Completely failing to manage my 5 year old's attitude

[Justtheabsoluteworstmum]

Yesterday I took my 5 year old and 7 year old to the park after school. For background, the 5 year old is developing a real attitude problem and I'm trying to get her to be more respectful. She frequently tells me "you don't get to tell me what to do".

Anyway, after playing for a while, she came over for a snack. She had seen in my bag that there were Pom Bears and an apple. She is not very good with eating fruit, but will sometimes eat an apple. She came over asking for a snack, so I took out the apple. She said "I'm not having that, give me the pom bears". I said "that's very rude, where are your manners? You can have the pom bears once you've eaten the apple".

Well, that's when it all kicked off. She SCREAMED at me to give her the crisps NOW, you don't tell me what to do, etc etc. She started going through my bag trying to get the crisps, to the point that I had to hold the bag above my head. She was pulling at my clothes and screaming. In the end I said that due to her behaviour, we'd have to go home. She screamed even more. I had to drag her home, with my 7 year old walking begrudgingly beside us, which I feel bad about because he'd done nothing wrong.

I got home and cried. All that over a packet of crisps, really? I'm sure everyone there thought "bloody hell just give her the crisps". But I am trying so hard to set boundaries!

This morning I've noticed a bruise on her arm from me dragging her home. I feel like the worst parent in the entire world, like I don't deserve to have these children if I can't look after them properly.

What could I have done differently in this situation? It just got so out of control, and it makes me not want to go anywhere with her by myself again. Yes, in this instance, I shouldn't have taken both crisps and an apple, just the apple. But next time it will be something else. I'm just so sad.

For context, I don't think my daughter has any neurodivergence or additional needs. She's just become extremely rude and defiant, and I'm struggling to manage it. She is always very remorseful afterwards.

I think you're doing a great job and need to keep fighting these battles consistently for a few weeks until she gets the message. When she realises rudeness and bad behaviour only ever brings negative consequences, she'll give over.

Similar.

My dd once refused to share and it was a learning point. As was when she refused to apologise for shutting her sisters arm in the door. You need to keep going op and shoes that your boundaries are firm.

I agree with this. Just giving it to her to stop a drama is lazy parenting that results in teenagers and young adults with no ability to follow boundaries and social norms when they're older.

I guess the other question is are you polite to her. Small children usually do what they see, or does she interact with people or other children who shout and demand. I would start insisting on please and thank you as a minimum. and she gets things when she's asked nicely not while shouting and demanding things, and then praise her for asking nicely.

Don’t feel guilty, you were right. And yes, you do get to tell her what to do, because you’re the one who buys and cooks her food, buys and washes her clothes and bedding, buys her toys, cleans her bedroom, looks after her when she’s ill and a million other things. While she’s a child you’re in charge of telling her what to do when she’s out of school, just like her teacher is when she’s at school.

I'd forbid her to say that to you because it’s so rude. A sticker on a chart for every day she doesn’t say it (or anything similar or equally rude) building up to a reward when she’s earned e.g. 10. Immediate loss of sweets, screen time etc. if she doesn’t say it or anything similar to you.

Well, now you know where she has picked that up from!

Of course you get to tell her what to do, you are her mum. Firm, consistent boundaries are what she needs until she accepts that. (And I wouldn't buy any more Pom bears.)

You absolutely did the right thing. It wasn't about the pom bears it was the attitude and rudeness.
Stick to your guns, whenever she's rude pull her up on it and repeat. Remind about good manners all the time. You will get there although if it's new behaviour learned from this other child it will be difficult. At five I think she's old enough for you to have a conversation at a time when there's no conflict about not copying naughty children.

Last sentence should have been "If she does say it or anything similar to you"!

Then you should have focused your response on that rather than making it over the pom bears or apple.

Choose your battle and model what it is you want her to say “Mummy please can I have the pom bears instead.”

The only thing I’d have done differently is given one warning about her speaking to me like that and then home immediately. By letting her escalate into going through your bag etc you let her push you too far, hence the tears at home.

Any rudeness from my kids gets a very sharp “change your manner”, and if it continues there’s an immediate consequence. Mine are teens now and know there’s no point in rudeness, because it never gets them what they want. I don’t speak to them like that and I don’t accept it from them.

um id be coming down quite hard on this.
You are the parent. She is 5. You did exactly the correct thing. Please believe in your authority as her parent.
Don’t worry about the bruise.
Set clear boundaries and enforce them.

