Nearly 10 year old DS doesn’t want to go to his Dads anymore

[PollyDarton1]

I’ve read a couple of threads about this topic but thought I’d post my own, thanks in advance for any replies!

Me and DS’s Dad split when DS was 5 - exDP was/is abusive and I tried to leave several times but finally finished the relationship just as DS was starting school. exDP has continued to be abusive since then but that isn’t the issue, just noted for context.

exDP started a new relationship v quickly, moved in after two months with her 2 slightly older children and married 2 years later. DS really struggled - me and his dad were not long split and he was very suddenly sleeping over a woman’s house he didn’t know, didn’t know the kids etc. Thankfully he got used to it and enjoyed going there, liked the kids etc.

About six months ago DS started saying he didn’t really want to go to Dad’s anymore. DS had been making comments for a while about how Dad doesn’t spend time with him much, especially not 1-1 and that when he is there, he often is in his room playing on games. DS said he didn’t like his stepmum, who is always shouting at his Dad and that Dad had made negative comments about Stepmum, also that Dad wanted to spend more time with DS but that Stepmum always commanded his attention. Stepmum has had very little involvement with DS beyond the first couple of months, she seemed to loose interest (in DS’s mind) quickly. Stepmum has also said various negative things about DS and me.

My exDP has EoW contact. He attends parents evening separately to me but beyond that he has no involvement with the school - no picks up etc. He has weekly video calls with DS but doesn’t really spend much time talking to him, he’s often busy doing something else and sort of in/out of conversation.

DS says dad doesn’t care about him (and cares about the other children more, who Dad picks up from school), doesn’t spend time with him, doesn’t like his stepmum, doesn’t particularly get on with the kids anymore. DS doesn’t sleep well there, has a lot of anxiety about going and comes back shattered and upset.

exDP rang DS last night when DS refused to go round there. ExDP got aggressive and snappy with DS when DS said he didn’t want to go, and wanted to stay home. It was quite upsetting to hear exDP talk to DS in the same way he used to talk to me - precisely one of the reasons I left. ExDP made rude and cruel comments to DS which made me realise that exDP probably isn’t treating DS particularly well whilst DS is there. I had tried everything I could to get DS to commit to going to dads, but he wouldn’t.

I’ve made suggestions (which have to be very polite to avoid angering exDP) that perhaps he takes DS out on his own, to repair the relationship and spend 1-1 time with him which is what he wants, but exDP just says DS is part of a blended family and that’s that.

There is so much more I could add to this for context but fundamentally, DS doesn’t feel safe at Dads, doesn’t like the environment, doesn’t like being left alone with no interaction, feels like his dad prefers the stepmum and kids over him and would rather stay home.

He is 10 in September, and beyond encouraging the relationship with suggestions, I don’t know what else I can do. There is no court order. I suspect at some point exDP will say I am purposefully stopping DS although DS has said to his dad he doesn’t want to go rather than me passing it on.

I don’t feel comfortable forcing him to go. I’ve never felt comfortable with DS going because of how his dad can be, but obviously I want him to have a relationship with his dad.

I'd follow DS lead. If he doesn't want to go I wouldn't make him. It's not like your ex is a wonderful human being who slways prioritises his son! If dad cba to spend time with him and says he's part of a blended family, so tough shit, then these are the consequences.
Don't sweat it - let him go through the court and then DS can have his say.

I wouldn’t force him, my mum used to force me and I wonder now why she did it. But there was no chance my dad would be bothered to go to court, I don’t know about your dh.
i would speak to ds about potential consequences though, assure him you will manage things between you but there’s a risk dad will go to court or lash out emotionally. I would teach him strategies to manage, that are good in life anyway. Eg if dh is being cruel he can tell him words to the effect of he will hang up the phone if he continues as he doesn’t want to be spoken to like that and then do so (or you can say and do this).
I’d gather evidence of his treatment of ds in case you do need to go to court. Eg save any nasty txts, maybe seek some legal advice for the sort of stuff that might be useful to have and if ds’ word that he doesn’t want to go will be taken into account.

