how do I discipline my suddenly demonic 5 year old?

[gemmiegoatlegs]

please can someone tell me as I have totally lost the plot. My ds turned 5 last week and, whilst he has never been the easiest child, he is behaving really badly . The last few months have been getting worse and worse. The bad behaviour is mostly reserved for me as he wouldn't dare play my dh up in the same way. He does have an occasional bad day at school, once a fortnight or so, where he has done things like flooded the toilets, spat at another child, engaged in dangerous things when specifically TOLD NOT TO!

At home i am starting to dread the weekends. He lords it over my dd (2) and pushes her around, he refuses to do the simplest things like getting dressed. I think the Naughty Step has outgrown its purpose as he sits happily for 5 minutes and comes back in a foul mood ready to kick off again. i physically have to remove him from the room to the step sometimes and when i do he lashes out, bites, kicks scratches me. Today he raked all down my arm with his nails. He also tries to spit at me.

Now I thought i was a really good mum, i am consistent, I do all sorts of activities, bake my own biscuits and spend loads of time with my kids but ds obviously thinks I am a soft touch to be walked over.

So how do you discipline kids when they are no longer babies? As I said, we do the naughty step, I try to ignore the bad and praise the good things, the last few months we have been withdrawing privileges, taking a toy away for the day, not letting him stay up for the movie etc. Tonight I have put him to bed early, whilst i played with dd, partly a punishment for him and partly for poor dd who is pushed in the background as he wreaks havoc.

How can i get control before we have to call in the blardy supernanny?

please?

anyone? [desperate emoticon]

I am absolutely no expert and DS hasn't quite reached 5 but didn't want to leave you unanswered.

Personally I don't ignore the bad things, I clamp down with them and deal with them there and then as I want him to know that they aren't acceptable and he is in no doubt of the boundaries I set.

Hopefully someone far wiser than me will be along in a minute with something much more helpful.

Sorry you are having such a hard time, and it seems like you are trying all the right things too, like the positive behaviour reinforcement too.

Have you spoken to school about how they deal with misbehaving?

You say he is worse with you - would it help if your DH took him out on their own sometimes at the weekend to give you and younger child a break and a bit of time together? Or the other way around - if he is jealous of your DD, maybe you could arrange some time alone with him?

Good luck!

Agree with don't ignore the bad things. I've witnessed some atrocious behaviour of small children eg in the bank queue where the mum has ignored it, and I and I suspect everyone else in the bank was itching to give the little bxxxxx a smack on the bum .

I think a short sharp talking to, face to face to express how disappointed you are with this behaviour plus whatever punishment you think appropriate is all you can do.

You're already doing the right thing by withdrawing toys etc, the main thing is to do it immediately so they get the link.

Oh dear you really are having a tough time .
Are there certain things that start the bad behaviour off? What nice things does he do? Tell me about your average day.

Funny age, I think they are trying to find out what it means to be a 'big boy' so watch out for stroppy influences!
Personally, I think star charts work a treat at this age, esp if you introduce pocket money as the reward or a book/toy they really want.
I think also you as a parent are adjusting to having an older child and that can lead to indecision.
By this age you can talk things through more and have more'grown up' conversation about why you don't like particular behaviour.
I hope some of this helps

Also wanted to add that they respond rwally well to having more responsibility at this age eg their own shopping list when you all got to the supermarket or pockeet money for tidying their room, even asking to help teach the little ones their colours or something like that
I could go on and on but will back off now...

bump.
My 4 year old seems to be on the same path.
Everybody says blame it on the hormonal surge but that's not really helpful dealing with the actual behaviour
Mine plays up mainly end of day when it's time to start evening routine. He basically just wants to carry on playing.
He's also into fighting games (Taekwondo - pirates - etc...) and does not understand that we do not find it amusing ALL DAY.

the main things that work for us as punishment
-withdrawing him from situation/banning play with equally aggressive playmates

• immediately withdrawing favorite toy for24h

-encouraging gentle behaviour and postponing reward until weekend

• threatening to withdraw evening story and goodnight cuddle.

