11+ tutoring a con?

[Walksinwild]

I live in an area with grammar schools and almost all the children are tutored if they are going to to sit the entrance exam. Often for more than a year. I've enquired about a tutor for DS to start in Sept but I feel like the whole thing is a con. Since when was some maths practice and completing practice papers not enough? My son is capable but all other parents are telling me to get him tutored because everyone else is. Many tutors get you to sign up for a year at approx £35 a week,so are making lots of cash from worried parents and the whole thing compounds.
Those of you that did it/looked into it. What do you think please? Is tutoring necessary?
Tia

I still stand by my earlier comment. I think it will set some children up to fail - they will pass the 11+ but will struggle at school. I feel strongly that my parents had the right approach.

I did hear about this setting up to fail from a Muslim colleague of mine who, unlike the rest of her family didn't get into grammar. She and her sister wasn't tutored, but her dad was pro education so probably got them doing work at home. Her elder sister she said is a genius and got in, did well but didn't love the school. She didn't pass and her dad was very angry. Her cousis were tutored, got in, then their tutoring stopped at grammar school. They don't have jobs in their 20s, but mental health issues. This colleague is anti the system as she loved her comprehensive school and meeting a diverse range of people and having friends who are boys. Grammar schools are single sex.

They're not all single sex. Two of the grammars in our area are co-ed.

Not all grammar schools are single sex - mine wasn’t. While I was fine academically and didn’t struggle with the work, my mental health took such a dip in my early years there. My best friend from primary didn’t pass the 11+ and I ended up going there with only one other girl from my primary school - who bullied me mercilessly until around year 9. All of my primary school peers went to the secondary school in my village, which had an excellent reputation and still does. I went to school 20 miles away. My best friend and I ended up at the same university and are educated to the same level. My mum failed her 11+ and felt that held her back. She wanted to give me the opportunity she didn’t have which is laudable but it really needed more careful consideration. I certainly wouldn’t send my child to school 20 miles away.

I agree with previous posters and I think it depends on whether your child is capable of passing already. My son has passed this year for a super selective grammar. We just did some practice papers at home and he sat some school mocks. 2 girls in his class had been tutored for 3 years and didn’t pass the first round of the 11+ (our area has 2 rounds of testing). I hate to say it but you have to have a good level of intelligence for tutoring to work.

My DD had tutoring for 11+ because topics in the test were not covered at primary school; verbal reasoning etc. The tutor was experienced and not expensive. DD passed and hasn’t needed any further tutoring since.
It’s not for everyone but she’s had a good education and says she’s glad she did it.

My mum on the other hand went to grammar school back when there was no tutoring. In theory this makes more sense to me but if today’s 11+ test covers topics the kids haven’t learnt then they are going to need to be taught by someone or they are at a disadvantage, rather then not capable.

Thank you everyone for your comments. Whilst I fully agree with some of you saying, if they are capable, a bit of practice and they should be fine (which in my gut I feel would be the case with DS) I also appreciate those of you that point out many other children receive tutoring for a long time and get additional hints and tips from tutors. We are fortunate to be able to pay for a tutor - yes agree this then further segregates children-so I will look into weekly support as I feel it really is a case of 'have to join them' even though I do feel morally opposed to the hot-housing for the entrance exams. But like many of you say, children receive tutoring for subjects, sports, music etc.
Thanks all

It's not in my area. I've known countless children not be tutored or not get a good tutor and not get in.

I also know a lot not get in with tutor but st least they had a chance. These children tested low throughout but their parents paid anyway thinking it would turn around .

My tutor tests before he takes a child on not to screen for good performance but to be honest with parents about a child's prospects. One of my dc was given a 50% of getting in, one given a higher chance. Both got into all schools they applied for but this isn't the norm.

Tutor takes them through the type of questions that they encounter and shows them how to tackle each type, then practice and test you. Teach exam technique. Run mocks to get you used to test conditions. Lots of timed tests to literally get you up to speed. Our tutor writes his own series of books thst work very well for our area . Worth the £25 per hour we paid.

We did a few weeks of tutoring for DC1 but were shocked by the low quality of what was offered - just multiple children sat around a table churning through past papers. No actual teaching going on, just supervised practice. I supported both my DC myself for a year leading up to the test and they both got into super-selective schools.

All four of mine have been through superselectives in Kent...we did tutor because they were at state primaries, who are not allowed to do any 'teaching to the Kent Test' - IE no VR, NVR etc. plus the maths they test is Y6 content and they take the exam in the second week of Y6....

I think it depends on your child, what your chances of getting in to your chosen school is (IE, would a pass get you in or do you need to be the highest scoring within a geographical area etc) and how much your child wants to do the work.

Places are highly sought after and with the private school VAT raid more people than before may be turning to using grammars after prep schools. Private school children I know are being tutored on top of their expensive prep school educations so as we knew that our children would suit grammar school, we wanted to be sure they had their best shot at getting in. To be honest, we could have tutored them ourselves for the 11+, but mine loved being additionally stretched and challenged by their tutors in a way that their teachers weren't able to do in very mixed ability classes of 32.

I don't think a clever child would be disadvantaged by not having topics like verbal reasoning covered in primary. My DD had a verbal reasoning test as soon as she started secondary they all did. She scored highly in it and was classed as gifted and talented.

If you are happy to have your Dd to be a guinea pig for not tutoring go ahead. In Kent and it's surrounds being deemed grammar suitable will be going to what is effectively a secondary modern.

I wasn't prepared to take that risk with my kids, the system sucks.