if you can afford it I’d look at some therapy for ds just to talk through his feelings about it. I would probably want to reframe that dad doesn’t care about him, to be really clear that it isn’t about ds it’s about ex dp, but without slagging ex dp off, that might be tricky to navigate and a therapist can maybe help you there.
I know you say ‘obviously I want him to have a relationship with his dad’ and I always wonder on that. Is it obvious? Is that because you think he should? Or because you think you should say that so you don’t get accused of alienating him? Or because you want him to have a dad but just not this one. The reality is this is who his dad is and you need to make the best of the situation, and realistically that’s teaching ds how to manage abusive people, the choice is if he does it from near or from afar.

If your son doesn’t want to go, he doesn’t have to. Your ex should not be contacting him directly, so put a stop to that. I assume your son has a phone, block his father’s number. If he wants to speak to his son, he calls you. If he is the dad he claims to be he will be fine with doing whatever he needs to do to see his son.

Why do you want him to have a relationship with the man who fathered him but is certainly no Dad to him????

Why are you trying to convince him to go to a house where he feels like that ?

I'd happily keep him home & if Ex kicks off, tell him he should have listened to his son. It's down to him to make DS want to go or at least go out with him for the day.

ask him why he's happy for DS to be so unhappy there?

I’ll come back to everyone properly later, but just adding DS doesnt have a phone - god no! He does at his dads but that’s a whole lot other issue (he’s not allowed to contact me whilst he’s there even though he’s asked to, part of exDP control). He calls via me and we soon put a stop to it once exDP was being mean and aggressive.

So he didn’t ring your son directly, he called your home number and asked to speak to him?

Your son is old enough to make up his own mind, he doesn't want to go, he has a clear explanation of why he doesn't want to and all are perfectly understandable and valid reasons.

Stand by your son and agree that he doesn't have to go. Let your ex do what he will, he is unlikely to prevail. If he wants a relationship with his son he will have to try doing the 'be a decent human being' thing.

I wouldn't force him to go. I would keep a record of any abusive behaviour and let ex take you to court if he chooses to. I would end any phone call immediately if he's being verbally abusive to your son.

If ex does go to court, your son will be spoken to by an officer of the court and will be able to explain why he doesn't want to stay at his dad's and what he would like contact to look like - for example, Dad and he doing an activity on their own or going out for a meal.

Thanks all. I really want to follow DS lead but I’m really concerned that exDP will use this situation to perpetuate his abusive tendencies. I have to caveat that since I left the relationship (to my knowledge) exDP hasn’t been directly abusive to DS and I’d be probably exaggerating to say he was abusive to DS whilst we were together, it was just toward me. ExDP also does take DS on holiday with the family, and does things together as a family occasionally. He isn’t the worst father, but for a want of a better word, DS is almost like a bolt-on when he’s with them. They have lots of family photos around the house that don’t include DS and they’ll often make plans on weekends and say ‘could we switch weekends’ etc. Generally both exDP and his wife are quite ‘distant’ with the kids - this is observed by both DS and a relative of theirs which has been relayed with concern back to me - both of them are on their phones or watching TV whilst the kids just occupy themselves. I recognise that’s difference in parenting though - with me, DS is an only child essentially and has both mine and my partners full attention.

exDP has threatened court a number of times when he hasn’t explicitly got his own way, and said he’s going to take me there about 10 times but it’s never happened. That said, DS has never really refused adamantly not to go. I can quite imagine as a high earner exDP will go down the court route - his wife did with her children’s father (who now call my exDP ‘Dad’, which I think further compounds my DS’s feeling of being ousted).

exDP has an older child from a previous relationship who I was stepmum to for 8 years. He barely sees exDP since we split, whereas before he was over most weekends.

I am not afraid of court as I have 5 years of documented and filed abusive emails and texts, which display that I have worked endlessly with exDP to reach common ground. His wife did start sending abusive emails for a period of time so I have hers as well. But fundamentally, I do think DS deep down wants to see his dad, just on his own at the moment.

