Please help me persuade my DH that is it NOT good to leave dd to cry?

[Caz10]

Well not cry cry, but...

I believe based on the very little that I've read that going to dd (8mths) when she is unhappy/needing something/whatever is the best way to build her eventual confidence and self esteem. The problem is I am not very good at explaining this to DH, and he just doesn't get it.

He keeps saying that she needs to learn that she won't be pandered to etc.

a silly eg - after he'd fed her the other day he left her in her highchair while he cleared up. She was obviously bored/uncomfortable/whatever so started moaning/crying a little. I would at this point normally lift her and just put her somewhere else eg on the rug with some toys (she's v happy to play independently for a good wee while) and THEN got on with the cleaning up. He thinks she should just wait and not rush to her etc . He is going to be doing a good part of the childcare and I REALLY don't want this happening a lot.

Could anyone help by posting a link or even just a succinct explanation of why I'm right?!

Or am I wrong?? Am I being very very PFBy here?

I assume

how do you know twiglett?

sorry, missed some posts there -

twiglett what you say makes sense - it's hard to discuss it without sounding critical though - I just want him to understand that I base what I do not just on instinct, but on what I have read and choose to "follow". He likes things to be backed up with written proof!

He wasn't at all sure re BLW for eg, I gave him some stuff to read and now he waxes lyrical as if he invented the damm thing..

aaaargh missed more!

twiglett i was referring to your 1st post there

"If he was saying that he was just about to get to her but had to do something first that would be one thing, but he's deliberately trying to teach her a lesson. Eight month old babies are too young to be taught lessons to. Ask him how he'd feel if he asked you a question and you ignored him for a few minutes to teach him he won't be pandered to. He's her dad he needs to learn to respond to her needs"

Dittany - yes, that is exactly the problem!!

and I think the other key point is that it is obvoiusly something that you feel really strongly about.
and it's hard to compromise on things like that, especially if you believe it to be detrimental to your child.

you do need to talk to him, tell him how important this is to you.
and more to the point, get him to back up his argument.
I'd be interested to see any proper research that says it's good to leave a child

Actually, I wouldn't just ask him, I'd give him a practical demonstration. At a convenient time for you, just ignore him when he tries to get your attention, and keep on ignoring him as long as you can. Then say 'can you see how frustrating it is? Now imagine you are a baby, unable to do anything for yourself and completely reliant on your parents...'

why is it "merely" communication? I get bothered by the attitude that kids are just playing up for attention, leave them and they'll learn. Yes they will but I worry about what they're learning.

Edam- I agree with your point when you put it like that.
I don't leave DS to make a point. I just don't rush to him everytime he winges. He never just gets left. He seems well adjusted. If i had more than one baby which i'm hoping. I feel that one of them would get left, not out of creulty just out of the lack of hands and hours in the day.

The thing is - dd doesn't know the difference does she?

a child could be left for practical reasons, ie to see to another child, or they could be left to make a point - it just feels like being left to them.

I think for my own personal case this is something i do feel strongly about, just as someone else may feel strongly about bf-ing, or giving certain foods, or whatever, and to that end it is an issue.

Will try to get dh to read the articles and try to explain how much it means to me

I was making the point that there is a difference between describing a whinge as 'distress' or 'communication'

but I am making assumptions based on what I'm reading .. have no idea .. parents know true distress when they hear it

No, she is not completely distressed, at least not as upset as she can get - but nor is she happy....I know she can't be happy all of the time, but I think we have it in our power as parents to make sure that they are content/happy as much as possible!

well good luck

you're right. when you ahve more than one child one or the other inevitably gets left to whinge now and then.

but that doesn't mean that it's ok to just leave them whingeing all the time does it?

what I am saying is that if you don't like leaving a child to cry, or whinge, or whatever then you do everything in your power to stop it happening.
sometimes it will happen. but you minimise it. not just say "oh, well she'll have to be left when she has a sibling, may as well leave her now as well"

plus, by the time she has sibling she will be older, and more capable of understanding why.

As hard as it is i think when your dh is doing the caring he should be able to do things his way.

And when you are doing it you should do it your way!

IMO neither approach is going to cause life long emotional damage

I'm sorry but i agree with dh. My dd has to learn to hang around in the highseat while i organise the rest of the family, bored or not!

If you don't let your baby cry or moan how will she communicate with you? She moans, you explain your busy and you will get her in a few mins.

So what if she's bored? she's not in pain. You will end up with a baby who will never play alone or be able to entertain themselves for any length of time.

The OP has already said her dd IS happy to play on her own.