Positive encouragement

• taking time to sit down with him and do a winding down crafty activity

-tickling/giggling match

• one on one outing (I also have a baby DD)

Await to hear more

My DS1, who is 5, is occasionally demonic. I've found that (with him at least) it is ALL to do with my attention. If I can somehow find the time to take him away from DS2 for five minutes and have a proper conversation/hug with him, he will almost always behave decently afterwards. His worst behaviour seems to coincide with me paying attention to something else.

Also, I try to keep reminding myself that he is still very young. I think children with younger sublings can have a rough time sometimes because parents expect too much of them.

My nuclear option is to put him in his room and shut him in there until bed-time, missing dinner (I put a sandwich and apple in there for him, plus a bottle of water). I've only done this once (when he had raked my arms with his nails in the way you describe, on top of throwing a completely hysterical paddy), but it was quite effective - he hasn't behaved that badly since. Of course the punishment is effective if it's something that happens rarely, if ever.

Slim. I can understand what you mean but if he wants to fight, this is normal for some boys because of the testosterone (sorry). He'd benefit from a sports club, football etc, where he can run around and release his energy. When you ban him from playing from equally as agressive playmates you are treating him unfairly. He will see this as unfair because they are behaving in the same way. Withdrawing favourite toy for 24 hours won't work either as he has other toys. Postponing rewards until the weekend is too long, he'll forget. Goodnight cuddles and reading should NEVER be withdrawn as the child interprets this as mummy/daddy don't love me. Tickling (from personal experience) encourages them to be loud. (sorry about this, I really am).

It's really hard to be a parent. I may have been a nanny and had a few child qualifications but I don't get it all right. I don't mean to criticise what you are doing.

It sounds like your little one has alot of energy, which is natural. He really would benefit from being in a sports club so that he could burn it off and be part of a team. I would do a star chart, 1 star in the morning if all is well, 1 at lunch, 1 at 4pm, 1 before bed. Put it somewhere so he can see how he's doing, a treat at the end of the week if he has mostly stars. If his friends are boysterous you can't expect him not to join in. I'm sorry but this is unreasonable. If you are unhappy about this then have a hunt for some friends that are less hyper.

You can be evil back now

i could have almost written your op about my ds2 who will be 5 in 2 weeks.he was settling down but the past few weeks have been awful again

i wouldnt mind but i have a ds of 10 and a dd of 9 so its not like i havent 'done' this age before.however,ds1 is not a boisterous 'lad' so its the first time ive delt with such things.

Avenanap thx for reply.

He does swimming and Taekwondo and his Taekwondo Master is great at teaching them how to channel their energy in a positive respectfull way. But you are right, I think he needs a group sport activity. I've just had a baby and DH rubbish at waking up early during weekends. I will get my act together and take him to rugby practice sunday morning as of september.

Banning aggressive play works for us. Not unfair imo. Don't see any reason to let him indulge in bad behaviour and I do tell him that their parents would tell them of too if they saw it. When they are in my custody I tell off his mates too.
They can run around being loud and play with soft swords but not engage in dangerous bashing.

I encourage him to play with others too but at last weeks class party we realised all our boys (and some girls) have turned into little devils this last term.

Withdrawing favorite toy works for us as he is very exclusive and completely into role play. He'll be all pirates for weeks, then all zoo animals etc...
At the moment it's kung Fu panda. I just remove the whole lot. All related things.
It just distracts him from the current obsession and it's the only way to get him to sit down and do something else.
He becomes so engrossed in play with his current favorites it's scarry.
Videogames is certainly something that will not enter my household!

Agree with your take on the the goodnight routine. That a desperate measure really. And only a threat. And I feel awful using it. I never have the strenght to follow that one through. Innefective. I should definitely stop.

what you said about the frequency of the serious punishments really rings a bell policy . It seemed like things started to get worse so i threatened more, the threats stopped working so the withdrawals of privilege begun, they don't work anymore so whats next? I feel like i am completely out of options . i even threatened to "smack his arse" today (which is something i would never do...i just don't know what else will work.

I am feeling frustrated but i am such a slow fuse generally it takes me forever to lose my temper. dh loses his and seems to get more joy out of him. I keep on telling dh that whilst we can take his 'things' away, I can't withdraw my love and support. maybe thats the problem that he knows i am his no.1 fan even if he kicks and claws me or bites a kid at school...

