When a kid gains a 'reputation' at school, is there any way back?

[MrsSnape]

DS is sobbing is heart out. Says he is constantly getting shouted at during school. If a group of them are fighting, DS gets the blame for all of it. At assembly time he is seperatd from all of his friends and has to sit with a teacher BEFORE he's done anything wrong.
During class he is seperated from his friends and has to sit at the front with the teacher on his own INCASE he distracts the others.

And this is the best one ... On a friday when a certain teacher goes in, DS is sent to work in the coridoor on his own BEFORE he does anything wrong so that she can work with the others 'in peace'.

I know he can be a pain but I know for a fact he's not the worst kid in the school or in his class.

The other day there was an incident involving a boy in the toilets. Basically a kid was in a cublicle and a big group of boys were banging on the door and shouting at him and made him cry. DS WAS THERE. I'm not denying that but when I was discussing it with the head she said "he was very quick to tell me that the others had done it rather than taking responsibilty for his own actions" ... and the kid sat on the toilet had even said it wasn't DS!! he was just there at the time.

He's getting told off and isolated every 5 minutes and I know he's not making it up because a lot of it happens under my nose.

A couple of weeks ago for instance there was a row in the playground with a group of parents and I heard DS's name mentioned. Basically a 3 year old lad had been punched in the face and one of the boys said it was my DS. So the parents go in guns blazing complaining about DS before the 3 year old turned around and said "it wasn't him! it was (kid who'd blamed DS!). So what happened....both DS AND this other kid got into trouble for it but basically, the lad blamed DS because he knew full well the teachers would believe him.

I'm starting to wonder if there is any way back from this it makes me so sad to think of him sitting in a coridoor on his own whilst all the other kids get to work together inside.

No he is not stupid
but does need help and attention from his teacher at school

Not being blamed for everything and shouted at

It means he needs extra help but also that there should be some intervention above and beyond classroom differentiation, and the involvement of outside agencies. Is there any ongoing intervention as a result of the doctor's referral?

I would ask for a meeting with the SENCO and his class teacher to set some useful targets, with the school specifying just how they will support your ds in achieving them.

School action plus means that additional agencies (eg. Ed Psych, Occupational Therapist, CAMHS, Learning Support Service, Behaviour Support Service etc.) have been involved in advising the school on how best to support your son.

You should have been informed about any appointments made to discuss your son with these outside agencies.

School Action Plus does not mean that he "needs a bit of extra help". Was it the class teacher or the Special Needs Co-ordinator who said this to you?

ok, so the school sounds useless, what are your options?

• take him out and try home ed
• try a different school
• try to change the situation in the current school

which appeals most? do you think you will be able to change the school's attitude towards your DS? Is there another school nearby?

Nothing useful to add Mrs S except I hope that it all goes better for your DS soon - doesn't sound like much fun at all for him now

Isolating him on his own in the corridor simply isn't on. The fact that he is on SA+1 makes that worse.

They should have given him a mentor, someone who he sees every day to talk through how the day has gone, the work and to mediate where necessary.

He obviously does cause them problems but they are compounding matters in their "zero tolerance" approach, which has also had him blamed for things he didn't do.

It's so stressful when this happens to your child at school. I do feel for you .

Did you know if he is SA/SA+ you can ask for a referral to a local children's psychiatric service via your GP? I know a couple of people who have done this. Funnily enough if your son's pretty much normal but just being picked on/singled out, they might end up being your best advocates. They see so many children who are truly troubled that they have a much better sense of perspective than the average teacher on these things.

Thanks for the advice last night.

Apparantly he is on the waiting list to see the ed pysc but the special needs co-ordinator said I'd be waiting months for that ... this was last year!

The doctor's referal really was useless. It involved me going to these meetings and talking about better to parent him and they basically put all his problems down to lack of discipline ... so how come his brother is COMPLETELY different then? they're both parented the same.

As far as the school action plus goes, I've heard of no meetings or other associations that have been involved since they told me he was on it. I was actually told like:

"With him being on school action plus .... oh, you did know he was on that didn't you?" err no ...

Basically I'm getting no help or info at all .. school give me no insight into what is going on, just tell me he's disruptive and has to sit on his own so the others can learn

It was the teacher that told me school action plus mean "a bit of extra help".