You could suggest to him that responding quickly to her communication (the only sort she has at the moment) will encourage her to communicate more - and eventually she'll find new ways to communicate more effectively ie. words. It isn't pandering to her, it's listening & responding to her communication.

Have a look at www.askdrsears.com (I think) It follows the principle you are talking about I think?
From what I hear, babies who are left to learn / toughen up etc are the ones that become more demanding in the long run - and the 'pandered' ones are the ones that are more confident and content to play on their own / sort themselves out because they know that if they need us - we are there straight away - they don't have to throw a drama.

Caz10, I completely agree with you, when you feel strongly about something in parenting you have to see it through and fight for it...The problem seems to be that your DH feels just as strongly about his approach...
I had similar probs with my DS now 2yrs 4months...He was very clingy, bf til 3 months ago, and suffered alot of seperation anxiety (not at all as confident as your dd sounds)...my approach was attachment, my DH was to leave him to toughen up.
We had alot of fights, but the way I got through to my DH was by example...I explained to him what i was doing as i did it, and pointed out my son's response. WHen DH did something his way, I also pointed out my DS's response. WIth time he saw my way was easier and as DS got older he saw his behaviour was better with a gentler approach...This meant I had to let DH do it his way from time to time...but he is Dad and has equal parenting rights to me.
At 2.4 everyone now comments on the lovely, confident nature of my son and his excellent communication skills. I wouldn't have done it any differently, and in hind sight neither would dad.
NOW just wish me luck, my 2nd is on her way in 3 months and I think I will just have to clone myself
Good luck, and don't forget that with 2 such loving and concerned parents your daughter will be fine!

hi
sorry but i agree with paolosgirl and twiglett. and obv the OPs DH too.
i feel that by leaving a child safe and well in a high chair for a few minutes is not akin to the awful detrimental treatment of "romanian orphans" mentioned earlier it is a few minutes of a child whinging NOT a lifetime of neglect, ignoring and emotional torture
i know an 8 month old doesnt understand the difference between being left for a few minutes and being left for a longer period of time but she will not be 8 months old forever and she will learn soon that whenever she whimpers mummy will come running. i myself was in the same frame of mind when my DD was younger. as i ran to her at every murmur, whimper etc she soon learned that she could get alot of attention by doing just that. i now have a 2.8yo who is so demanding and fully expects me to come running EVERY TIME she makes any sort of whimper. i fully believe i made a rod for my own back by 'pandering' to her every whim. i dread to think what she will be like when we have another DC (working on the concept)
i think that alot of 'research' into this topic is unreliable as people lie when questioned to make them seem 'better' and there could never be a totally reliable mass case study as people dont know how they will parent until faced with the reality. you find your own way and with the exception of the abusive, no persons parenting is a wrong way to do it it is THEIR way which suits THEM best.
OP you need to discuss a way to come to a compromise with your DH and as he is going to be the main carer for your DD you will have to accept that you will have no control over how he parents while you work. it is something you need to come to terms with that or you will be totally unable to concentrate when you do return to work.
xx ei xx

QueenyEisGotTheBall that is really interesting, as I really did believe the attachment type theories but maybe it is not so clear cut

i work with (much) older children, and "bad" behaviour is very often attention seeking, looking for the attention they don't get at home

All she is learning is that you have to make a noise for at least a minute to get dad to do what you want.

So he is setting himself up for more not less whinging.

Does he ignore her, or say reassuring things like. "I'm just putting this cup in the kitchen and then I'll lift you out."

While I really don't think a minute or two having a whinge is going to scar your otherwise happy baby, I don't think it's right to say that "distress" should warrant a response but "communication" shouldn't. An 8 month old baby has no other way of communicating so by ignoring her only method of attracting attention Caz10's DP isn't teaching her she won't be pandered to, he's just teaching her that her attempts at communicating with him will not get a response. Mosts dads, if they thought of this situation in those terms, would probably renege on the whole "pandering" crap. You can worry about pandering when she's old enough to make it clear that's what she wants. Right now she's only old enough to make clear that she wants something. Also you're likely to end up with a baby who hates the high chair, and all the associated trouble that's going to bring.

My DP was very much this way when DS was a few weeks old. I really had some big battles with him about it, but I knew deep down DS was crying for good reason and needed us. I stuck to my guns and within a few months DP had come to realise I was right, and for our baby at least, leaving him to cry was counterproductive. Unfortunately DS had to do a bit of crying with DP before he got the message, though .

Now, the baby who was forever carted round in a sling, napped on us and had his every whim pandered to is an independent little sod who won't even sit still for a cuddle - so there's your DP's theory blown out of the water!