3yo bedtimes are doing me in.

[Bedtimedisaster]

Ds is three and a half. During the day he's honestly an angel, easy pleased helpful does what you ask for the most part. He has his moments of course but all very manageable.

Then we get to bedtime. And he is like a child possessed. He will do ANYTHING to fight bedtime. A million toilet trips, sneaking out of bed to read or get his toys, constantly creeping out and asking for me (doesn't want me to hold him or anything else it's purely a delay tactic) wants this that the other, his pillow and bedding has mysteriously ended up on the floor and he needs help, he's decided he can't possibly have his lamp in his room anymore etc. Very frustrating but I work through it and am very consistent with saying its bedtime and putting him back to bed and try not to give too much attention. I've tried the ' you don't need to sleep but you do need to stay in bed and let your body rest quietly' tactic. Lasts 5 min.

Then it just descends into hitting, slapping, kicking, spitting anything he can possibly do to provoke a reaction and lead to a time out (which is time out of bed so seems like a positive alternative at the time to him). Of course once he's on time out then he doesn't like it. I'm very clear with him that I'm the boss of my own body and I won't let anyone hurt me like that and I'll remove myself, but then he's straight out of bed running about. I can't just ignore him as he'll continue to escalate to doing dangerous things I know he knows is dangerous in order to get me to intervene.

The entire nonsense takes HOURS. Most nights this week he's been going until well after 11pm sometimes closer to midnight. I know he's tired, tonight he's still going now even though he asked me if he could go to bed at 7pm because he was so tired and i could see he was, we've spent a full day at the beach.

We're really active, we pack lots of fun into a day and he gets little screen time and lots of time outdoors so I know he's tired and not getting enough sleep for what he does in a day. In the mornings he's still up as normal at around 7/7.30 even if I don't wake him. There is no napping during the day.

On the odd night he will crash and go to sleep immediately at around 7.30/8pm but then he wakes up around midnight when I'm going to bed (obv sleeping very lightly to hear me as I'm really quiet) and that's him up until 3am or more.

As a completely lone parent I am absolutely done in. My house has gone to shit, I have energy for nothing, I'm in foul form every evening because you better believe I get through the day waiting for an hour or two down time where I can clean and get my housework done in peace or just get a hot drink before bed or god forbid have an actual shower and wash myself. I'm starting to struggle getting up for work in the morning and on days I wfh I now need to nap during my lunch break because I'm so knackered. I just about get the basics done to keep the house in a semi decent state but so many nights I am so emotionally drained after bedtime all I am fit for is going to my own bed or sitting in silence on my phone. I used to really enjoy my evenings as a little sliver of time for me.

We're well over a month in of this and I don't know what else to do.

We do a little gentle stretching to get his energy out before bed, we do the same bedtime routine - bath jammies teeth book cuddle and goodnight. He has blackout blinds in his room. The area we live in is really quiet so no noise from outside or next door keeping him up.

I'm not the best multitasker and because it's just the two of us I do rely on getting my cleaning etc done at night so I can be present for him during the day and to stop us falling too far behind it one of us gets sick or I have a busy period in work.

I feel like I'm 'on' 100% of the time I'm awake at the moment and it's sending my stress levels through the roof. I have very limited options for childcare and I save them for illness or work events I have to attend. Family have no interest in taking him just because and I feel like I need to beg for my mum or sister to babysit once every few months. (I take my sisters kids regularly because she works a lot).

I just don't know how to break this sleep issue. Up to a few months ago this child was like magic and slept a solid 10-12 hrs every night and a bomb could have gone off without him stirring. I think I also just need to vent because it's hard dealing with it alone and having noone to bounce off.

I will look into this, sometimes if he's happy for me to lie beside him but is pushing for more stories I'll narrate something like that to help him use his breathing and get grounded in his bed and think of happy things before sleeping. So that could be an option- tonie box I will look into as well!

I appreciate kids have different language abilities at that age, but have you asked him and talked to him about what he feels? when my nearly 3 yo was going through difficult nights we had a few convos about it and found out there were some issues at nursery that was bothering him.
softly done throughout the day so its not a pressurised convo.

It was around this age we invested in a Yoto, so my DD could have more stories after I went downstairs. That helped her to settle.

Hi does sound like such a lovely kid. And you are doing a great job.
We have to do a movement break before bed to give a hit of dopamine before he is ready to sleep. It's hard work and exhausting but I tell myself it won't be for ever (I hope).
Has he got a mini trampoline ?

OP i really feel for you- this sounds SO tough!! I find bedtime routines hard with a partner around to help and working part time, so can't imagine having to cope in your situation.You sound so patient!

I am wondering if his behaviours are coming from wanting to connect with you after a day apart and not really having a chance, as being away from you all day every day at 3 must be hard for him.I know you try hard to give him lots of time at the weekend but thats a long gap between each one.

