Totally overwhelmed by bedtime while parenting solo

[Statsinyoureyes]

I'm posting for a whinge, pure and simple. I have two wonderful DC - DS aged 8 and DD aged 5. I love them so much but evenings are just ruining my life every single day.

For context, although I am married to their Dad he works away most of the week and is back the odd evening. This is compulsory training so he can't change it, and it's been nearly a year.

My kids do NOT sleep. I have tried everything, we have such a solid routine. They both have a lot of fears and anxieties, one being that they hate bedtime, so i have to stay upstairs with them from the moment we go up. They have separate rooms (it was a nightmare when they shared, they either fought all night or stayed up giggling and bedhopping). When I'm with one, the other will come in. I get them in their rooms as early as humanly possible and then I try to have a tiny bit of time to myself, I normally have a bath or read in bed as I can't go downstairs without them following me. Tje 8 yo is regularly up until 11, coming into my room or bathroom repeatedly, and the 5 yo regularly until 10pm or later. Right now I'm in the bath and she is constantly coming in whining, or shouting at me, it's literally every 2 minutes. Nothing I do works, I feel like I've tried everything. I'm consumed by guilt because these bedtimes are far too late. I also get so angry I end up shouting every evening and basically begging for 5 minutes peace. I've just told my daughter to shut up, i feel terrible. She's still shouting at me that she's acared, needs a plaster, a wee, some water, she's had all these things. Now she's crying because i shouted. What do I do?! I work full time, I never get to exercise, sit and watch TV, have a drink, or anything. My natural bedtime is 10pm but i can't aleep until they stop bothering me, which can be 11.30. Then they often wet the bed and then come and wake me up in the middle of the night amd won'tgo back to their rooms. I'm just so so fed up of it.

Have you tried audiobooks? My DS always found it hard to go to sleep and they helped him enormously. It took away the ‘I’m still not asleep’ stressed feeling and we would often turn it off when we went to bed because he’d gone to sleep with it still running. Maybe explain to your DS that bedtime is going to change and that after he’s gone to bed he can have his audiobook (let him choose, make it a fun thing) and that he won’t be getting up any more because he’s a big boy.

At 8 I’d be taking a very firm line with all that messing about. In fact both of them need to be staying in their beds. You say you have to stay upstairs with them - no you don’t. You are the adult and you decide what is acceptable. You say they have anxieties and hate bedtime, but giggling and bed hopping doesn’t sound like anxiety to me but messing you about. They are getting a LOT of attention from you for this and you need to reverse it. Make sure they’re getting great attention from you as soon as you’re home from work and in the early evening. Do your bedtime routine and make it very clear that at bedtime they will be in their beds and you will be busy downstairs. They will probably ignore that to start with but you have to massively reduce the attention they get for this behaviour - no talking or discussing other than a firm ‘No, back to bed now’, take them by the hand and lead them back to bed and then leave the room. No discussions or ‘I just want a..’. Make sure they’ve had a drink, been for a wee etc before bed so you know they’re ok for that. Tell them ‘you’re having a drink now and there will be no more drinks later because it’s bedtime’.. on repeat. You’re going to have to be calm and consistent and stick to the ‘loads of attention before bed and very little after bed’ routine.

good luck!

I don't really mind them coming in at night, it can be lovely- but when I've tried starting off with them both in my bed, they just mess about and no one gets any sleep! Plus when DH is here he won't allow it so I don't want to make it the main routine.

Sorry cross posted, I see you’ve already got the audiobook thing sorted!

You need to be a lot firmer about bedtimes. They stay in their rooms other than toilet visits. No drinks, no disturbing you, no coming to your bed and no talking. You stay downstairs and tell them they are NOT to leave their room for any reason other than to use the toilet.

You are the parent who is in charge most of the time and you’re letting them get away with bad behaviour. Children need to get adequate sleep and it’s your job to train them into better bedtime habits. Time to get tough with them to make life easier for you in the longer term.

Are they able to get up easily in the mornings for school?

This sounds so hard you have my sympathies. You should definitely give yourself credit for dealing with this mostly on your own for a long time. I wondered if you can refill your own cup so to speak before bedtime - do a walk at 5 as suggested, dinner and cleanup together then they have an hour tv or quiet time if they will where you could have tea and a book or do a home workout or get a walking pad and go on that? If you can replenish yourself and do something for you while they are awake it may make you feel more positive? Them at 8 up to bed. I agree with pp they are inadvertently getting too much Attention for their behaviour at bedtime. Could you say to them after 8:30 no talking at all, and just don’t talk yourself after that whatever they do? Or just put on a very boring persona and only say “back to bed now” a million times in a soothing voice?