You need to make an appointment with the head and teacher to discuss a plan of what will happen with your son from now on. There needs to be a behaviour plan in place which clearly states rewards and consequences for different behaviours so that you, the school and your ds know exactly where you stand and what happens for different behaviours rather than what seems to be random sending out and simply not dealing with it.

You need also to ask for an exercise book where his behaviour is recorded each day for him to take home to show you and to be sent back the next day. THis is not a book for recording moans but for recording different behaviours good and bad. This will be useful to everyone including the ed psyc as the ed psyc will only observe him for 10-20 minutes and needs paperwork to go on as well as what the teachers tell him.

If I were you I'd phone your council and ask to speak to the ed pyschs and lay it on thick about how you are in desparate need of an appointment and speed it up.

Agree with Hercules. Not least about keeping badgering the council. As someone with an SN child. I know that you get nothing if you just sit around and wait for them to make an appointment.

I do feel for you MrsSnape and know what you are your DS are going through.

DS2 Yr4 is "labelled". This stemmed from Yr1 when he had a teacher who came back from long term sick and could not cope with teaching. Because he is lively and did not "fit" into one of her boxes then he was the cause of everything that ever went wrong.

We had meetings with the Head and we requested that she get a behaviour support teacher in to observe. This happened and it was found that his peers were setting him up 90% of the time.

I remember when he went into Yr2 and I would not go to the parent consultation, I sent DH because I was scared of what the teacher was going to say. The meeting was ok and his new teacher had fab things to say about him. The next meeting, I had to go as DH was away. The teacher made me cry - in a good way as she said to me she was so glad I had gone as DH told her last time the reason why I did not attend. She was a great believer in DS and said he was a fantastic little boy who needed encouragement and praise and he needed to be shown his worth and if he wanted to lean over the table it did not matter as long as he found the lessons interesting.

He does fidget, he is not perfect, he is lively, but he has got a wicked sense of humour, is very bright but needs lots of praise and because of all what went on in Yr1, I began to dislike him and I still have a lot of guilt inside me about this because I did not believe in him when I should have done.

He does have an IEP and this was put into place in Yr3 but we are kept up to date with meetings etc on his progress.

I hope you get a positive outcome with all of this.

If he is on school action+ you should be attending review meetings where his IEP is duscussed at least twice a year.School action + is more than a "bit of help" and is only one band lower than a statement.

Demand to see the SENCO and find out about the SENCO code of practise for amunition. [http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/atoz/s/senpolicy/ here]]

This school sounds dreadful and although your ds sounds like a handful he obviously needs help and the school is really letting him and you down.

I really would look into alternative schooling for him as it sounds like nothing will make any difference in this school no matter how much you complain.

A friend of mine had a similar situation with a teacher in year 4. Her DS was a bit of a pickle but the teacher took an instant dislike to him and he was the black sheep for a year. He gave up trying in the end as he got the blame for everything no matter what he did or didn't do( e.g.didn't bother doing his homework as he would get into equal trouble if he had done it as it was never good enough and had to be repeated anyway).

When he moved up to year 5 his new teacher said he couldn't believe that this pleasant, if high spirited, boy could possibly be the devil from hell as described by his previous teacher.

If you can afford it I would see if you can get him privately assessed for dyslexia. Many ed pschs won't do this anyway.

Sorry let me try that link again- not enough brackets!
here

Nope still didn't work!
Third time lucky!
here

The behaviour support teacher witnessed something going on on DS's table which he was not involved in, but one of the children said to the teacher "miss, it was masterbellavita", the teacher punished him and he took it, because he was so used to being set up it was part of the norm for him.

No teacher should dismiss your son or treat him like that and the Head needs to be having meetings with the teacher to see what support they can give him not just walking past him - its as if she expects him to be sat there.

Mrs Snape I really feel for you. I've been in your place. It does sound as if there is some underlying SpLD that is at the root of this. Realistically your chances of getting a statement are probably extremely slim IME. You need to keep hassling about that ed psych appointment. Phone the LEA - have you spoken to the parent partnership officer? You could also write to the school governor with responsibility for SEN with your concerns.

