DS5 is horrible to my mum

[leopard23]

Will try not to drip feed so might be a bit long… would love any advice here!

My 5yo is horribly behaved around and towards my mum (his granny). She has always been an incredible support and we’re so lucky to have her. She had him from the age of 1 until he was 3, 3 days a week, while we worked. So he’s spent a huge amount of time with her and has always adored her. They had lovely days out together and it was as good as it gets!

His behaviour has got trickier as he gets older - he doesn’t do a thing he’s told. Often defiant, have to ask him multiple times to do something like get dressed. But imo this behaviour is in line with age etc.

However, he’s horrible to my mum. She picks him up from school 3 days a week and between pickup and 5pm when I get home, he’s really abusive. Hitting, pushing, spitting, swearing?! I don’t know where he gets it as he’s not like this with us.

we have a 2yo DD also who my mum obviously loves, and I often wonder whether he feels jealous. My mum’s not as considerate as we are with language and will often say things like “DD wouldn’t treat granny like this” etc.

anyway… I don’t know what to do. I try to talk to him and it goes in one ear and out the other, happens again the next day. I’ve said if it continues he’ll go to after school club, explained how lucky he is to have his granny picking him up. My mum’s is genuinely lovely to them and I can’t figure out why he’s acting like this. Help!

Just stop his grandmother picking him up. After school it is. No negotiation. My ds was like this. We had to really have very strict boundaries. He eventually got the message.

Your poor mum. Bless her for still putting up with it. You need to stop inflicting this on her. How has he picked up swear words at 5?!

Let be clear the combined behaviours you describe is absolutely not "in line with" the behaviour I see in my 4.5yr old or her peers.
An isolated outburst with a kick or push yes.... but this.... absolutely not.

I think @PotolKimchi advice is really solid but you keed to both be really consistent.

Separately i would be doing 3 things.

1. you need to waitlist for afterschool now, today.
2. Investigating other childcare options CM etc.
3. I'd also be looking into a specialist to support you in behaviour management (eg child psychologist).

The longer this goes on the more problematic it is. Do not for one second cling to "oh it's a phase"

Your poor mother though. She must be a saint / previously abused to tolerate this.

This is appalling stuff....

Do your grandchildren use the F word too?

Basically, he wants you to pick him up. Punishing him when he is nasty to your mother will just make her pick up more negative in his mind. Tell him that mummy cannot pick him up so that is never going to be an option. He has a choice between your mother or a stranger. Which ever one he picks, he has to be nice to. Also, bear in mind children don't want to do stimulating things after school. At this age they are exhausted by school and have had enough by home time. He needs a snack and a chance to chill out in front of his favourite TV show.

@sittingonabeach
He doesn't behave badly at home. Only at his grandmother's. All other care providers give positive feed back.

OP has said he is defiant, doesn’t do anything he is told and reacts badly if they say no to him, but OP thinks this is normal 5yo behaviour.

What would you do if your Mum said she wasn’t doing it anymore? Whatever the answer, that is what you need to do. You cannot expect your Mum to tolerate this any longer.

Hitting and spitting etc is never acceptable however he is communicating something through this behaviour and he needs to be helped to find a different way of dealing with it. I think it's quite common for very young children such as at his age to be very tired and overwhelmed after school, they behave well while they are there and suddenly it all comes out when they get home to their safe space. I would speak to his teacher or SENCO for some advice on how to deal with it. Is there the ELSA programme at school as this can help them with identifying and articulating their emotions. Ask for him to be referred on to it if there is.
Ask your son how he is feeling when he hits and how can he deal with this differently, what helps him feel calmer? When he is angry he needs to do what helps him calm down instead of lashing out . Has he got a trampoline he can jump on to vent emotion or can he ride around the garden on his bike. Do books help him feel calmer?
What is your Mum doing with him after school as at this age expectations should be low - time at the park to let off steam, take a snack, a bit of Tv when they get back to unwind.
I think you and your DH should take a couple of weeks off to give your Mum a break from all of this, pick him up yourselves and see if he behaves the same with you at pick up and really try and put some time into getting on top of it. And obviously if this continues you need to find an alternative to your Mum.

I'd talk to him about it when he's calm. It's likely a phase that will pass. DD1 was a good girl most of the time but at times slapped me all the way down the high street when I picked her up from school in Y1.

I just think advice would be different if it was a MIL or FIL or childminder collecting him. I used to take my granddaughter to Stay and Play sessions and there would always be three or four mums who had their mothers permanently in tow. I used to listen to a moaning granny constantly complaining about her grandson. The staff there ( it was a Local Authority run group) tried to intervene and distract but the grandmother called the shots. I wonder if the advice would be different if the care was being given by another family member.

Depends how you define badly. According to OP he is defiant, doesn’t do as he is told and has to be asked several times and shouts when being told no.

What an utterly strange post

Exactly

I think the Op has a very different benchmark for what constitutes poor behaviour than the majority of parents

Not normal for age. Behaviour should get better with age as they learn regulation and coping strategies.

Stop asking him to do something several times. Ask once and follow through.

Weak parenting. Sorry. I would never have DREAMT of treating an adult like this, as a child. I would never have wanted to, and my parents CERTAINLY wouldn’t have let it happen more than once.

Yeah, it's £12 until 5pm, but I get the 20% extra as I pay via (what they call tax free, but isn't for me!) gov scheme. So I get £12 worth when I add £10 to my account.

I live in a cheap part of the country.

This isn't normal behaviour at all. I have two kids with sen and they weren't swearing or spitting at people at the age of 5. Where's he even learning swear words at that age?
You need to come down much harder.

What did you do when she did that?

How does your mum respond at the time?

Tried to stop her and calm her down and to not get angry myself. Give her a lift in the car instead and also got buggy board for DD2's pram as I recognised she was mostly just knackered. A sweet snack also helped.

It coincided with a time when she was struggling to get back to sleep when she woke in the night and we were all frazzled with it. We worked through the books "What to Do When You Dread Your Bed" and "What to do When You Worry Too Much" with her. This really worked and in a matter of weeks she slept a lot better and woke up far less.

When DD2 got a bit older they got bunkbeds and shared a room and never had sleep problems after that.

Just wait till he's year 7! Going to be a joy.

I would feel guilty paying such a tiny amount to someone to do the school run and then care for my child for a couple of hours!

What does granny suggest?

He sounds really distressed after school. If he is described as being quiet and well behaved at school I would be wondering if he is masking.
Needing reminders to do things can be normal but if it’s excessive then that could also suggest ND.
Struggling with getting dressed for school at that age could also be due to executive function, transition and texture/sensory difficulties (they won’t necessarily know themselves though!). Are they eating all their lunch at school -give him something to eat immediately on leaving the school.
After school try to put in some decompression time with very few demands placed on them (no need to interact much or do set activities).

Whatever the cause I wouldn’t expect Granny to have to put up with it. (If he is ND then Granny is getting it because he trusts her and doesn’t feel the need to hold it together any longer). You could try afterschool club and see if it helps.