Non-native bilingualism

[ManIFeelLikeAWoman]

I am a native English speaker and so is my partner, but we are bringing our daughter (11 mth) up bilingual - I speak to her exclusively in French, her mum speaks to her exclusively in English, my partner and I speak English to each other. I know this is not a common set up but it is not without precedent and I know I am not alone on Mumsnet. So I wanted to see how many of us there are and how it's going, and to swap notes.

I'm NOT asking for anyone's opinion whether this is the "right" thing to do, especially from people who don't do this themselves; and I'm NOT talking about people who speak their own language with their children but take them to foreign-language classes. That's very interesting too, but it's another thread.

So - who's out there and how are you finding it?

PS not just French, obviously - the set-up's the thing, not the language.

Not doing it, just wanted to say my ds went to school (not in UK) with a girl who was brought up by her Afghan mum who spoke English to her. The gorl's english was excellent, but obviously a bit 'foreign'. but while it isn't recommended (to speak to your child in a language other than mother tongue) I was really impressed with the determination of the mother and the amazing gift she gave to her dd. So this girl is basically tri-lingual. Fantastic imo

good luck

I think as long as the child gets exposure to native speakers through being in the country, TV etc then the foundations of the language are there and the accent and idiom can be acquired later.

I think it's an amazing thing to do and really admire you for it. I think I'd find it too hard to keep up!

I planned to do this with dd in Spanish, which I spoke very fluently and have taught. However, I decided against it because in the event, it felt counter-intuitive. Inevitably, I do not have such a command of this language, despite my fluency, and I felt that I would be unable to properly express my feelings and interpret the world around her. I was also very much the primary carer (and am now in fact single).

I think the idea is perfectly feasible, however, particularly if you are both having an equal input into her language development. And if you feel comfortable with conducting your relationship with her in French, then I'm sure she will benefit! I do speak some Spanish with dd but admit I haven't been as diligent as I meant to be.

For what it's worth dd1's best friend is trilingual - her parents speak english to her (they speak that between themselves though it is not their native language) but they also speak their own native languages to her....so she speaks all three. She's now 16 and this has been the case since she was a babe. Seems to be no problem at all, you just must be consistent.

If you ALWAYS speak French to your dd she will automatically swap to that language when talking to you. When they're very young they don't even realise it's a different language - it becomes so instinctive.

my kids are bilingual - dh speaks Portuguese and I speak English to them. I could have spoken in Portuguese to them but it would have felt very odd.

love your nickname!

It will depend on how 'natural' it feels to you talking to your child in a language other than your mother tongue. You seem to be happy and comfortable with it - thats great.

Personally, I couldn't speak (continuously) with my children in anything other than German (my mother tongue) even though I've been in the UK for 17 years.... I mean, yes, I can talk to them in English, but I can't really connect to to them in English, it somehow feels counter-intuitive. However, several of my non-English friends have started speaking only English with their children since living in the UK (which I think is a shame for the children), so I guess it depends on the person's attitude and/or committment.

Don't really fit the bill, but my Swedish Mum started teaching me English when I was 5/6 and this has become so native to me that I've had no problem connecting with my own kids in either language.

We're doing this - dh and I speak English between us, dh speaks only French to dcs, I speak (almost) only English to them. DD1 aged 2.5 understands everything in both languages tho only really speaks in English (but if asked what something is en francais, she will happily answer in French).

Wow - rapid feedback!

Snail - is your husband English too, then? What inspired you to go for this? For me, it was something I'd always thought I'd like to try but wasn't sure if it was "allowed" IYSWIM - then, when my daughter was a few days old, I thought, why not? So what if people think I'm pretentious? Apart from that, what's the worst that can happen? Let's give it a go?

Cory - what you've got is what I'd like for my daughter - she may never pass for a Frenchwoman, but just having the choice must be liberating. I have it myself, but I've had to work for it - it seems like a "free gift" to my daughter!

