At what point is it past kids being kids and all kids do it?

[itati]

Just lately my children have all been hitting each other, they are 7.3, almost 5 and 3. One hour ago the 4 year old hit her older brother with a spoon on the head so hard it bled. It took us a few minutes to realise it was bleeding and once we had cleaned him up, I took him to a first aider to look at. She said her kids fight and all kids do it. She made his head bleed. I can't in all honesty believe that this is kids being kids and I have just got to accept it.

If it makes you feel better my brother hit me with a tennis bat when I was 8 and he was 10 - I had to have 7 stitches. We get on really well now - my mother almost fainted with shock when I went to stay with him at uni..
I think when you're kids you don't think through your actions e.g 4yr old not aware how hard he hit your dd... they will grow out of it eventually

My dss fight a lot, it's drives me to distraction.

I am not sure I can take much more tbh.

I just bought a book from Amazon called Siblings without rivalry, I am hoping that it will help me deal with the boys. At the moment I punish them both whenever and whatever happens.

I have that book after a kind MNetter sent it to me but I haven't finished it yet.

Any good?
I now make dcs get dressed in different rooms so that the things I need them to do they do without fighting.
Could you try morning and evening chats? A safe house within the house? Rooms that are real no nos.

Another bad morning.

DD hit DS2.

DS2 hit DD.

DD refused to put her socks and shoes on and threw her socks out in the rain. Complained about having her coat fastened against the rain and hit DS2 again when in the car.

DS1 was lovely.

Shouting/smacking doesn't work. Whatever we try they come up with someone else to test us.

Yes. kids fight and argue, it's part of growing up and learning self control and respect.
They WILL fight but they have to be taught/shown how to deal with conflict in a better way and that is what parents are there to do.

Something else I am clearly failing at

failing? Why?

you need a pasta jar star chart type thingy me reckons.

with whatever positive thing ( money, sweets, trip to library, staying up late)

give incentive daily - rather than weekly.

use the rivalry to your own ends [grin

the best person at bed time

the most helpful kid

the best behaved

the quickest to put shoes on

whatever

we use the pocket money as a bribe, when they wer younger it was pennies/pasta in a jar..they [now] have a set amount each week and if they are disciplined..i give a warning and i count down from 5..saying i will take money off them and sometimes by the end of the week they have lost some or all of their pocket money and once i threatened to give it to the other child that got hurt..that really bothered them!!!
But when they play nicely together i really praise them ! it doesnt always work but it helps honestly..you could try them earning pennies as theyre a bit younger than mine and when theyre good give them the money..actually physically give them the money so they can put it in their special pot themselves..remind them it will be taken away if they hit...
i also find they love having jobs to do.. one hoovers and one dusts.they sort out toy cupboards looking for broken toys..by no means are my two saints in any way..i have days where i threaten to give them away kids are unfortunately lways going to fight

Do you mean because your kids are fighting/ whining/ driving you mad with their constant petty demands?

In that case I am failing too and so is every mother on MN.
Of course you are NOT failing, bringing up kids is a constant slog and sometimes it takes a looooong time to see the results of the lessons we try to instill.
Just keep going, be firm about what you expect annd try different methods of discipline/ reward until you get one that suits particular child.

I feel I am failing as I honestly do not know what I am doing.

I was a brilliant nanny but this is different.

I never had a mother or father (past birth, obviously!) and so no one to learn from.

I just want to cry all the time.

MIL has just phoned and said the kids will rule me and I have told her they already are.

Itati - first of all, you have three kids. You are outnumbered and to be admired if you can keep going at all! I take my hat off to anyone with more than two who stays sane.

Second, things always get worse at this time of year in our house. Just when I think I should be enjoying summer the kids get end-of-term-itis and drive me up the wall. I know that the beginning of the holidays is often bad too, when they get beginning-of-term-itis too.

There are things that you can do.

I found reading Siblings without Rivalry helpful too. Some of the strategies work, but also it reminds you that you are not alone and that other people are dealing with chaos at home too.

I also found reading 1-2-3 Magic really useful. I have a copy here, which you are welcome to if you cat me.

This morning, before we murdered the kids (and we only have 2) I quickly started my reward book up. The kids have ten stars each. If they transgress, they lose a star. If they do something nicely, they win a star. I usually do this for the first week or ten days of the holidays, but dig it out if things are wobbling.

I find it helpful if I jot down what they are winning/losing stars for. It helps me to see what they do well - it's easy to believe that they aren't doing anything well at times - and to see if there are particular patterns in what is going wrong. EG if "Being rude to mum" crops up twice a day, then there are double stars on offer if it isn't there tomorrow.