My eldest was like this for a long time. And my youngest while he doesn’t get as anxious he is a bit of a procrastinator at bedtime. My oldest is 12 now and so is naturally awake later so I’ve always struggled with getting evenings to myself. The repeated excuses to come down bothering each other and then anxiety about going ti sleep sound very familiar. I also suspect ADHD. What made the single biggest difference was radically increasing their exercise levels. My DD moved schools in year 5 to a school which did a lot more sport and she increased her out of school sport at the same time. She went from doing about 2 hours a week to about 8 hours and it pretty much fixed it. Similarly my son has really grown to love sport since he was about 6 (now 8) and does about 6-8 hours a week and it really helps. I would strongly advise you to up their activity levels - a lot.

Does your DH do bedtime at the weekend? He can’t not “allow” you to do things to make your life easier

With respect, your DH doesn't get a say as he's not there to support you.

My kids are almost 8 and 4, and DH works away a lot. I've found the thing that works for us is to make sure the small one is asleep before the big one comes up, so they aren't disturbing and egging each other on coming out of their rooms. I take ds up to bed, and DD stays downstairs, either reading or watching TV. He has a super quick bedtime routine, teeth, book, cuddle, bed. He has a colour coded alarm clock (a bit like a gro egg but it's a cat) that goes red at 7:45 and he knows if kitty is red he stays in bed. I then sit outside his room for about 15 minutes to make sure he's out before going to get DD. No colouring in bed or anything, once I leave his room, his light is off and it's sleep time. I read to DD once she's in bed, leave her room at 8:30 and she has to have lights out by 9. Her sleep needs are pretty low, we also suspect ADHD.

She goes through phases where she gets out of bed every 5 minutes, comes downstairs, tells me she can't sleep/has forgotten how to sleep/ absolutely has to tell me a random story from lunchtime etc etc. I find the only way through them is to react as little as possible, point out that resting in bed is nearly as good as sleep and then send her back up. It sometimes goes on until 10:30/11 but as long as she doesn't get any inconsistent reactions out of me, it only lasts a few days. (I've tried getting cross, enforcing consequences etc, she just gets so upset she'll never sleep, zero reaction works better for us). So 95% of the time I'm done for the night by 8:30.

Fwiw, they don't have Tonies or Yotos in their rooms, for my two they are a massive distraction and something to use to keep themselves awake. Basically they need their bedrooms to be sensory deprivation chambers, which sounds a bit mean, but it helps them get a restful night's sleep.

Sorry for the essay, all kids are different but that's what works for us so it might be worth trying!

I mean, doctors prescribe it for kids in your situation. You can't buy it otc in Ireland but you can in some countries and you can get it online. You could ask your GP.

I thought additional needs too...my adhd kids are a bit like that. We did try melatonin but dd didn't like how she felt the next day so doesn't take it.

What works for NT children isn't necessarily the same for ND children. E.g. in a quiet dark room is when the adhd brain can go into overdrive. So a light distraction can be better for adhd...music, audio book etc.

Their circadian clock is later too so an early bedtime doesn't really work. That's why melatonin can help in some cases.

What time do they wake up at? The routine isn't working for you at the moment so try changing it. Try a later bedtime. And the walk is good...any time outside. Time outside first thing in the morning is also good.

You don't sound heartless at all. I do know how frustrating it is. I just had to go with it in the end. My 12 year old is still up now, he's the only one still up. But he can get up for school in the morning and it's what works for him. I would love him to be asleep earlier but that's no way to force that.

Just to say too that untreated adhd can show up as anxiety. Treating adhd made the anxiety disappear in our case. Our psychiatrist said this is quite common...I had no idea adhd was the cause of the anxiety and fears.

1730 dinner is very early. Can you move it back a bit? I don’t think we’ve ever had dinner that early unless it was a very late lunch!

Mix the routine up, when you get home play for a bit, then all cook something like tacos where everyone can do a bit and eat together. Some nights let them have pasta on their own in front of the tv to chill out for a bit - and you can have some much needed chill time too!

That sounds really tough! No wonder you are at your wits end, but there are few things you can try.

Are they getting enough exercise, like proper physical activity. If they're coming home to dinner, bath, bed you might need to add some fresh air into the routine. Football club? Dance? Swimming lesson? Running club? My two are like dogs, they need exercised or they'll be wired and not sleep.

Reading in bed or tiniest box is fine but that's stimulating and needs a cut off time too. Lay it out to them, you can read in bed until X time but then lights go off and you must stay in your bed. One last toilet trip and sip of water and that's it.

Also try the gradual retreat method, be strict and firm - mummy will be back in 5 minutes to check on you, mummy will be back in 7 minutes, 10 minutes and so on, build it up. Be clear you don't want to hear or see them after a certain time. It might be tough, they might fight it but stand strong!

What's their diet like? Do they eat enough? Is it the right things? This can also have a big impact on sleep - try a banana or bowl of porridge before bed.