@IloveeverycatYes that probably was a poor example but basically I was saying they hadn’t covered all the areas they would be tested on. Either way I felt the tutoring wouldn’t do her any harm, even if she didn’t get a place.

Around here, your only chance at passing the 11+ is by tutoring - I don't know a single child in our school who wasn't tutored from year 4. Cost us a bloody fortune but well worth the money. Definitely worth the time and effort if only to get so gle sex schools!

At the end of the day, it's all a competition for a limited number of places. Your child is competing against everyone else's child. If you don't tutor, you're clearly reducing your child's chance of being admitted.

Different areas have different "admission" scores according to number of applicants against number of places. In some places, it's "super selective" because the number of places is proportionally very small compared with number of entrants, so the required "entry" score could be 90% plus.

In other areas, the opposite may apply and entry score could be more around 70%, i.e. the top, say, 150 pupils out of maybe only 500 entrants scored over 70%, so that's the default "pass mark".

Schools can't offer more places if they get a particularly "bright" group of entrants so the "pass" mark increases. Likewise, they need to fill their classes, so if they get a particularly "not so bright" group of entrants, the "pass mark" decreases to a level where enough are offered places to fill the class.

That's why it's not really useful to talk about grammars on a country wide level as different regions have very different demographics and therefore very different entry score levels.

If everyone is tutored, then inevitably the entry score increases, so that perpetuates the need for subsequent years to also be tutored hence how some areas become "super" selective simply due to high demand and the perceived necessity for tutoring. Likewise lower numbers are applying for entry, entry scores are going to be lower due to fewer applicants and lower entry requirements, and there's less pressure for tutoring and therefore the entry score remains relatively lower year on year.

@Badbadbunnyin Kent, for 'superselectives' you have to get a score which is "11+pass mark plus 30" or whatever is set out by the school in the entry criteria for the year of entry..it's not just that they are increasingly oversubscribed. Some of the grammars just require you to pass and are therefore just selective.

@Walksinwild you take the chance if you wish. Check out the alternative schools just in case.

Both of my DC had tutors once a week in Y5. It was mainly to level the playing field because we have several prep schools locally who focus on the 11+ from Y3.

Our issue was NVR. I’ve never been able to get my head around it (Grammar school too) nor could my parents. It was also good for self confidence in the Maths and Verbal Reasoning.

If you are 100% sure you can cover that, then go ahead and take the chance.

If you can afford the £35 a week for a year, and from your OP, it sounds like you can, I don’t know why you’d risk it.

Ive seen private schools near me boast that they tutor for the 11+ so I wouldn't feel bad if i wanted to tutor!

There's a couple of grammar schools near me and I know that most/all people tutor so if you want your child to go you realistically have to get on board with that

My child was only tutored for 6 months, she failed the exam but not by much. I appealed to all the decent non-selectives, all bursting at the seams and she couldn't get a place. She had to go to a horrendous local school, was the victim of very serious criminal behaviour by another pupil and is now going to a special hospital school to try and recoup basic GCSEs. No friends and self-confidence on the floor.

The broken system is at fault, not the tutors.

I think you have to do whatever you can to keep your child away from visibly negative environments, it's as simple as that.

Tutoring is a small price to pay for avoiding the sheer misery of many overcrowded secondary schools full of problematic unhappy children.

The system is crazy - in Sutton you have to take 2 rounds of testing , both only maths and English. They will pass around 6-800 but there are only 150 places at the grammars. So to get in you need a really good score - for the boys this year I know of several who passed for all 3 but didn’t get a spot

I have 2DC at grammars. Both went to tutoring for 1 year and had tutor group sessions with up to 4 DC attending.

You need to do your due diligence and decide which tutor and what kind of set up would be most beneficial to your DC. Eg. Online /in person/ how many children in a class etc.
There are some god awful tutors out there. The good ones will get booked up a year or 2 in advance, they will also be pretty clear with you on whether they think grammar is the right school environment for your DC.

I would highly recommend it for these reasons:
*They teach your child the 11+ content. This will definitely not be covered at school, particularly if they attend a state primary
*The level they teach is at least Y6 standard so definitely won't be covered at school.
*They teach your DC how to tackle questions on content they don't know. 'New' content comes up each year.
*They teach exam technique - vitally important
*They did proper mock tests, in exam conditions.

Unfortunately, I do think tutoring is necessary. I will always remember one of the cleverest DC in my son's class not passing. They did the DIY route, one of his parents was a teacher, although not in 11+ subjects. I thought he would have sailed in. He didn't. Other DC got in who are definitely not as clever as him - they all went to tutoring. Very sad but true.

@Walksinwild which area are you in? Is it super-selective?
The 11+ system is shit. I really wish they would abolish it. We found ourselves living in grammar catchment and for our 1DC it was a bit of a shock. I didn't have any of this growing up

@Walksinwild if you are in Bucks you also need to be aware of the 'out of catchment' effect to where the pass mark is on the bell curve - brutal, particularly for local children who just miss out

My son is going to grammar school in September. We didn't hire a tutor, but I did a lot of work with him the term before the exam.
Practice papers, going over the papers he did in school (for the ones he did in school I had to do the paper myself because I didn't have the mark scheme 🤦🏻‍♀️) and working through the questions he got wrong together, making sure he understood the topics properly, vocabulary meanings, exam technique, common question types etc.
He has always loved reading which has definitely helped, and has always loved learning, history, has a fantastic memory etc.
He got a very good score (86th percentile), but we did put in a lot of work as well as what they did at school.

If you feel confident doing this yourself (or your husband) then crack on, if not hire a tutor.