My big questions are - if a court order is reached and DS must see his Dad (as I expect) then how do I physically make him go? He’s too big for me to carry and get in a car, plus I’m concerned of the existing anxiety he already has getting worse. I don’t think CAFCASS or the court would need exDP as a risk to DS so supervised wouldn’t be reached. My second question is can a court reach a verdict that exDP and DS should just see each other alone? I know this will go down like a lead balloon and I do think whilst stepmum isn’t a particularly nice character, she’s not abusive to DS (just disinterested and doesn’t consider him part of the family).

thanks in advance x

I would NOT make DS go. No way.

id drag it out for a bit, just keep saying he doesn't want to go 'this week'. Say he'd maybe go to the work or lunch or whatever if it's just him & his Dad.

Eventually when you can't & he threatens court. Just say 'ok. See you there'

when it comes to DS being spoken to just tell him that he needs to be open & honest with them. That they're there to help him.

it's highly unlikely they'll make him go, he'll be close to 11 by then.

DS needs to feel he can tryst you & you're in his side. He needs your support to make the best decision for him, not for you to cajole, convince or force him to see his Dad against how he feels because you are (understandably beaten down by his abuse) £ don't fir get you can still report his acted to you. 💕

My DS often chats to me before bed when his anxieties come up and revealed a bit more to me last night.

Essentially he doesn’t feel safe at his Dad’s. I don’t think this is necessarily just ‘at his Dad’s situation as he often still has separation anxiety, for instance he didn’t want to go on a residential with school recently and said he felt unsafe. So I know DS catastrophises and is actually safe, and feels unsafe in a lot of situations because of his anxieties. This we are getting help with via the school.

But he told me that Dad texts whilst driving and leaves the kids (12, 11 and DS nearly 10) home alone whilst running his wife to appointments/shopping. I knew about the latter but not the former. I spoke to the school about it as it upset DS but I know there is no legal specifics about it and is down to parent discretion.

The other thing DS is upset about is that ExDP won’t tell me where he and wife live. Apparently this is because wife has an abusive ex herself and I’ve never known where exDP has lived or had my DS for four years. I know there again is no specific legal standpoint on this. It’s another form of exDP control which he likes to lord over me. The funny thing is the risk isn’t with me knowing, it’s with him - he used to turn up at my house and become rude and aggressive if DS didn’t come immediately. When me and DP moved in together and I had arranged a neutral location to handover DS, exDP and his wife threatened to keep my DS with them and enrol him in a new school if I didn’t give my address to them. This is the kind of thing I’ve dealt with for four years.

DS fundamentally doesn’t feel safe but beyond the texting whilst driving there isn’t anything grossly neglectful or abusive. It’s just the feeling he has - which could be chalked up to differences in parenting. ExDP is a bully, and he and DS have been fine with each other for years but now DS is saying no to his dad he’s behaving like he did with me.

I have made a list of concerns my DS has which I’m going to speak to the school about.

Speak to a family lawyer, they are going to advise you far better than the school.

I think you have a good chance of step mum encouraging Ex to drop it so she gets him to concentrate on her family. Also court is expensive so why would he bother ? Plus you have evidence of them all being abusive.
So just let your boy decide. He's not really getting much from the relationship is he? And you are not violating a court order .

Stop forcing your son to go and stay with his father.
Arrange counselling for your son.
Consult with a family solicitor on how to deal with your Ex.

I had tried everything I could to get DS to commit to going to dads, but he wouldn’t.

Don't do this.
Don't make him go.
Let your Ex threaten court and then not follow through.
Let your ex tell everyone you poisoned his son. So what? Who cares?????

On the remote chance he actually goes for contact (he wont)... cross thst bridge when you come to it but I'd clearly explain you cannot physically make your son go or stay amd encourage your ds to articulate why he doesnt want to go.
He'll be 11 the court will take his view into account.

