Worried about school looming, 3 year old behind

[boringperson123]

Hi everyone,

My daughter is a June baby and I’m getting increasingly worried about her going to school next year. She is a very high energy child and has always been challenging even since she was a baby (but she also has some brilliant qualities and is a lovely hilarious little girl)

My main number one concern is potty training. We have been potty training since she was just turned two. We’ve tried every method, but she is still having multiple accidents a day (6 today since getting back from pre school!!) these are only wee accidents as she hasn’t had a poo accident in a year, she took to that immediately! She doesn’t seem to have any embarrassment over it although recently she has started lying and saying she just got wet while playing etc. We took a break earlier this year for a couple of months as everyone advised me to, and when we tried again she had no accidents for a full week, then just went back to the way she was before when she got bored of the sticker chart etc. Which leads me to believe it’s probably not a medical issue although I’m not ruling it out especially given how frequent the accidents can be sometimes.

She also isn’t brilliant at listening, often zones out and ignores people, runs off mid sentence, starts singing or doing her own thing. Maybe this is normal, I have no idea.

Her speech is pretty good and she talks a lot, but she doesn’t understand certain questions sometimes and just repeats what you say, a common one is ‘why did you do that’ she will just repeat the phrase.

She can count to 10 (and makes up nonsense ‘teen’ numbers after 10), knows all her shapes, colours and can draw a face but gripping a pencil properly is hit or miss. She also can’t do her ABCs she just sings the tune but it’s mostly nonsense lol.

She’s really good at playing with other children and very kind, loves making friends and has a brilliant imagination.

In general her behaviour is 0-100, she can be very lovely and does as she told but she just gets very easily bored, will suddenly try and run off, often does naughty things on purpose and giggles and finds it funny, she does not respond at all to punishment. She says ‘I’m very sorry!’ easily but there is no part of her that means it or regrets it at all. She doesn’t seem to link the action to the consequence. For example if you have an accident we will need to leave the park to clean you up, if you throw your food it will be taken off you, etc. She just has an absolute crying meltdown then does it again! I think that’s why we struggle so much with potty training and what makes me believe she’s developmentally a bit delayed but I’m not sure and I really don’t know what to do, I feel like I’m just failing whilst also struggling sooo much 😫

Does she ever go on the toilet?

My DD hated the potty and preferred the toilet.
can get character seats to go which she may enjoy.

Almost all of the behaviour and ability stuff sounds completely normal for an early 3 year old.

There's 10 months until school, that's loads of time for a kid her age, you are over thinking. June birthdays don't even put them at the very youngest either, they'll be loads of kids her age starting.

In reception they get prompted about using the toilet loads, they are only doing little blocks of ten minute learning for phonics etc, the rest is play based and they have a morning break, lunch, afternoon break, they're not sat still at desks for 6 hours.

She seems like a typical 3 year old, don't stress!

My daughter turned 3 in July and apart from the potty training part she sounds exactly like your daughter! I assumed this was normal 3 year old behaviour but now you have me thinking maybe I should be concerned too

Honestly, this sounds really normal for a just turned three year old, and a June birthday makes a big difference at this age. Mine is three too, so I get why it feels like everyone else is ahead, but ten months is a long time for a little one, and the fact that nursery say she is fine is worth holding on to. They see her next to lots of other three year olds every day.

For listening, short and simple works best at this age. One instruction at a time, and waiting for eye contact before you say it, can make a surprising difference. Long explanations just wash over them, and that is not a sign that something is wrong.

Potty training is not a race either, and she is not going to be the only one in reception who still needs prompting. If the potty is a battle, it is worth trying a toilet seat and just keeping it low pressure and consistent. She will get there, and you are not behind for worrying about it, but I really would not panic yet.

The bit that jumped out was the meltdown followed by doing the same thing again straight after. That's less about naughtiness and more about action and consequence not quite joining up yet, which develops at different rates in different children. Rather than waiting for the accident and reacting, some parents find it helps to prompt before it's needed, a timer or visual cue every twenty minutes, so she isn't relying on noticing the sensation herself for now. Small, immediate rewards also tend to land better than a sticker chart with a wait attached. None of this points to anything being wrong, just that she may need the structure built in rather than being expected to self-regulate yet.

