Nearly three year old waking at 5am and overtired by afternoon

[Warmthofthesun]

A few weeks ago, DD (3 in a couple of weeks) started waking really early - I’d say around 5 is the average but there’s half an hour either side of that.

It throws the whole day into chaos as she’s flagging big time by 3pm and is desperate to go to sleep by 5. I normally manage to get her to bed by 630. If she does end up napping she won’t go to sleep until really late and then is still up at the same time the following day.

she has blackout blinds and the only change I can pinpoint is she’s in a toddler bed not a cot.

(Please no advice on gro clocks etc as the problem is her waking up so early not staying in her room. She also absolutely does not go back to sleep in my bed.)

"If she does end up napping she won’t go to sleep until really late"

What's 'really late'?

Well past nine o clock.

Please no advice on gro clocks etc as the problem is her waking up so early not staying in her room. She also absolutely does not go back to sleep in my bed.

Have got actually used a gro clock though? It’s an excellent way for children to tell the time from an early age.
The rule is if she wakes up and her clock is blue she needs to stay in her bed, it’s night time not okay time. At 3 it should work by a week in, do not allow naps the tiredness needs to build.
If you hear her walking about you send her back to bed every time until it’s morning. She will soon understand it’s not time to get up and most of the time will start going back to sleep once she knows bed is the only option.

She has a Yoto which has a similar function, but I suppose the point is she is awake! Sometimes I can persuade her to go back to bed for a while but it tends to be interspersed with her coming out for a wee or wanting a drink. The point is that it’s the early waking not the early getting up I’m focusing on.

I think some kids are just like this. My friends boy sleeps 9-5 and is raring to go, he's now 5.
I'd accept the early starts and try to get her to nap before afternoon time.

Thanks, I’ve been trying to see the positives but I won’t lie; I hate it! I hate how disruptive it makes the day! I think because it’s only recently started has made me hope it’s not ‘her’ but maybe it is.

I thought you meant like midnight or one am. I don't think that's so bad. My toddler goes to bed at 9:30. It's a bit of a pain because you don't get much time to yourself in the evening, but not much that can be done about it. As it's a recent-ish change, I'd be tempted to let her nap and go to bed late. Hopefully things will sort themselves out/she'll drop the nap and go back to an earlier bedtime in a few weeks.

Different things suit different people; it might not be too bad for you but for me it is as she’s still up at 5. It also means my other child goes to bed very late.

Same, I thought she meant gone midnight, not 9pm. Those sleeping patterns aren’t that unreasonable, just a bit inconvenient if you want a couple of hours to yourself in the evening, which you can still have depending on what time you go to sleep.

When did she stop napping? If it's recent she might still need a short nap or nap every few days but cap it at a certain time to protect bedtime.

Or you could just offer quiet time at 3ish knowing she's flagging, we just did tv time.

You could also just accept the length of her sleep but shift it forward really slowly until it's a more acceptable time. Literally just 5 or 10 minutes later bedtime every few days to push the wake up time later. 6:30pm could become 8:00pm and 5:00am could become 6:30am.

Can she have a late morning nap - before lunch, for example?

I do understand that. I'm just not sure what you can really do about it? If she's falling asleep then trying to keep her awake is just going to make her miserable. Likewise, you can't force her to sleep longer in the morning - you say you've tried having her in your bed, blackout blinds, etc., and they haven't helped.

Move her bedtime til 7.30-8 (by 15 mins a day if necessary). Then she should sleep a bit later in the morning (it might take a few weeks for her to adjust her waking time, so don't give up after a day or two). 6.30pm is an extremely early bedtime, and likely the root cause of the issue.

Put her down for a nap at 12 noon. Wake her at 1 pm.

That way she has seven hours awake, and another seven til 8pm.

I agree with pps that 6:30 is too early for bedtime. You're expecting her to sleep for at least 12 hours even though the birds are chirping and it's light out from an ungodly hour, and her bladder is disturbing her too.

