Daughter no longer wanting to take the grammar 11+plus exam.. what to do?

[Zaina89]

Didn't know where to post this.
so my daughter is 10 (11 in September)
this is her second year she has been in 11+ 1-1 tuition.
she has been doing well, we have registered her for to take the exam this upcoming September.
me and my husband have never forced her into the tuition or taking the exam, when we noticed she was quite academic and enjoyed learning and school we talked about grammar school and when she was old enough we asked her if she would like to try the tuition and see how it goes, but that she isn’t being forced and she could stop whenever she didn’t want to do it or felt like it was to much for her.

she has been doing well and this is her 2nd year, the only problem she has is she is quite slow ( takes time to work things out etc) even though she has been doing well with the learning she struggles with managing the time. If I remember rightly in parts of the exam she has about 9 minutes to answer 22 questions, and it has now been changed, they used to do the entire paper at once and now it has been split into sections and some sections only have about 30 seconds to answer the question.

she recently did her first mock test, she only scored 37% and missed out 30 questions. Her tuition teacher didn’t tell my daughter her results from the mock and instead pulled me to one side and said she thought it was best we didn’t tell my daughter because she doesn’t want her to feel “devalued”.

when my daughter left from the exam that day she said she did find it extremely difficult in the sense she really struggled with the time and missed out so many questions because she didn’t have enough time.
my daughter knew something wasn’t right because the tuition teacher told her she would tell her her results but she instead told me.
she asked me to tell her, her results so I did and she got very upset and said she feels like it’s to much pressure and that she feels we are disappointed with her.

it’s been a week since her test and she’s still down about it, she’s been going through a lot at school as well with an issue of a girl being mean. I have been feeling awful but we decided that she would take the next mock test in a month or so and see how that goes. I asked her today to be honest with me and she said that she really doesn’t feel like she wants to do this anymore or go ahead and take the exam, that she’s very tired and she feels it’s to much pressure.

I honestly don’t know what to do for the best, I want to respect her wishes but at the same time I don’t want her to just give up easily. I don’t know whether she should finish the next mock and see what her results are and if she’s still at this mark then to leave it, or because she’s come this far to just let her sit the exam ( she’s due to take it this September). Or whether we should just take her out and not let her take the test and just put her back into normal tuition.

what would you do?
we do live in a area with good secondary schools, that’s not the issue.

she is currently doing a lot, learning Arabic after school 5 days a week for an hour, on top of schooling and then on Saturday’s 1 and a half hours 11 plus tuition. I feel like an awful mum and like this is all my fault for suggesting this.

If she's having this difficulty than grammar is probably not the right setting for her, and that's totally fine.

I've seen people struggling through grammar when they just scraped getting in and honestly it wasn't helpful to them being in a selective setting.

Yes, I agree. She had a meltdown last night when we were doing revision together and when she was being timed she couldn’t focus and didn’t read questions properly. I did in my mind at that point decide that even if she sits the exam and passing that I don’t think grammar is the right option for her. I just don’t know with it being only 3 months left though if I should tell her to sit the exam because she’s come this far. I do know though she’s already very nervous for the actual test.

Don’t let her do it and consider dyslexia testing. This happened to my dd and it’s only now in grammar school after an appeal and in year 9 that anyone has listened to me. My ex was insistent on tutoring and grammar and she is so miserable and behind. Thankfully we now have SEN in place. Dyslexia isn’t just a jumble of words it’s processing the information.

I was wondering about slow processing - I know a few kids who while bright didn’t pass the 11+ and further testing found this to be the issue

I will look into this but she when I speak to her about it she says she gets very nervous during the exam and she forgets everything. Could this still be a cause?
in actual normal school she’s above expected for maths and English.
I was a bit shocked at her results considering she’s doing well but the day she came out of the mock test she already told me before we knew her results that she knew she didn’t do well on time and ran out of time. It’s something her tuition teacher has mentioned as well that she needs to work on time and when they do it under normal circumstances and not in a test setting she is absolutely fine.

I honestly don’t know what to think!

she is currently doing a lot, learning Arabic after school 5 days a week for an hour, on top of schooling and then on Saturday’s 1 and a half hours 11 plus tuition.

This is a huge amount of academic work and long days for a 10 yo - and presumably has gone on since she was 9. No wonder she is exhausted. Kids do extra-curricula after school but it is usually sport or creative projects like dance / drama. When does she relax and play? They need that to recharge and keep their spirits up, too.

I would ditch the tutoring but maybe keep her registered for the exam and let her do a few practice books in her own time in the two weeks before the exam - and tell her it doesn't matter how it turns out. Which it doesn't because you say you have good secondaries. Let her visit these schools and get enthusiastic about them.

Are you in a full grammar county - or are you trying for a 'super selective' grammar which are far more competitive?

Does she enjoy the Arabic? Can that be scaled down to a couple of nights a week?

It sounds as though she already has a lot on her plate and is additionally stressed by the 11+ tuition and the prospect of the exam. The pressure won’t fall off if she goes to a grammar school. She is likely to be put under even more pressure to succeed and will be made to feel like a failure if she can’t keep up.

If, as you say, there are good alternative schools in your area I would send her to one of those where she can work at her own pace and level. If she is happy and confident at school she will do well.

An hour a day x 5 days of Arabic is a lot! Is she learning because it is a family language, for Islamic study reasons or because she wants to? If she is struggling I would consider cutting this back unless she is very motivated. If it is religious, be assured she has many years ahead of her to learn.

The deal was she can stop if she wants
She wants to stop. So let her stop

This could be really humiliating for her.

awww it’s difficult . my DC1, to my great surprise, failed the 11+. I was very upset because I knew it was wrong. They went to a comprehensive, came out of there with 4xAstar at A-Level and a place at Imperial College, where they got a 1st.