I think i will try the star chart thing again...we have used one previously to get the dcs to stay in their rooms on a morning. it would be nice to have something positive to focus on when everything else seems so crappy. The only thing is the little sod is so spoilt his reward would have to be a hovercraft or similar!

Ahh. Never threat because you'll be expected to follw through. If you don't he'll never do as he's told. When ds was born (he's 9 now), I vowed never to have plastic guns or plastic swords in the house. He still plays like this though. I've seen him with his friends, they ever pretend that sticks are guns. It would be wrong for me to tell him not to do this when all of his friends are. I explain to him why I don't like him pretending to shoot people and he looks ashamed if I spot him. It is natural for boys. I don't know why and I really hate it but it's something that all of them go through.
Star charts do work with this age group. They also like to be responsible for something, like putting the milk bottles out or laying the table. Boys like to feel useful and they like the praise afterwards.

good luck gemmiegotlegs

oh he is useful avenanap, he does the vaccuuming, dusting and mops floors - perhaps i could get him a job as a domestic (or up the chimneys???) and get him out of the house 9-5!

yes the responsibility thing works
He "looks after " DD or we do "grocery treasure hunt " on supermarket trips and he measures ingredients when baking cooking and he proudly presents his dad with whatever HE cooked etc.....

I have the same problem as you gemmie as he knows I'm his biggest fan.

Gemmie, a reward doesn't have to be something material. It can also be your time. Maybe make some cakes together at the weekend or a trip to the park. Something that you are already planning on doing together but you have not told him. I wouldn't do the material because it might give him the message that he'll have a present if he's good so he'll expect it every week. He'll bankrupt you!
Maybe he wants you to lose your temper. It can be a positive thing because it sets the boundaries, which makes them feel more secure. You should sit him down and make a contract of what behaviour you expect from him, a bit like house rules, with the effect if he breaks the rule. Put it next to the star chart so that he can see it. If he doesn't read well then draw the pictures. He knows that you love him regardless which is good but you really do need to stop him from hurting you. If he's trying to scratch you then hold his hands so he can't or walk away and close the door on him. Ignore him until he's ready to appologise. It upsets loving and afectionate children for a parent to do this, then tell him how much his behaviour has upset you and how disgusted you are in how he has choosen to behave. Children this age are unable to see how their behaviour affects others so it helps to be told. Keep telling him about the nice, helpful things that he does and how they make you so proud and happy. This needs to be straight after, like a telling off or else he'll forget or think that you've ignored it.

I tried to get ds up the chimney, I've been feeding him though so he wouldn't fit. Bugger! ds's jobs are to take his plates in the kitchen, put his dirty clothes in the wash, to check the patio door before we go out to make sure it's locked and to check the hampster has enough food. He's too old for a start chart so he collects beans in return for pocket money.

thanks avenanap, the bhaviour contract sounds like a workable idea, I will sit down with him tomorrow

again, he is pretty much spoilt for time as well as material things...i am a student so in the middle of a 5 month long holiday. Whilst I am off i do all the school pick ups/arts n crafts/trips out/park on bikes stuff. I also try to fit in activities for the two of us when dd has her naps, where we just do whatever he wants. Maybe I'm giving him too much? Me and dh often tell him "you don't know when you're having a treat". We will be moving house soon and hopefully having a big garden and living in a quiet street will give us the opportunity to have some safe space away from each other

how old is he avenanap?

ds is 9. He's lovely and very bright but has a few social problems with us mere mortals with normal IQ's. There's a difference between being in the house with them time (the one where you are cooking the tea and they are playing) and real time (where you turn the TV off and play a game or bake some cakes). They can get so use to having treats that they expect them. It's really easy to get stuck like this, you'll have to wean him off, leave gaps that get increasingly bigger or go cold turkey and tell him you have no spare money. Are you talking an every week treat?

things like meals out, trips to the soft play centre and swimming happen most weeks, the little things like baking, movie night, parks, games afternoons, friends to tea happen very regularly too. Tomorrow he will wake up like in prisoner cel Block H on a treats cold turkey - lol!

gemmie.
Sounds very much like our life.

Avenanap, surely what gemmie just described above is not "treats"?