Annasmami - a lot of writers distinguish between reductive bilingualism and additive. I don't think I'd have tried this if learning French meant she didn't learn English - but as she's getting both I can only see it as a bonus.

Wold be fascinated to hear more from all.

There's a famous longitudinal study done by linguist father who spoke German (not his native language) to his kids and mapped their progress.

I can't remember his name though so sorry about that.

My mother tongue is English - I often speak in a second language to my kids. I am still learning though so tbh my son who is 7 can speak it better as they are both learning at school

I think it is a great thing to do!
My ds does moan though sometimes - Muuuuuuuum speak in English I dont have to think then!!!

As a trilingual SALT I think it is weird to speak a non native language to a child, whether you are middle class Hampstead type doing it with Italian or a Bengali waiter doing it with English.

(Although obviously very much in favour of promoting all matters lingual.)

ManIFeel - go and have a look at the translators' website proz.com. There is a forum section (look under the community heading) where you could post your story and get some helpful feedback from others in the same situation.

Moondog - the man in question is George Saunders and he is my hero!

Except in the facial hair department - very ill-advised beard.

Thanks for that Harpo - will do!

S

Ah yes!
(He does indeed sound like a beardy type from what I read about him.)

Best of luck with the venture!

To be fair at least part of the cause of his beard was the 1970s, and at least part was down to having worked in universities, where the boundaries on such things are fuzzier ...

Still not right though. It appears to be a moustacheless chin and neck beard.

Was it a Joy of Sex sorta beard (accessorised with tweed jacket?)

How old are the kids now i wonder and how good the German?

I have professional dealings with a world famous psychologist who learnt and spoke Latvian ( I think) or similar with her children as her dh was from there. When her children went TO VISIT (AS ADULTS) ,THEY WERE TOLD THEIR lang. skills reminiscent of mid 50s in style as of course father had fled to USA as Communism extended.

Her dh long dead but of course they all still use it.

Fascinating eh?

It was the sort of beard you would see if you were reading JOS before bed and then had a nightmare about it.

The kids are (I think) 34, 32 and 27, or thereabouts. I wonder what their German is like, too, and also if they still use it with their dad and if they use it with their own children.

They do say that, in general, bilingual children who grow up outside the motherland come across as old-fashioned and precocious because they lack contact with contemporaries and learn everything from adults - unless, of course, they visit the target culture regularly.

Yes, interesting topic.
I grew up speaking Welsh to only my father (English to sisters and mother) while being home schooled on a tiny Pacific coral island.

Never really spoke Welsh to anyone else until 22 and I had curious Welsh, with definite markers of 1950s Welsh in my father's small village.

Welsh dh was tickled by some of my linguistic quirks.

I use Welsh most of the time now though.

moondog on Sat 24-Jan-09 19:54:37
"As a trilingual SALT I think it is weird to speak a non native language to a child,"

I have to say, my perception of what is my native language is becoming more fluid. English is not the language which was spoken around me in early childhood and it was not the native language of my parents. SO you could say it is not my native language.

But it is the only language in which I have ever made love, the only language in which I have ever written poetry, the language in which I write my books- it doesn't seem totally weird to speak it to my children.

ManIFeelLikeAWoman on Sat 24-Jan-09 20:56:10

"They do say that, in general, bilingual children who grow up outside the motherland come across as old-fashioned and precocious because they lack contact with contemporaries and learn everything from adults - unless, of course, they visit the target culture regularly."

Internet also helps. Dd regularly goes on a Swedish chat forum. Her Swedish is more modern than mine, because she is in touch with young people: I keep in touch with my middle-age friends from uni.

Certainly true, Cory - and email and Facebook-type sites too, of course. It's interesting to think how, like so many other things, we now have a "virtual" target culture that can be visited without leaving the home!

I have been told by people the same age as me that my French is old fashioned and I speak it with all ages. It's not so much old fashioned as just very correct (but then I blame the OH's family for that!). I probably stick out like a sore thumb as a non-native speaker though.