I think, leave the housework as much as you can during the week other than the daily essentials such as the dish washing, emptying bins etc, doing lots of that sounds too much in the evening after a tiring day so no wonder you're burnt out.
Instead, make time to play with him before bed maybe doing a little game, puzzle, drawing or something else (we do this and call it 'little play') they say that even 10 mins of uninterrupted 1-1 play each day can make a big difference.

If you have to spend some of the time cleaning at the weekend you'll still have plenty for him too, but don't feel you have to be taking him out or engaging with him literally all weekend
I think it sounds like little and often would work better than longer and less often with him getting your positive attention.
Hopefully if he can get this more, he might then reduce the negative attention seeking behaviours you are seeing.

Or, if financially viable could you hire a cleaner to take some of the load with the housework?

Also, my little girl is 4 and responds well to being read a made up story to get to sleep.Understand you may not have the brain power for this all the time, but maybe something to try sometimes.

Oh interesting! That does sounds like bedtime was a little too early if waking for long periods during the night. Is there room to move it a little later or would that just be normal time? Does he ever get to sleep at the time you aim for or is is always just late or early?

Yeah I'd say 2 or 3 nights is plenty and if you get the same outcome of awake for hours in the night then that's probably not the issue.

Maybe you just need to keep things a bit calmer so he's less wound up and able to go to bed at a normal time rather than early or late. For reference, I take my 3yo upstairs around 6:45, he'll play while I gather his things for bedtime and the next day, then he'll have a bath and we play and chat and have fun with no distractions (glow sticks, bubbles, music all great additions), then get him dried, pjs, teeth, one slow story in my bed and then we go into his room, say goodnight and then I stay with him until he goes to sleep (I just lie on the floor, it's pretty peaceful haha). He'll sometimes chatter a bit, ask questions, but ultimately he wants me to stay until he's asleep as if I pop out he makes sure I'm going to come back. If he messes on a lot I put a bit of a limit on it and say I'm staying for 10 more minutes and then I'm going as I think I'm just distracting you from going to sleep, he normally gets the hint and goes to sleep after that. He also has a clock that changes colour when he should be asleep which has been helpful too.

Maybe if you keep him busy with so much positive interaction he'll be too distracted to do all the things that get him negative attention. Also, sounds like time out is become a reward instead of a punishment so maybe a different consequence like a loss of a privilege the next day or something.

Again, just some ideas, no judgement :)

He is very good with his language and he has some great books (we got the tiny monsters book box set and I'd really recommend them, they're silly and he loves them and they're very good explanations of different emotions and managing emotions). If I ask him he says he's just not sleepy and he's angry because its bedtime and he doesn't want to go to sleep yet (even if he's asked to go to sleep - toddler logic). We always have a good chat on the way home from nursery and during dinner so he has plenty of opportunity to talk about anything worrying him from the day or in general.

He doesn't, we don't really have the space for one. I used to get him to run up and down the hall to get his "wiggles" out before bed and that worked well but now we're in a terrace and I'm very aware of how annoying that would be for the next door neighbour if we did that. Though I'm sure the shouting and crying probably isn't much better... so maybe 5-10min of bouncing around would be less annoying...

Cleaner would be lovely but not financially viable at the moment. If I ever win the lottery though...

I do make sure we have about 15-30mins of proper connected playtime together when he gets home and I'll sit on the floor with him and we'll role play with his little figures or build his magnatiles together either before dinner or while it's cooking. I usually batch cook so our meals are really quick to make on a week night. Then he'll usually come in and keep me company while I get dinner plated and we'll talk or play games over dinner and then another quick play together before bed just to let his dinner settle.

I physically can't do any more than that because I just don't have any more hours in the day.

My 4th was like this . I ended up just letting him fall asleep on the sofa and carrying him up . He's 40 now and is perfectly well balanced, has a great job and has not suffered one bit from our bedtime non routine .

Sometimes he asks for this but he hasn't in a while so I will actually try and do this again tonight. He loves laying and me telling him memory stories of adventures we've been on so that's a great suggestion thank you.

Thanks I wasn't sure if I wasn't giving it long enough so that's reassuring. He only goes to sleep quickly at bedtime after a few days on the trot of going to bed really late and then up early in the morning so I feel like it's more that he's crashing from exhaustion than anything else. On those days by dinner time he's grumpy and will be trying to put himself to nap on the sofa instead of wanting to play but those are also usually the nights where he'll wake at midnight when I'm going to bed.

The clock is a good idea especially if he wakes up in the night it might be a good way to point out that it's not time to get up yet so he might go back over.

I also might start sitting quietly on the floor to see if he'll stay in bed that way.

