was gentle and caring, I suppose no-one is going to live up to that.

I have to confess that when my children were under 3ish (including DS3 at present) I've always done the disappearing out the door and they coped better with that than seeing me go.

But then my children have never really given a toss if the turn round and can't see me >>>

However would agree (from watching other children's reactions) that definitely beset to tell them as a rule.

Yeah in retrospect I should have said goodbye to him, but it was the first time I'd left him as an older baby who would understand more. The time before he was about 6 months and wouldn't have understood.

I didn't mean for this thread to get all about mil, yes I have issues with her but we don't even see her that often.

I really have to go to bed now, I'm exhausted. Night night

I didn't say leaving to cry for two hours = juggling with knives. I was trying to be lighthearted. Sheesh.

Personally, someone who thinks it's OK to let my child cry for two hours when I have specifically asked them not to isn't someone I want looking after him without me there. (Disclaimer: this is also lighthearted. I appreciate that it is unlikely that one genetic clone would be in a position to be left in sole charge of another, younger but genetically identical clone. I merely offer this reductio ad absurdam situation to illustrate the general point that closeness of familial/genetic relationship is not the be-all and end-all).

My father, for example, will be left alone with my children the day that Hell freezes over (as it happens, his health wouldn't permit it anyway, but the same would apply to a hypothetically fit father). Do I really think he'd be any happier with "strangers" (except they aren't strangers any more) in a nursery than with his own grandfather? Darn tootin' right I do. It doesn't mean we don't visit. It doesn't mean they don't have a grandfather-grandchild relationship. But I couldn't in any way trust how he would behave with them. Or not in a good way, anyway.

OldLady, you do sound lovely, really. You sound witty and intelligent and caring and all that good stuff. But you also seem to think that it's okay for a grandparent to treat a child against their parents' expressed wishes because he/she is related to the child and is doing what used to be recommended twenty years ago, and I do find that odd.

My own MIL, for example, does plenty of things with my DCs differently from how I would do them. She does things that cause me to quail inwardly and think "hmm, that's going to be a tricky habit to break". She does things that make me think "Why? Why would you do that? Why would anyone do that? Could you not see where it was going to end?". But never once has she ignored a direct request from me to please do X or to please not do Y. So I trust her absolutely and without question -- not to do everything the same way that I would do it (that isn't the role of a grandmother), but to not undermine my role as my DCs' mother. And I think that ultimately that's what most DILs want from their MILs.

(I hope you do come back to this thread, by the way, because this really isn't anti-MIL stuff. If leaving my DCs with someone for any length of time I'd rather leave them with my MIL than with my mother (not that I have anything against my mother). And if MIL weren't working full-time I'd rather have them with her than in a nursery. I have gone on record on numerous threads saying how fab my MIL is. I have nothing against MILs in general.)

You certainly need to find someone you trust 100% before leaving your child.

I rarely left my ds1 (pfb) with anyone, especially as we had no family whatsoever nearby. But by the time I had ds2 (2 under 2) I was much keener!

We used a trained nursery nurse, who also happened to be our nextdoor neighbour. Her mum (nextdoor obviously) was an experienced childminder and her dad was a firefighter, so we felt we had all bases covered for emergencies!

Another thing I used to do is I made friends with parents of other children through toddler groups and so on. At first we just had playdates and coffee together, but gradually we started leaving our children with each other for short periods. So I would have her children for a few hours one morning, then she would have mine at another time. This worked really well.