3yo bedtimes are doing me in.

[Bedtimedisaster]

Ds is three and a half. During the day he's honestly an angel, easy pleased helpful does what you ask for the most part. He has his moments of course but all very manageable.

Then we get to bedtime. And he is like a child possessed. He will do ANYTHING to fight bedtime. A million toilet trips, sneaking out of bed to read or get his toys, constantly creeping out and asking for me (doesn't want me to hold him or anything else it's purely a delay tactic) wants this that the other, his pillow and bedding has mysteriously ended up on the floor and he needs help, he's decided he can't possibly have his lamp in his room anymore etc. Very frustrating but I work through it and am very consistent with saying its bedtime and putting him back to bed and try not to give too much attention. I've tried the ' you don't need to sleep but you do need to stay in bed and let your body rest quietly' tactic. Lasts 5 min.

Then it just descends into hitting, slapping, kicking, spitting anything he can possibly do to provoke a reaction and lead to a time out (which is time out of bed so seems like a positive alternative at the time to him). Of course once he's on time out then he doesn't like it. I'm very clear with him that I'm the boss of my own body and I won't let anyone hurt me like that and I'll remove myself, but then he's straight out of bed running about. I can't just ignore him as he'll continue to escalate to doing dangerous things I know he knows is dangerous in order to get me to intervene.

The entire nonsense takes HOURS. Most nights this week he's been going until well after 11pm sometimes closer to midnight. I know he's tired, tonight he's still going now even though he asked me if he could go to bed at 7pm because he was so tired and i could see he was, we've spent a full day at the beach.

We're really active, we pack lots of fun into a day and he gets little screen time and lots of time outdoors so I know he's tired and not getting enough sleep for what he does in a day. In the mornings he's still up as normal at around 7/7.30 even if I don't wake him. There is no napping during the day.

On the odd night he will crash and go to sleep immediately at around 7.30/8pm but then he wakes up around midnight when I'm going to bed (obv sleeping very lightly to hear me as I'm really quiet) and that's him up until 3am or more.

As a completely lone parent I am absolutely done in. My house has gone to shit, I have energy for nothing, I'm in foul form every evening because you better believe I get through the day waiting for an hour or two down time where I can clean and get my housework done in peace or just get a hot drink before bed or god forbid have an actual shower and wash myself. I'm starting to struggle getting up for work in the morning and on days I wfh I now need to nap during my lunch break because I'm so knackered. I just about get the basics done to keep the house in a semi decent state but so many nights I am so emotionally drained after bedtime all I am fit for is going to my own bed or sitting in silence on my phone. I used to really enjoy my evenings as a little sliver of time for me.

We're well over a month in of this and I don't know what else to do.

We do a little gentle stretching to get his energy out before bed, we do the same bedtime routine - bath jammies teeth book cuddle and goodnight. He has blackout blinds in his room. The area we live in is really quiet so no noise from outside or next door keeping him up.

I'm not the best multitasker and because it's just the two of us I do rely on getting my cleaning etc done at night so I can be present for him during the day and to stop us falling too far behind it one of us gets sick or I have a busy period in work.

I feel like I'm 'on' 100% of the time I'm awake at the moment and it's sending my stress levels through the roof. I have very limited options for childcare and I save them for illness or work events I have to attend. Family have no interest in taking him just because and I feel like I need to beg for my mum or sister to babysit once every few months. (I take my sisters kids regularly because she works a lot).

I just don't know how to break this sleep issue. Up to a few months ago this child was like magic and slept a solid 10-12 hrs every night and a bomb could have gone off without him stirring. I think I also just need to vent because it's hard dealing with it alone and having noone to bounce off.

Will he go to sleep in your bed? Not ideal but if it means he stops messing about and actually sleeps. Or bribery?

I’m feeling for you, genuinely. You probably need to be a lot firmer earlier in the room. When you feel him starting to push it ;and you’ll know when this is) just say ‘I love you, it’s time to sleep’. And repeat. If he has everything he genuinely needs - he Ayer, you wee, soft animal - the just repeat ‘it’s time to sleep now’ in increasingly firmer tones

did something happen a month ago? was he fine before this?

Ooof OP, I opened this thread to just say "yep, 3yos are shits at bedtime - godspeed" but that does sound genuinely horrendous for you.

If it helps, both of my kids have been atrocious at bedtimes when they were 3, and they grew out of it before they turned 4.

Both of them were helped to at least stay in their rooms by having something to listen to; my eldest liked classical music or Queen , youngest preferred audiobooks. It would keep them in their rooms (idgaf if they got up and looked at books or played with their stuffed animals in there, we had a very dim red light so they could see) while I got stuff done before bed, then at a specified time I'd go in and turn it off. Eventually they started falling asleep listening, but when they didn't I'd turn it off, take them for a last wee, give them a last drink and then sit on the floor in their room by the door until they fell asleep. I'd hum a song over and over and if they tried to talk to me at that point I'd just keep humming or say "yep ok time to sleep love you"... sounds awful but I know they'd had plenty of attention all day and a very involved bedtime with lots of communication.