Finally, you sound really low. Do you need to go and have a chat to your GP? Or to your dh? You are the main carer, and you need to be OK. Make sure that you are getting some you time. When did you last have a girls night out and laugh a lot? Are you getting enough sleep/chocolate? Never mind the kids for a moment. Look after yourself. And keep posting.

"I feel I am failing as I honestly do not know what I am doing."

Love NONE of us really know what we are doing, we are all pretty much making it up as we go along.

TBH the incident you described here doesn't sound bad at all (especially as the second youngest in a field of 6 growing up! I have scars baby scars!).

Can you get some help? I have noticed from your posts that you seem a bit lost - can you afford a nanny to maybe be an extra set of hands or something?

Sorry - just reread my post. That last paragraph sounds really bossy/imperious. It was meant to be encouraging and gentle! Do you do hugs? If so, have a hug instead!

Also wanted to echo what Wisekitty says. Lots of us have felt as you do too. Some people make parenting look easy. Others come on Mumsnet! It has saved my sanity, I am sure.

I used to be a really good teacher and I cringe when I see myself making the most stupid parenting mistakes with my own kids. It is sooooo different to doing it as a job, and so much harder, I totally agree.

Your MIL may have put her finger on how you are feeling but she hasnt done much to encourage you, has she? You can turn this around and feel better about yourself and about being a mum, really.

The only time I get for myself is 2 hours after lunch when DS2 sleep and 2 hours twice a week now he has just started playschool.

I have one night a year out with a friend when we go to a pamper evening at school.

DH and I will be going out on Saturday for our anniversary but that is a very rare event as FIL won't babysit in the evening.

We can't afford any help at all and there is no chocolate in the house.

I am already on AD's.

I have 123 magic but no time to read it. I will make time today though and would appreciate bullet points I can write down and stick on the kitchen cupboard for when I am stuck.

Can I get printable star charts anywhere online?

Custardo - goo ideas too thanks.

NQGU - I didn't take it as bossy amd I don't know what imperious means so no probs there either! A hug is good but would make me cry!

good luck

make a chart up today

simple headings of the things that piss you off most.

get that rivalry working for you!

i reckon

If DD hits her brother(s) do they get a sitcker for not hitting back? Is that how you mean use the rivalry?

erm........

well.

one of the things is
"no hitting"

so if you hit you get one taken off - making those who don't hit have more..

but this would be balanced with the kid that hit might then be helpful, or put toys away or put shoes on for school

you have to think though and try and make it equal...so do youhave the kid that always gets thing wrong and is likely to come last all the time ( i have one) then you have to write something that will play to their strengths - or else what is the point of participating if they never get a prize?

Oh, I so remember how tired I was when I had so little time to myself too. I became a different person when both of mine were at school full time. And we had very few nights out too, with very limited babysitters. You could try having a long soak in the bath once a week, with candles/a glass of wine. Or a takeaway with dh once a week, with a dvd? (DVDs only £2 for a week from the library!) Or a bowl of strawberries with melted chocolate to dip them into, once a week once the kids are in bed! Remember, you deserve and need the occasional treat.

Sending you some virtual chocolate! (In fact if you cat me your address, I could manage some of the real stuff! There was quite a lot left over from the school fete, which I had to bring home! - seriously!)

Hope someone comes along with printable star charts (although they can be a bit of a chore to keep going. I now just use a notebook, put the kids name at the top of a new page and draw squiggly stars underneath. It can go in my handbag, so stars can be instantly awarded or withdrawn when we are out too.)

I don't think that I got past chapter 3 in 1-2-3 magic, but still found it helpful - so not too much reading to do there.

PS Imperious means bossy (but worse!) so I am glad that it didn't sound too bad.

Hang on in there, and do keep on posting. I know that it kept me sane!

{very little hug} so that it doesn't make you cry

Just to answer your original question - I think that if you had an 8 year old still dealing with conflict by lashing out then that would be past "all kids do it".

I'm being hugely generalising, obviously - but for me that is the age when I would think the child really should have got its impulses under control - and if it doesn't there is something going on.

This is meant to be encouraging, by the way! and not at all to suggest you have years more of it to deal with. It sounds as if your 7yo (I'm guessing that's your ds1?) is already there.

DS1 is 7 and has been much better lately.

The only thing that has come to mind is I have stopped taking them a snack to eat when I get them from school as it meant DD and DS2 weren't eating a decent tea. Doesn't explain the bad behavciour in the mornings or weekends though.

Thanks Custardo. You wouldn't believe I used to be bright!

I will google for charts, thank you.

i used to do one for holiday spending money

with things on

across top
..............mon tue wed thurs fri

put toys away

put shoes on

eat dinner

table manners

*points will be deducted for hitting