Thank you all, possibly due to the abuse I’ve received from ExDP in the past I am probably being too passive. Just to reiterate I’ve told DS that I will not force him to go to his Dad’s.

Last night he said he loves his dad but doesn’t trust him or feel safe there.

exDP has accused me of parental alienation before (it couldn’t be further from the truth, I’ve offered him plenty of time that he hasn’t taken) but I have demonstrated that I have tried to work with him to see DS, it’s just it isn’t what exDP wants - eg 1-1 time for a walk. It’s his way or the highway.

DS is on a waiting list for counselling and therapy, and I’ve spoken to the school so they are aware of the difficulties in case he mentions it there. I’ll also speak to my family lawyer that I had a few years ago.

Would a court order contact with so much background evidence of abuse and the child's express wish not to go? You can't drag him there kicking and screaming and he is old enough to have his views as paramount.

It's easy for people to tell you not to make him go but I understand the possibility of going to court is scary, and not everyone gets a reasonable outcome from the court system sadly.

However in this case I think you have good grounds to allow your ds to stop going - you don't have an existing court order, he might not force you to go to court, ds is near the age where his decisions will be given a lot of weight.

I disagree somewhat with the optimistic posters stating he won't go to court - he might, if only as a way to perpetuate abuse of you. Could you seek a legal consultation to get a professional opinion about what could happen and what it will look like for you and ds? You may feel more confident if you know what could be ahead, and then can just hope that in the end he can't be bothered.

I’m curious why you want him to have a relationship with his dad when his dad has been abusive to you and now DS?

I have just finished reading a book about emotional domestic abuse, 'Nesting'. It strikes me how the inner voice of the victim,, the main character, is similar to how you express yourself here. Basically full of (self)doubt. Listen to your son, please. He is telling you loud and clear why he doesn't want to go there, and he is right.

The abuse is verbal/emotional/coercive and is very subtle. I can’t even really adequately explain it other than exDP has made repeated threats of social services, keeping my son at his house and generally completely annihilating me as a parent. I will say it’s improved since I blocked his wife contacting me as when she got involved it became very difficult.

exDP is very good at hoodwinking people. I had a meeting with the school recently regarding DS’s anxiety and even the HT seemed to think exDP was ‘working towards positive coparenting’ which is not my experience at all. He regularly ignores requests for information about how DS is handling anxiety at his, or he’ll ignore emails about when he’s taking holiday so I can plan my annual leave in advance. It’s essentially all rooted in control of me.

exDP is not what I would consider a great or focused parent but he’s not the worst, although you could argue his behaviour toward me makes it so. I have a lot of self doubt and trauma from the relationship. ExDP can sometimes be reasonable which deludes me into thinking he’s working positively and then will switch on a dime so I’m often completely incapable of knowing which version I will get. That said, I don’t think he is an immediate risk to DS and I don’t think a court will consider him one either, hence why I have been trying to work with him to resolve the situation.

However, I can see I need to be less passive and more assertive about what’s happening and that will happen this weekend when ExDP will start up the whole dictation that DS is coming over. I’ve already made plans to be somewhere else so when exDP turns up at my door (we never do this, handover to ex has to be in a neutral location as he won’t give his address and he never picks DS from mine or school) and will send a firm email to him on Friday. I’m also going to speak to the family lawyer during the week.

I have a lot of self doubt and trauma from the relationship. ExDP can sometimes be reasonable which deludes me into thinking he’s working positively and then will switch on a dime so I’m often completely incapable of knowing which version I will get. ……. handover to ex has to be in a neutral location as he won’t give his address and he never picks DS from mine or school.

I hope you are getting some really good therapy. All this is so completely messed up. You bending over backwards while he pulls your strings this way and that. And your poor son in the midst of this mess.

I sincerely hope your lawyer comes through for you so that you can move forward and achieve some kind of equitable co-parenting rooted in a solid and legally binding agreement.

handover to ex has to be in a neutral location as he won’t give his address

Does that mean that when your son is with your ex you do not actually know where he is? That is wholly unsatisfactory.