Completely failing to manage my 5 year old's attitude

[Justtheabsoluteworstmum]

Yesterday I took my 5 year old and 7 year old to the park after school. For background, the 5 year old is developing a real attitude problem and I'm trying to get her to be more respectful. She frequently tells me "you don't get to tell me what to do".

Anyway, after playing for a while, she came over for a snack. She had seen in my bag that there were Pom Bears and an apple. She is not very good with eating fruit, but will sometimes eat an apple. She came over asking for a snack, so I took out the apple. She said "I'm not having that, give me the pom bears". I said "that's very rude, where are your manners? You can have the pom bears once you've eaten the apple".

Well, that's when it all kicked off. She SCREAMED at me to give her the crisps NOW, you don't tell me what to do, etc etc. She started going through my bag trying to get the crisps, to the point that I had to hold the bag above my head. She was pulling at my clothes and screaming. In the end I said that due to her behaviour, we'd have to go home. She screamed even more. I had to drag her home, with my 7 year old walking begrudgingly beside us, which I feel bad about because he'd done nothing wrong.

I got home and cried. All that over a packet of crisps, really? I'm sure everyone there thought "bloody hell just give her the crisps". But I am trying so hard to set boundaries!

This morning I've noticed a bruise on her arm from me dragging her home. I feel like the worst parent in the entire world, like I don't deserve to have these children if I can't look after them properly.

What could I have done differently in this situation? It just got so out of control, and it makes me not want to go anywhere with her by myself again. Yes, in this instance, I shouldn't have taken both crisps and an apple, just the apple. But next time it will be something else. I'm just so sad.

For context, I don't think my daughter has any neurodivergence or additional needs. She's just become extremely rude and defiant, and I'm struggling to manage it. She is always very remorseful afterwards.

I feel it was a bit mean of you to make her have an apple when obviously she would want the pom bears. I wouldn't have had a battle over it when you had pom bears as a snack anyway. It's like she knew there was a choice but she didn't get one. You're forcing her to eat an apple when she really doesn't want one. Pick your battles.

The thing is, it wasn't about the pom bears or the apple. It was about the way she spoke to me. If she'd have asked nicely to have the pom bears instead then I'd have let her.

Silly answer

Mum gets to decide if and when her child shovels crap into her mouth. And as she was being a brat and not asking nicely, why should she cave?

She needs firm handling OP. Keep doing what you’re doing. You’re not a bad mum. Her attitude stinks. Has she been a bit spoilt in the past? Where has she got ‘you don’t get to tell me what to do’ from?

My response to 'you can't tell me what to do' yelling when mine were young was to laugh heartily and say 'yes of course I do, I'm the mum, it's my job!' Often the laughing would defuse the situation, sometimes it would make them think, and if they carried on after I'd given them my reason then it was because they were just really wanting to throw a good tantrum and any reason would do.

They did grow up to be reasonable adults.

If she’s 5 I’m guessing she’s end of reception or year 1? I would not underestimate how absolutely exhausted she is. My dd had a sort of meltdown at end of reception, and with hindsight I can see she was just wrecked. I advocate gentle parenting so in that situation I would have given her the crisps and spoken to her about how rude she was and how hurtful that was at a calmer time. I know most mumsnetters will roll their eyes at that. But I will say that my now 9 year old is beautifully behaved and we have a lovely, close, trusting relationship. So - that’s my take.

I know how I would handle it, but it’s not very trendy.

Thank you for the encouragement. Unfortunately this year she has become friends with a very spoilt and bratty girl at school, and I suspect a lot of it is coming from her. I actually asked her the first time "where have you heard that?" And she said "XX said mums don't tell us what to do". It's a nightmare. I have seen this girl kick and punch her mum outside the school gate. It's a whole other story actually! I have made sure we don't see this friend outside of school, but not sure what more I can do about that one.

Sorry but that doesn’t sound like normal behaviour from a 5 year old. Defiance and acting out - yes - but to speak to you like that isn’t normal 5 year old language. Where on earth has she got all that from? If my child ever said to me I would totally lose my shit at them and they would never do it again.

Keep going OP, parenting is a long game. You absolutely need to address the attitude problems now.

I do agree with a PP that small kids are burned out this time of year. But you still have to set boundaries.