No, I wouldn’t have given her the crisps. Yes, I would have taken her home and she wouldn’t be going back to the park again for a week. If she shouted at me in public, I’d raise my voice afterwards in private and confiscate digital devices etc. BUT with one exception. My dd does throw some really silly tantrums after school. Are you tired? NO! Are you sure? Erm, actually, yes. And when she can recognise why she’s doing it it usually stops pretty quickly.

I feel like you haven’t met many 5 year olds.

I wouldn't have taken her home but id have implemented some form of consequence at home.

P.s. holding your bag above your head was a bit silly. Just close the bag and knock her hand away while repeatedly saying no.

TBF when DD1 was 5 that kind of behavior was usually because she was knackered, so id have given her a super quick tea when I got home, cereal toast milk idea and sent her to bed.

Oh I’ve met plenty thanks. And if you think this is normal talk for a 5yo pushing boundaries then you are mistaken. If any young child ever got close to talking like that to me or another adult that would get pulled up so sharp they wouldn’t know what hit them. This is the result of yet more gentle parenting bs. As soon as the child spoke
to her like it wasn’t about the apple or Pom bears any more it was about who’s in charge and who makes the rules, and it should have been made abundantly clear to the child there and then who is the boss and what is acceptable and what isnt.

Stick to your guns, at least you know where it's coming from. Hopefully 6 weeks ago from the other girl will help to re-set things.

@Sherararara the problem is many small kids DO act up like this nowadays and at school discipline is often very weak or non existent so it entirely falls to parents to try and get kids to behave outside school.

OP you have to hold firm, you were completely right - I have a special “very annoyed” face for when my ds speaks to me without manners and I do tear a strip off him and if I do not get an immediate and very sincere sounding apology then I will take him straight home or if that is infeasible I make him sit out for five minutes to reflect (this normally makes him really angry and I just ride out the storm!)

You did the right thing in the situation, but you can still learn from it.

Firstly if you didn't have the Pom Bears then there wouldn't have been any Pom Bears to kick off over. High salt. highly processed fats and zero nutrition but addictive to kids.

Stop buying the Pom Bear crap and just take an apple next time.

Secondly your dd is probably exhausted after school at 5, save going to the park for the weekend.

Refusing the crisps and going home because of her attitude + tantrum is not failing to manage. You did what you were supposed to do. Later when she’s calmed down, explain to her what led to the consequence of leaving the park, explain to her that it will happen again if the behaviour is repeated. Next time you go out, remind her of behaviour expectations.

It’s a hard slog and it takes time for the behaviour to lessen.

The 5yr old and her mum still have to navigate a world containing Pom beats and all the equivalents – be they food items or not. Removing them entirely skirts around the issue of learning how to successfully navigate it.

Telling her what to do is literally your job. Inform her of that and take her home every time she is rude.

She was rude. She is 5. I’ve seen my dd’s classmate be spectacularly rude to their parent. Interestingly it was also at the playground and all about food. I was completely taken aback because this child’s behaviour is usually impeccable. Screaming, shouting all the rest of it.

Hangry. It’s real.

A very tired, overstimulated, hungry child doesn’t a lifetime of bratiness make. As I’ve said, just asking them why they’re behaving like that - is it because they’re tired (twice - they always deny it the first time!) is normally enough for them to twig and regulate themselves. I wouldn’t punish them after that.

I think you did well OP. I have a7 year old and she sounds a bit like this. Very sassy. Likes to get her own way. Kicks off of she doesn't get it. It seems to be weakening touch wood but it's been a long road. It's consequences all the way. Also trying to maximise the activities that she likes to keep the good will going. Exhausting and very tedious. I like to think she'll be a successful adult as she's no wallflower. Quite the opposite. Not easy to parent. She's the type to drop to the floor in a battle when you try and frog march then out of somewhere. My eldest was similar. He's becoming lovely now. Nearly 18 x.

Oh yes also hangry. If I don't keep her fed well it's hellish. I'm similar tho so. . .

You did the right thing. And of course you can take an apple and crisps next time. My 4 yr old doesn’t like fruit as much either, but knows he has to eat it to get the unhealthy food. And yes, we’ve left the park / softplay early sometimes because of bad behaviour. How else do they learn to respect boundaries if there are no consequences.

Im surprised at the people saying pick your battles and just give in and give them what they’ve (rudely) demanded