I usually start off with a consequence like that but had to introduce the time outs because he just didn't give a hoot. He'll just say that he didn't want that thing to happen/ that toy/ that yoghurt anyway and continues to escalate until I feel like I don't know where else to go with it and I end up doing a time out. I always try to be careful with consequences to make sure its something I'm actually prepared to follow through on but it then becomes increasingly hard to think of something that's impactful but that I will be able to actually do. He's 100% my child because he's quite chill and if something doesn't happen the next day he'll just accept it and move on to something else more positive so it doesn't really phase him. I tried last night telling him that if he went to sleep well I'd build him a surprise with his magnatiles to find in the morning which usually he really loves and would ask for but if he's messing about then I won't. And he was still up to 10.30 refusing to stay in bed and sneaking out to read books etc. I tried the approach a pp suggested of not putting pressure on it and forcing him to sleep but at that time I felt like I had to intervene because it was so late and I knew he'd be a small ball of rage getting up in the morning which of course he was (again, not a morning person and definitely my son.)

On the up side I booked myself a couple of days off work so I was able to stay much calmer because I knew I'd have today and tomorrow to get back on top of the house so I didn't have that horrible feeling of 'this is all waiting on me at whatever time he goes to bed at and I'm going to be knackered'. I really noticed that makes it so much harder for me to stay regulated myself when he's struggling.

This is reassuring as sometimes I do worry about his development if he doesn't get enough sleep.

I really don't see him ever falling asleep on the sofa but will keep that in my back pocket as maybe he could just do his own thing while I clean around him at least to take my own pressure off.

Yes having space for the trampoline is a pain they are not easy to store away either.
Might be worth considering if you can keep it outside if you have a shed or storage unit and bring it in when necessary.
We also play hide and seek or another one called fetch 5 items begining with ....or you could do 5 yellow items etc.

It is helping me. I'm in a semi so completely get being thoughtful towards the neighbour but the other option is all the screaming shouting and crying (adults and child) so I've decided all this running around for 15/20 mins is preferable.

Who said having kids is easy ???😱

Sorry that sounds horrendous and exhausting. I really feel for you. I don’t have any advice, other than to say hang in there. It will get better.

Glad you've got a few days off to reduce your load a little.

I hope the clock and staying in the room help. The clock has been amazing for number recognition as well as understanding of time. Ours turns red at 7pm and then blue at 7am. It doesn't always work but if he glances at it in the night he knows it's not time to get up yet. I also find a little gentle competition helps sometimes, my son was very chatty last night when he was supposed to be going to sleep and I was heading out so needed him to hurry up so I said 'I think I'm going to fall asleep first', he said 'no i am' and was asleep within minutes haha.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I am just repeating things, but the following seem to help my very active toddler fall asleep (sometimes!)

Burning off all the energy before bed - running around, dance off, jumping from the sofa onto cushions etc. He just won't sleep until he is absolutely shattered. We've been known to do two soft plays in one day

Sleeping in a room where there are no toys, books or other distractions I.e. my bedroom. It is delightfully boring, so if he gets out of bed, there is absolutely nothing for him to do. He can't leave the room as I lock us both in. He gets bored and goes back to bed, especially as I am mute and immovable if he tries rolling around on the floor to get a reaction.

The same audiobook each night as a signal for bedtime.

Physically lying next to him, sometimes with my arm across him for comfort.

Time and attention - like you, I am a lone parent and don't have a lot of time to give (I do night time house jobs too!) but there is 100% correlation between me not giving my little one enough attention and my child acting out at bedtime. To be honest, I've just lowered my standards and the house is not what I want it to be. It's the price I have to pay for decent sleep!

Best of luck OP. Sleep deprivation for you and your child is very hard!

So last night I tried the suggestion of doing his normal routine then sitting quietly in the room not really engaging but just being present strategy and that actually worked a charm, he didn't get out of bed and we had an 8.30 bedtime! 🙌🙌 that was until he fell out of bed at 1.30am and scared himself and was then awake until 4... but the actual bedtime itself was a success so I'm still shattered but I'm taking the win and will try that again tonight!
(He does have a bed rail but must have turned himself around to the other end of the bed at some stage in his sleep probably with the heat)

That sounds like a big improvement! Hope you get the same tonight but without the fall out of bed🤞

I think theres far too much going on here
All the dancing about just gets them excited when it should be wind down time

Dinner, bath ,teeth,story and bed, lights out and I would either sit until he sleeps or lock the door
Our bedtime routine was 45 mins
Once they were settled in bed I went downstairs and did my chores with music on
Absolutely no up and down
Mine had a wee, non spillable cup of water.
Kept everything in the night as boring as possible, no chat just reply " bed " to everything
I bored mine to sleep 😂

Yep, that's the way to do it in my experience. Make it really unexciting.