MrsSnape, would you like to meet up with myself and Squonk for a coffee (we are hoping SaintGeorge might join us too).

Sort of a middle meeting point is I would say Beverley.

If you are interested, please e-mail me at

bellavita1965 @ googlemail dot com

obviously no spaces and . instead of dot

MrsSnape, this sounds unbearable. I feel so sorry for you and your son. To a much lesser extent, this happens to my ds1 (who is dyslexic, a chatterbox and a bit of a fiddlefingers - and get blamed every time anyone in the class talks)

I have read your previous posts - I didn't realise he was only 7. It sounds like this school is hell bent on destroying any shred of self-esteem your son has. I too, would be calling for a proper appointment with Head, year teacher and senco.
I hope you can sort something out or this little boy is going to be turned off school for life.

I don't care if you do hugs or not, your're having a big fat one from me{{{{{{x)))))))

....been there.

With a child of 7, too. My second son...

(his Mum died suddenly when the urchins were 11, 7, 5 and 5)

...yes, he can be extraordinarily difficult. Often he was the cause of problems, but not as often as he was blamed. The school is regarded as 'good', but has a surprisingly homogenous socio-economic profile. Few single parents, (almost) exclusively white, and middle income. Typically, Mummy and Daddy have a Megane scenic for their one boy, one girl families that have two weeks in Majorca every August.

...if you are a well behaved child that fits (or nearly does) this profile then you will be fine. My younger two are. It was very plain for a long time that they did not want my child. He received an extra long exclusion for a mild transgression in order to ensure he was not there when Ofsted arrived.

...eventually I pre-empted permanent exclusion and moved him to another school. In the middle of a notorious estate, again with a remarkably homogenous (though less salubrious) socio-economic profile.

The difference was obvious and immediate. They wanted him. He knew it too, and was astonished to feel welcome. They are well used to children with, er, challenging behaviours and so handle it much better. He is still far from perfect. But he (and I) know that if he gets into trouble then he deserves it. This is helping, as he senses that any punishments meted out are proportionate.

Incidents still occur. But with diminishing frequency and severity. His academic work is starting to improve, he is far from flying but is now up to expected level for age and improving.

...the younger two have benefited, too. They wondered why they did not get party invites, and were never allowed to their friends houses for tea. Now that they are not tainted by being 'the naughty boy's brothers' these things are happening for them. Everyone is happier.

....move your son. Find somewhere that actually wants him. Wish I had done it sooner.

...and with regards to statutory assessment.

The new school requested this. I received the LEA letter today refusing it, on the grounds that he is at expected academic level for his age.

What has that, I wonder, to do with the price of fish.

...so that is two appeals for statutory assessment I have to make (11 year old with AS is also at 'expected academic level for age' so has also been refused)

Bastards.

MrsSnape- I am a primary teacher and I a so sorry to hear the way that your son is being treated. Some people have mentioned statements. Unfortunately, the government's policy of 'every child matters' is a load of crap and it is extremely hard to get a statement for a child unless they are physically disabled.

Children do get labelled, which is dreadful. However, a decent school would do everything in their power to work with the parents to help the child.

I would ask for an appt with the class teacher and the SENCO. Discuss all your concerns and ask how you can work together to sort them out. Tell them you want regular updates and meetings.

Even if your DS is causing difficulties/misbehaving etc etc, they need some decent strategies to help him.

Keep pestering about seeing an ed pysch.

Good luck.

Thanks again for the messages and advice

bellavita, thanks for that, I will email you.

I am going to make an apointment to speak to his teacher on Monday and will ask all about action plus and what it means. I'm going to tell them I need regular updates and want to know what they are doing to help him and how often he is left outside on his own and why etc.

My eldest son (almost 10) told me that he was in assembly once and the teacher who was doing the assembly (loud and eccentric teacher) pointed to him in front of the entire school and said "you...where do I know your face? what's your name?" so DS told her and she replied "oh yes! 'MasterSnape', you're the one with the very naughty brother!? I have had to speak with him many times!"

Now DS2 wasn't in assembly this day but here she was, discussing this "naughty boy" in front of the entire year 3, 4, 5 and 6.

Apparantly all of the kids started laughing.