For 6th form, DC1 was offered a place at a super selective grammar and ended up turning it down and staying at the comprehensive.

Kids can do very well indeed in a comprehensive. In fact, I wonder if DC1 may have done better in the comprehensive because they stood out so much, so the teachers ‘nurtured’ them a lot. I was talking to one of the teachers who taught DC1 history in year 7 (more than 10 years ago) and they remember what books DC1 was reading back then! They were reading very advanced stuff.

Her confidence must already be really low. Please don't make her do another mock exam, What's going to have changed? The Arabic sounds like a lot too, her brain is not getting a rest. Could she do some sport, the gym or music instead which will help her relax. Maybe just do one or two hours of it .

Concentrate on one challenge at a time.

I would forget about her taking it.
It is just too much for her.

So in your OP you state that you LITERALLY told your dd she can stop whenever she wants.

Now she wants to stop.

I don’t see why you are facing any kind of dilemma here. Obviously you honour the promise you made and you let her stop. To do anything else would be an awful breach of trust and make a liar of you.

That’s not even relevant though. The op originally told her dd she didn’t have to do it. Now she doesn’t want to do it. End of story.

She could be doing brilliantly and want to stop - the answer should be exactly the same.

She is allowed to stop.

If the Op had positioned this “we would like you to do this, if it becomes too difficult or too much, then we can decide together if you carry on” that would be different. But the Op clearly contracted to let her stop at her DD’s preference.

BTW exactly same thing with my dd - I told her she didn’t have to. She was doing fine but said she didn’t want to carry on, so I let her stop. She went to a comprehensive and is now doing 11 GCSEs, likely to get five 9s and the rest 7s and 8s. I’m sure she could have been pushed to do better but why would I do that? I made a promise to let her have some agency in the decision, I’m not going to turn round and say “oh change of plan I’m now going to force you to do this.” That would be morally wrong, imo.

This. She told you she wants to stop and she’s failed the locks by a huge fail. Remember she will have to continue keeping her grades at a good level long after tutoring is done. If she’s genuinely not up to par she won’t handle the pressure and it will just be miserable for her.

My son did not pass the 11+ - very bright but slow processing and dyslexic. However he went to the grammar school for sixth form and achieved 2A* and 2As at A’level.

not going to grammar is not the end of the world. A bright , hardworking child will do well anywhere.

My DH has ADD + test anxiety. It’s been a serious handicap. There is support for children today though. I would look into testing her for SEN.

I would not have her sit the 11+. Loads of DC go to great Unis from state comps. This isn’t going to derail her academically. I would also look into reducing the burden on her, taking extra courses is likely too much.

Going against the grain. I would encourage her to do it as she's come this far.

There are a few possibilities: your tutor isn't any good! Exam technique should be a huge amount of what the tutor is teaching her. Are you sure the tutor has been doing this? Has she been ok with SATS and things in school so far?

Alternatively she could have a processing disorder / dyslexia / other educational adjustment. Maybe speak to the class teacher and see what she thinks, and the tutor.

She may well not be at the grammar school test level -- again I would ask your tutor and her class teacher for their thoughts about this.

She does sound a bit overscheduled -- Arabic is the hardest language to learn and she's doing it five nights a week, that sounds like too much.

I would gently encourage her through this challenge but make it clear that she is bright and valued no matter the outcome of the grammar test. Just so in the future you and she feel she tried all the opportunities available to her, and it will be a good lesson in grit. It might also give you some useful data if you do in fact think she might have additional needs.

This isn't a dilemma. Your child is communicating very clearly with you and it is your job to listen. Stop the 11+ tuition, cancel the mock exam, start talking positively about the non-selective schools in your area. Can you cut back on the Arabic tuition?

Bluntly, OP - what does she do for fun?

She needs to go to the school that is best suited to her strengths and weaknesses.

It has become clear that this sort of academic pressure is not her thing at this stage in her life.

I would ditch all of this stuff and let her go to one of the good schools round about. How would this sit with friendship groups? - which are very important to them. Will this mean girl be going to one of these?

Her life will be very miserable if she goes to a school that is a bad fit and puts her under pressure.

You will need to find a way of putting a positive spin on all this and give her some space to relax.

She is too young to be under this much pressure to perform, academically or otherwise. She is telling you she is struggling with it and needs it to stop (good on her for having the self-awareness and character to express that when she knows full well that you want her to pass the exam and go to grammar school).

Her mental health is far, far more important than which school she goes to. Children who are pushed too hard often end up with long-term psychological problems that scupper any benefits they might have gained from going to a selective school.

Not only do you need to pull her out of this exam, but you have some work to do to convince her that she hasn’t failed you, that she can be bright and have a great future without acing every exam, and that whichever school she does go to isn’t a poor second to the grammar school.

Honestly, in my view, if a child needs 2 years of tuition to get into grammar, it's not going to be the right place for them. Grammar schools are highly competitive (once you get in) with only the very brightest within the cohort being valued.

Stop the tuition but do not cancel the exam. With pressure off from the tuition she may actually feel ok to take it. I would relax about it and see in September. She is doing a lot of academic stuff so maybe pull back on some of it, let her play and enjoy the summer. I suspect she will take it if the stress is taken away and she has some time to rest.

Just seen the bit about the Arabic - please no! She is sending out clear messages that she cannot cope with all this - let her have some down time and enjoyment time.
I see so many children's childhoods wasted on studying to a level that is not right for them. There is so much more to childhood than all this. It is a precious time for being oneself before the pressures of the adult world close in.
Find something she will really enjoy and concentrate on that - dance, music, art, sport, walking, scouts - anything but this relentless studying!