One of my children also needed to do more like crashing their body into stuff and being wrapped up tight in a blanket to calm their body before bed, gentle stretching would have done f all for him.

How stressful.if this has come feom no where and he is honestly just testing the water I would spend a couple of days pretending to talk on the phone to a relative about how DS was going to start being such an amazing good boy. I'm going to bed properly without letting him know you know he can hear.
Tell them that he is going to get the best reward for being such a good boy
I would then keep reminding him how in a couple of days he was going to be such a grown up big boy. Agree a very basic bedtime routine (bath, teeth, no. Of stories, no of songs sung etc l)
On the day he was going to then start doing this, i would get him an amazing sticker chart. *I woukd draw this!.
In the morning, I would remind him that it's a really great day, because this is his night.He goes to bed like a big boy without any fuss and it's so good because he's going to get a sticker to work towards his big prize.
About half an hour before bed time, I would remind him of this.
Bed time would be very quiet. Food at 5pm, no TV or screens then, just playing..bathand teeth at six, again no exciting games. Little massage. Low lighting. Agree a number of bedtime stories. Sing an agreed number of songs.
Tell him how proud you are and then lights off.
If he then gets out if bed say if you get if bed once more the door will be locked.m saying not a word.
Then hold it until he gives up. Rinse and repeat.

I would remove all sleep pressure for a while.

Put a gate on his door, make his room safe and then let him read/play quietly for as long as he wants.

Or if this won't work put him infront of the TV until he passes out on the sofa.

While these might not be ideal it sounds like as soon as the demand to sleep is upon him he goes into fight mode. You need to break this habit. For a while do what you can to remove the demand to sleep.

Also, as he's generally amenable during the day start working on him playing independently so you can get some cleaning/chores done during the day. Get him to help as well. Reserve the few hours in the evening as time for you to relax.

I've actually tried this a few times, he will lie there and fidget and mess about and then decide eventually that he wants to go to sleep in his own bed - he prefers space when he's going to sleep. Even on nights when he wants a cuddle it's fine until he decides he's actually wanting to sleep and then I'm told to get out! I also feel like if he starts to sleep in my bed then I'm not even able to switch off when I'm asleep... I've never been able to sleep when cosleeping.

He started to be dry at night and the sleep going up the left seems to have coincided with that. He does get quite upset when he has the odd 'wet' night. But I've always been very reassuring that that's just part of learning and that's OK it will happen sometimes.

I could see the idea of body crashing working for him... what does this look like in your house? Is it just jumping and dropping on the bed or what types of movement helps and I'll try that?

He does love a sticker actually so I could put a wee sticker chart on the back of his bedroom door that could also work quite well - thanks everyone for the great suggestions I really appreciate it!

This sounds good and he is getting better at independent play but I usually end up using screen time if I need to get things done. I work 8-6 every day including commute and then am straight into dinner bath bed routine for 7.30ish sleep time so unless it's the weekend I don't really have the option to clean during the day when he's playing. And I usually (when I'm not a zombie) keep on top of everything during the week so I can be fully present on Saturdays and Sundays and we'll be out doing things together all day. I feel like i work too hard during the week to not be making the most of the weekend. So my evenings to clean are really crucial, but maybe I need to try and let that go a bit and look at a new routine.

Too much attention- story ,cuddle then go downstairs to make' important phone calls.' If he gets up he goes back to bed. Don't talk to him other than say it's bed time now. He will probably push back massively to start with but if you keep at it then he'll know you mean business. If he kicks ,ignore and walk away with as little emotion as possible. Sounds like it's become a great game and a fantastic way to get mum's attention.

A gate sounds like a good suggestion as long as he won't get over it,ds would have easily done at that age.

If he is waking at 7-7.30 and has not been napping for a while he may just consistently need a later bedtime. Aiming for 7.30 bedtime is aiming for 12hrs asleep which is quite high for some. My 3.5yo who does not nap cannot do more than 11hrs at night. He wakes at 6/6.30 and is tired by 7.30, 8. If I was to aim for him to be asleep by 6.30pm he would absolutely stall me for a long time. Could it be that you are starting bedtime routine at a time when he is no longer tired and so he is trying lots of delay tactics? If you started it an hour later what would this look like? I don't think the light nights help either mine is fighting it a bit even when tired but everything you're saying points to either boundary pushing to seek more connection time, or a drop in sleep needs.