I felt similarly nervous about it and DH wasn’t keen at all. But after some research we gave it a go and my god it was miraculous. DD was around 8, maybe 9 - it was year 4. She’d been staying up later and later (11pm plus) unable to sleep and was bouncing off the walls and very emotional in the day. Melatonin at a low dose - 1mg - and she went easily to sleep around 9pm. Transformed her mood. We have kept the dose the same so as she gets older she is effectively weaning off it without realising iyswim.

It is a personal decision of course but in your shoes I would certainly give it a go especially if you suspect ADHD - nothing else is going to work

I do agree lots of physical exercise helps but DD was already doing masses and it wasn’t working enough (probably would have been up till 1am without it!)

@Statsinyoureyes It sounds hard all round but I am wondering if it is a bit of an attention thing as you are working all day and then it sounds like you’re trying to eat and then fit your housework or tidying in and then it’s pretty much bed. I get that you want some
me time but it sounds like you need to reconnect with the kids in order that they are regulated and able to settle to sleep. Could you eat at 5.30 and have a game time until 6.45 then they get ready for bed and get to read or chill (film?) in your bed while you have a bath, 7-8 on the proviso that when you come out they get a quick story or tony and stay in their own beds while you sit on the landing (you could do some yoga or relaxation stretches) for half an hour. Obviously your times could be adjusted as you see fit- have a star chart and some
goodies or a treat after x amount of stars. I used to plan “treats” for things that I’d do anyway but make them think they’d earned it like a cinema trip or sweet shop visit etc.

Good luck. You can do this!!

It sounds really really tough and exhausting! Some really good advice on here that you could try like the fading technique etc. Exercise / wearing them out helps. Limit screen time especially right before bed - you probably are anyway. Perhaps a later bedtime (slightly as kids that age need a lot of sleep), less time spent on bedtime routine and afterwards, that is, only a short time (if anything) colouring or reading or listening to stories. You make sure they finalise everything like clean teeth, bath, toilet etc then read, hug, say goodnight. Then it’s lights out immediately or only 15 minutes before lights out. Fear and anxiety sounds like an excuse but perhaps they’ve got into habit of not falling asleep and are worried about sleep. You know what it’s like when you wake up and cannot get back to sleep yourself if it happens a few nights together it might cause worries about sleeping. Has this happened? If there any techniques you can employ? Relaxation techniques for them, breathing exercise, does a bath help? Are they better at sleeping after a bath? Maybe write down sequence of actions and times a few nights running. What time they did everything what was said when they approached you, what you said back, what time it occurred etc. this might help you see patterns. I would also suggest you speak to your health visitor to get advice too about sleeping and bed wetting. It might help to have your list of times and actions for them etc.

good luck!!

I have been in your situation - you are father and mother to the children, do absolutely everything, little to no support and no-one cares for you.

It is brutal.

In your shoes, I got very old fashioned. No screens at all at night. A few times a week we watched a film - they made a list one day and they took turns picking the film.

A really nutritious, low production, comforting evening meal. - potatoes mashed with butter, a sausage and salad; scrambled eggs and toast, boiled eggs, beans on cheesy toast - all quick and filling.

A nice walk after that when possible, or a bath.

Hot cocoa (not hot chocolate). Frys is good or hot milk and honey - basically plenty of protein and heat. It really relaxes children!

Everyone upstairs - make the rooms really cosy and tidy. Clutter scares kids when the lights are out. They can see the shadows and their minds race. Have a low glow light for them.

Have a routine - check under the bed - all clear? Check in the wardrobe - all clear?

Each child gets one story from you in their bed. It should work as they gain confidence in the darkness and being away from you.

Whatever you do - best of luck. It is very hard, this high octane need. Hang on in there.

How about going to bed early with both of them and wake up early and have the morning to yourself?

That is a really good idea.

But I am not sure she is expecting too much? It depends on the child for sure, but it also depends on the culture of the family. I never went to bed around 10 - at that age we had lights out by 8pm. Which meant bed by 7 - and they book time etc.

I did the same with mine.

Wearing them out with a long walk in fresh air sounds like a good idea, and you will get a bit more exercise too. Do you walk them home from school?

What do they eat? Can you cut out any sweet things and anything too processed.

A warm milky drink as part of their bedtime routine might help. Avoid anything sweetened. Just add a little cinnamon, not sugar.

Then back to the basics of ignore their fussing & demands, just keep returning them to their beds silently. Lights out or very low.

If DH is home at the weekend, what’s bedtime like then?

You know what might help get the point across?

Get them to be "mummy" and put you to bed and you be them (act out the nagging, getting up repeatedly and so on).

Bet they would get a real laugh out of that, but also, they may well get insight.

I find with my 5 year old that trying for early bedtime can actually result in a much later time of actually falling asleep than if I had started the whole routine later. Mine falls asleep around 8:30 these days but would generally sleep until 7/7:30am or even 8 if very tired, so not sleep deprived at all.

What about a reset where you start your routine closer to the time they have been falling asleep? Then maybe gradually bringing it earlier by 10/15 mins each day until you find a sweet spot?