Yep this 100%. What time would you wake up, if you went to bed at 6.30pm? A lot of 3 year olds still enjoy a nap (even if they would never admit it!) and not allowing it basically turns every afternoon into a misery for a year or so.

I had this issue and tried a gro clock. That never worked for us - he never went back to sleep. However he did learn he had to stay in his room quietly until the right colour change and he could read his books.

hes 9 now and still wakes at 530am. My body clock does too. he comes in at 6am everyday and we all sit in bed together for coffee/tea orange juice whilst we come to life. Live this now he’s older as often have a nice little chat and it’s a slow morning before school, so nice and calm. We do his reading and spellings etc before we head off. He sleeps 830-530am. He never struggles being tired, never has really.

I will never sleep in again though. Can’t lie in at the weekends and if I lounge round too long I now feel I’m wasting the day! Would love a lie in. Just one last one 😂 I usually go to bed 10pm.

5am wake is to be expected with 6.30 bedtime. Will she do a short buggy or car nap to tide her over?

Feel like posters are missing the point. I feel for you as my four year old is the same - bed 7pm wakes 5am but so so tired in the day. Even if OP pushes bedtime two hours later to 8:30pm, and the DD wakes two hours later at 7am, she’s still gonna be tired as she’s still getting the same amount of sleep which is clearly too little. Sorry no advice as I wish I knew what to do about it myself.

@Warmthofthesun I get it OP. It’s hard especially if you have another child but the reality (at least for me) is that all my kids (I have 3) have very different sleeping patterns and need different amount of sleep - not sure there is much you can do about that. I would try and get her to nap before lunch even if it pushes lunch a bit later. But if you have her in bed by 6.30 i would think for most kids 5am is sort of a normal time to wake up.

Thank you. Unfortunately she just doesn’t nap if I put her down at midday and even if she would then bedtime would be at gone 9, then still up at 5, so it’s not like changing the bedtime changes the get up time. Otherwise it would be straightforward enough.

If I only had one child a 930 bedtime might not be the end of the world but it is difficult to manage with two. Plus, it then means she’s getting around eight hours sleep overnight which just isn’t enough.

I can’t really offer quiet time around 3 as it’s school run.

It’s just so hard to manage; really affects the day for us both. I’m fed up of parenting by 10am; she’s ratty and irritable, we can’t go anywhere after midday unless we have a danger nap …

She's probably just in a transition phase.

I would revisit the groclock for two reasons:

1. If you want her to go back to sleeping in longer then her body needs to know that it's not time to be active at 5am. Making her stay lying down quietly in the dark is keeping her body regulated to 5am being 'night time'. She may not go back to sleep, but it's better than encouraging her body to be alert and awake at 5am.

1. If this is just 'her' and she's an early riser you want to ingrain the habit of her staying in her bed/bedroom and not waking everyone else up as early as possible. Don't let bad habits set in. Groclock from the start!

Outside of this i would play around with a very short nap and a slightly later bedtime and see if it makes any difference. If it doesn't, I'd go the opposite way and put her to bed even earlier; likely she'll still wake at 5am but at least she's had enough sleep. Some children do wake at a set time no matter what time they go to bed so all you can do is put them to bed earlier in order that they get enough sleep.

Mine at that age, 3, needed one nap a day. You just have to not let her sleep too long. Implement a nap from 1-2:30pm every day and move bedtime to 8pm.

If she didn't have a nap and you put her to bed at 5-5:30 would she sleep the 12 hours to 5am?

More likely until 4! 5 is the average; we’ve had a few 430 wakeups. Today was 520. I don’t know how much it correlates to her bedtime (I remember ds going through a 5am phase, but his went at two and a half and plus he was my only child then so easier generally to manage. Although I still hate a 5am wake up!)

I know there’s a good chance it’s just how things are for now; just wondering if there are any hacks at all to try to get her to sleep a bit later because it’s horrible for both of us if I’m honest.