I would give it a try because, unrelated to the sleep issue, it's really important for kids to see the effort that goes into running a home and to take an age-appropriate part in this. This is true for all children and families, but particularly a single mother raising a son, don't let him grow up in an environment where you kill yourself doing everything while he sleeps so as not to inconvenience him! Think about what sort of young man you want him to be and start laying the foundation now. It'll be actively good for him to learn that the day out will begin after the hoovering is done/laundry is hung etc.

Could it be that he is worried about wetting the bed in his sleep? He probably can't tell you that but I wonder if it would help him to go to bed in pull-ups for a while longer.

If he likes a sticker chart he could have a sticker for each dry night, so that he can see how many nights are dry ones. He can have a small reward every so often but I wouldn't push him to leave the pull ups off until he tells you he doesn't need them.

We’ve had all sorts of issues with sleep over the years. Audiobook and weighted blanket were a big help but also just keeping at it with insisting. As others have suggested, he’s looking for attention, so make yourself obviously busy doing really boring things which won’t interest him. I think there’s a fair amount of FOMO going on here. Good luck!

I did wonder this as well but I've tried pushing bedtime back to 8/8.30 and its still just the same.

The connection time theory is tricky because I really do my best to give him as much as I physically can give. We've been together solidly over the bank hol and done so much lovely stuff and we genuinely have great days together every weekend, I make sure I take a bit of time when dinner is cooking /prep in advance so i can sit down and play with him or read to him or he'll cook and do tasks with me. I praise him all the time and be silly all the time to try and keep things fun. I'd say we have a good connection generally. If I feel like he needs more I'll use my flexi to leave work early and collect him earlier to give us more time. I literally don't know where I could fit any more time in and I do make a really conscious effort not to be on my phone or distracted unless I'm doing something I have to do (like ordering the food shop for example) and then I'll explain it.

He does have tasks he does, we clean his bedroom together, he sorts his clothes into their shelves, puts dirty clothes in the basket and helps me do the laundry (load and unload the machine and fold the clean laundry) , sometimes he'll make his own dinner with some help and we do any work in the garden together. He loves a job and is great at tidying away his toys etc without any fuss and if he's messing at bedtime I will say to him mummy needs to go downstairs to do xyz because I work hard to keep our house nice for both of us to enjoy. So he does have jobs to do and I'm acutely aware that I'm laying the foundations for teenage him, but some jobs are just easier without him under my feet or things like dishes and cleaning down the kitchen usually need to wait until after he's in bed because of the time we eat at.

He sounds like a lovely little chap. I hope the bedtime problems resolve soon!

He's still in pull ups. He's maybe wet 1 night in 2.5 weeks on average so enough that I've just been happy enough to keep them on him. So he's never waking up wet wet if that makes sense. The nights he's wet are usually the nights when he's crashed hard and has gone into obviously such a deep sleep because he's been so tired.

I don’t know if it will work as they are older and we start sometime c. 1 yo.

We use a toniebox. They pick the tonie as the last part of the get in bed routine. You sit outside the door. They get out of bed and you remove the tonie. When they get into bed and lie down you put it back on. You don’t say you’re going to do this you just do it. It’s just what happens when you sit up or get out of bed. If they keep faffing 3/4 times then just calmly do you not like the story, or we pick the young one up for a cuddle and let them pick a new story.

They learn pretty quick if they want to listen to the story they need to be in bed lying down.

With the eldest now they have moved on to a yoti and operate it themselves. Youngest is 15 months and understands it.

Sounds horrid, OP. Have you thought about child meditation apps? Mine used to listen to these stories every night at that age until about the age of 8 which are, essentially, age appropriate relaxation stories. The App Store should have plenty

Just a different idea but maybe he's overtired. If he was asking to go to bed at 7pm but that didn't happen you may have missed the perfect window for putting him to bed. They get a cortisol spike which makes them seem not tired at all and take ages to put to bed. Then once asleep they struggle to stay asleep as they're still overtired. Have you tried an earlier bedtime? Even if he's not always overtired this month of poor sleep and late nights could be keeping him overtired. I'd watch his mood on an evening and if he seems tired get him straight to bed even if you need to skip his bath sometimes.

My 3.5 year old can sleep anything from 10.5 hours to 13.5 hours. He'll seem quite sleepy around bedtime but if I miss the ideal window he'll go really hyper and have a much harder time falling asleep and staying asleep.

I did also try earlier bedtimes especially for nights he seemed tired or when I knew he'd had a busy day and then on those nights he'd wake at midnight and stay awake until near 3am. So I took that to mean that, that was too early for him? It's all so out of whack that it's really hard to know for sure if he needs earlier or later and I think I'm at the point where I'm nearly scared to make it worse!

How long are we thinking is long enough to trial earlier or later bedtimes? Is two/ three nights in a row long enough if its not working before I switch to the alternative? Or do I need to stick it out longer to give it a fair shot at working?