I am so glad you actually have an explanation as there is plenty you can do.
Can they be separated next year into different classes?
Get the teacher to sit them far apart and make sure they are never working together
Have a meeting with school and discuss this.

As you have one nice child, you know this isn’t all on you. Influences beyond home play a key role.

She has definitely picked that phrase up from somewhere. She’s heard it and she has copied it.

I think you did exactly the right thing. Looking back on my own childhood, my mum would have gone further with me, once back to the house, but that was the late 70s when parents were strict.

I think I’d have done as you did. The bruise isn’t ideal but she sounds as though she was out of control anc yoy had to wrestle control back, which you did successfully. Try not to worry about it, and try to keep her away from whoever is saying such silly nonsensical phrases. Of course mums get to decide what five-year-olds eat 🙄.

I have spoken to the teacher, who is very supportive, and they are separated as much as possible in class. Unfortunately there is only one class as it's a very small school, so no opportunity to move. DH and I have actually discussed moving schools if it carries on next year, although it would be a total pain because our other child is doing very well there. Hopefully things will settle down over the summer break.

Most DC are going to choose crisps over an apple. Your DD thinks tantrums get her her own way, not a polite conversation with you, otherwise she'd have done that.

You're right it wasn't about the food. Time for some very firm boundaries. At five she is old enough to know such behaviour will never be tolerated. I'm sure the bruise was accidental, look at what she was doing.
There was no need to cry. DC test us, but those boundaries give them security. Your consistency allow her to know what is and isn't acceptable. It's not a punishment.

Quite frankly I’d have binned the crisps and let her scream. I wouldn’t have spoiled the other child’s trip out. My child knows I’d do this so he wouldn’t dare behave that way. I’m sure many would say it’s too harsh but the way I see it is I never actually have to do that as he knows I would, so he simply doesn’t test that boundary. There have been a handful of previous immediate consequences that set the bar so he knows what’s expected.

Honestly? I'd have smacked her bum and told her I didn't care how her friend is allowed to behave, she is NOT allowed to speak to me like that and she would be going straight home to stay in her room until she can behave herself.

Fuck that shit from a bloody 5 year old!

Not mean at all. Good parenting.

Glad someone else said it!

She only became rude when you gave her the apple instead of the crisps. I dont understand why you didnt let her choose her snack. If the crisps werent an option then they shouldnt have been in sight to begin with.
Unless you were giving her the apple as your general feelings towards her have changed due to previous behaviour in which case you purposely antagonised her.
She could be exhausted and she could be influenced by her friend but neither of these are likely to change a well behaved child into a brat.
Definitely think ahead and pick your battles because that bag of crisps was not worth such drama

All of this.
"You don't get tontell me what to do."

"Yes I bloody do! Now do as you're told!"

The trick is to find the lever that asserts your power - no screen time, no favouite for dinner - and make her realise thereare consequences for brattish behaviour.

I disagree. What happens when she starts demanding junk in a shop when tired and hungry? Is mum meant to give in?

As the other child doesn’t behave like this, the problem lies mainly with that child, not the mum. Her sister wasn’t kicking off because of crisps.

I think you handled it pretty well TBH. The only other option would be to be even firmer, as a couple of PPs have suggested, which I wouldn't be against - either way, she would have kicked off massively, and you did the right thing to take her home.

Just keep going with it OP - don't cave! She'll learn.

That is probably what you should have said, ask me nicely and you can have the pom bears. Taking one snack that she loves and one that she barely eats wasn't going to go well.

Id never be buying pom bears again.
Next time you get chance take the 7yo to the shop /park and leave dd behind as you can't trust she will behave.

This sounds like “just give her what she wants to avoid drama”. It’s up to her mother if she wants her to eat the apple first. We have the same rule in our house. If there are fruit and veg snacks and more treat type snacks we eat the healthy options first.

You did the right thing. At that age bad behaviour should ideally have immediate consequences - which you did. As a previous poster has said, some immediate harsh consequences show you are willing to enforce a boundary and going forward the child won’t push as far as they have learnt they will not get their way by behaving badly. Giving in to a rude child is not teaching boundaries and good behaviour. I see parents being spoken to like shit by their children all the time. If you don’t nip it in the bud now then it will get worse and worse. Stay strong, you’re doing a great job!
Of course there are different reasons and circumstances- sometimes bad behaviour needs a gentler approach like a hug or some down-time. But you know your child best and in that moment I would have done the same.