She sounds great and has a long time developmentally-speaking before she starts school. She'll be fine.

My Dd potty trained fairly quickly but I can clearly remember going in to the living room one day and seeing a puddle beneath her, she was engrossed in an episode of Balamory and totally distracted 😅Don't worry she'll get there eventually

For the potty training you could contact the charity ERIC for advice - a children’s bladder and bowel support service. I have contacted them for bed wetting advice and they were very helpful.

https://eric.org.uk

All sounds pretty normal to me. My eldest son was 3 and a half before he nailed it completely, at the same time as my then 2 year old. I think he was too lazy to go the toilet half the time so hopefully she will master it soon. Other than that I really wouldn’t worry.

The thing is that they change and develop so fast at that age. She may not seem ready to you now, but may change massively in the next few months.

Does she attend nursery at all? My middle son mastered the loo situation when he made two ( wild!) little friends and he just copied them accompanying them to the nursery loo when they wanted to go as he couldn’t bear to be away from them ,,,

My son took about a year to be fully potty trained, and to be honest I noticed the biggest different when he changed rooms at nursery. He was having accidents constantly in the 2-3 years old room, still had them for a couple of months when he went up to the bigger room but I think because he could access the toilet there easier and other kids were doing it that seemed to help massively. We do have a potty at home but I did notice that him going on the big toilet was better for him, he has a step and just takes himself to the toilet now but our toilet is downstairs where I know not everyone's might be so ours is quite accessible as we spend most of the day downstairs

• Do you have multiple potties, eg one in the lounge, one in the upstairs bathroom, etc?
• Do you ensure she wees before going to the park ((ie make it clear she’s not going until she’s wee’ed in the potty?
• Do you take the potty to the park with you?
• Do you prompt and remind her while at the park?
• Do you have a special potty/toilet treat that she only has when she’s on the potty/toilet?

She’s probably just got used to weeing herself so it doesn’t bother her physically. Also, are you putting her on the potty after she’s had an accident? If not, you should. Sometimes a dribble more comes out, but even if she can’t do more, it reinforces the wee=potty link and, in addition, means she realises her game will be interrupted anyway even if she wees on the floor as she’ll still have to sit on the potty.

If she reacts with a meltdown when she wees herself at the park and you say you have to go home to get cleaned up, then why not explain to her that you can’t go to the park until she can wee in her potty and not wet herself every time. Sometimes consequences work better than rewards.

She sounds normal to me apart from the potty training. I’d also keep an eye on her fluid intake. Too much and she’ll be bursting all the time, too little and her wee might sting and irritate, making bladder control harder.

As for school, delay a year if you think she needs it.

I am sorry but your daughter is only 3. You're putting a lot of expectations on her.
My daughter had only turned 4 in the July when she started school in the September. She was quiet didn't mix very well with other children but she didn't like them. She was quite picky.
She wasn't interested in learning but just wanted to play and look at books. She came into her own in year one.
Please be aware that children can pick up on your anxieties and that may be the reason she can't go to the toilet.
Let her be and she will come into her own when she is ready.
Not to brag but my daughter did very well academically and is now at Oxford.
All that worrying is not good for you or her. Enjoy her for who she is

Sounds fairly normal - DS was more behind than that I'd say. He's August born and only got out out pull ups in the April before he started. He also didn't speak in sentences much. He still loved school and seemed to enjoy it even though learning wasn't easy for him (turned out he had inattentive ADHD as well as being August born) - he picked up reading OK but was later with numeracy.

most of it all sounds very normal. My daughter could do the alphabet and recognise some number and letters. But she didn’t talk a great deal.

My daughter is just gone 4, started nursery this September. Her talking and her concentration has massively improved.

For the potty training, are you promoting her every hour or are you just waiting for her to tell you? It took my daughter until this July to stop having the odd accident. And I started same the same time as you. It was mainly when she was too engrossed in play. But I was still taking her to the toilet every hour. Up until she was regularly telling me she needed a wee.

My DS2 is a May baby and will be going to school next year. She sounds almost exactly same stage as him and I have no concerns at all. DS1 was an October baby so I just expect DS2 to be much more behind and go with the flow of it trying not to rush him. He’s 100 miles an hour but he’s just started school nursery and he’s thriving and whereas at home he never listens they say he is brilliant at school, sure she will be the same. They’re only 3 I think sometimes we forget how little that still is 😊 Try not to worry, I know it’s hard with your first!

I’m going to go against the grain a bit here. We started trying to train my daughter at just turned 2 because she showed all the signs of being ready. Separately, like your daughter, her speech and language were very advanced and she was (is) clearly a bright child. Like your daughter she struggled with listening and following instructions. She was also my first child.
Toilet training was a disaster and fitted exactly the pattern you describe of multiple accidents a day one year on, with some minor successes in between times which gave us hope, only to go backwards again. It was incredibly frustrating. Reward charts worked briefly but never for long. The worst part of it for me was that she just didn’t seem to care about being wet and was not embarrassed about it. All the traditional advice says don’t make a fuss about it as your child will feel really ashamed of themselves, but this was not true for my daughter.
She was not reliably dry in the day until age 6-7+ (possibly older; I’ve kind of blanked it out!), and nighttime much later. Hearing was checked and fine. We ended up under the care of the children’s bladder and bowel clinic and she was diagnosed with an overactive bladder. Her bladder capacity was also small for her age, we were prescribed medication for this and then a while later separate medication to stimulate the hormone that makes them dry at night.

She also now has a diagnosis of autism and ADHD which explains the lack of embarrassment and why traditional reward methods did not work.

Trust your gut and reach out to your health visitor, your GP, the pre-school, whoever. In the meantime, if she is allowed them at the moment, ban all fizzy drinks and juice esp blackcurrant, and make sure she drinks a glass of water religiously at every meal and snack time. Not little sips. A full glass of water 6x a day. Second the advice you have been given about the ERIC website.

I feel your pain. Try not to worry about school though - they will be encountering children whose parents haven’t even bothered to teach toileting at all because they expect school to do it, so they will be happy that you are working on it and work with you. Good luck

PS as far as repeating what you say goes, Google “echolalia” and see if anything rings true or not

If she has known ENT issues with sleep apnea then a hearing test should be a priority. Glue is v common and could explain a lot.

As for the accidents, I don’t think it’s that uncommon to just not care about being wet. If she’s the type that loves messy play and isn’t bothered about wet feet after jumping in puddles for example then stands to reason she doesn’t care about wet knickers either. I’d just do a combo of taking her to the loo regularly for a bit and make accidents a really boring faff which she has to fully sort herself (get herself undressed, bag her wet clothes or put them in washing machine, find clean ones, get herself dressed again) and if she misses the end of her TV programme or doing something fun whilst this is happening then so be it. Also, drink more to increase bladder capacity and stop any blackcurrant (I don’t know why but it is a thing) and chocolate (caffeine) if she has either.

The rest of it all sounds pretty normal. If you want to casually work on fine motor skills, and I really wouldn’t worry about her pencil grip yet, then lego and friendship bracelet kits are really good.

September 2027 is ages away! You’re right to be thinking about school readiness but you have a good while before you need to worry.

I think within the realms of normal too. There’s still a long time until she starts school, almost a year, so don’t panic.
I would try and get a GP visit for the wee accidents though just to check there’s nothing physical. That seems like quite frequent wees for a 3 year old.

Do they? I know you can but don’t actually know anybody who has done this.

@boringperson123 I am similarly concerned about my July born three year old. She will not poo in the potty or toilet, just does it in her pants (wees are fine.) She talks a lot and has a good vocabulary but and at the risk of sounding horrible most of what she says is gibberish. She has become very defiant and challenging of late and I feel a bit judged at school pickup tbh.

Defer (send her to Reception at 5).
Most of MN is inexplicably against that, but I did it with my delayed DS, nursery and school had never heard of it but everyone says now it's been the best decision - DS is definitely on track with the year below and he doesn't stand out at all among the September/October borns.
PM me if you don't know where to start.
If the school has the status of "community school" (not "voluntary aided" or "academy"), the decision is on your local council.

@wouldyouactuallydothat same for you if you want!