14 y/o niece wants to turn things around but her parents are dismissive

[Owlsintheforest]

My 14 y/o niece (DN) is failing in school, she is bottom set in everything and has a habit of clowning around/showing off. Her behaviour has been enabled my SIL and DB because they don't give DN any attention at all - so DN plays up and if the teachers raise it with parents, they defend DN so this is quite literally the only attention she gets. DN's parents just don't care, they don't ask her about school, homework, DN has never read a book, spends hours on TikTok etc.

DN has had some sort of epiphany recently. She face-timed me to talk about her future job prospects and career - I was pleasantly surprised because I felt like this was very mature of her to be thinking this way. She said that when she goes into year 10 (September) she would like to move to a STEM school so that she can focus on science and biology. She said her mum/dad will say no to this, so she put together a 'slide deck' proposal to present to her parents to argue changing schools.

Anyway - while I was on a face-time call with DN, she wanted to ask her mum if she could share her presentation so she went and asked SIL (her mum) for '5 minutes to talk to her about something'... My SIL shouted 'NOOOO" in quite an aggressive way and just sat their scrolling on her phone. My DN ran upstairs on the cusp of tears, you could clearly see she felt so rejected that her mum has zero interest in her/her power point presentation (that she'd spent days on). Her 10 y/o sister even made a poster with 'Go Sister' on it to cheer her on while she did her presentation to her mum and dad. My DB wasn't in the room but came up to speak to DN separately - he said 'he'd speak to mum about it because he doesn't know what STEM is'.

Next day DN whatsapps me saying 'mum and dad said no to STEM, so I give up, they said that STEM school is for the thicko badly behaved kids'.. she was completely defeated.

I just felt so sad for her, but she has been messaging me daily saying that she is going to get her school behaviour score to 100% green (currently 40% good / 60% bad).. My DH and I are encouraging her so much, giving her attention and a confidence boost. DN is doing this off her own back, her parents just simply don't give a shit.

Also worth noting, DN wants to move school because the school bully keeps calling her and her friend 'sl*gs' writing it on the school walls.

Sorry I am not really too sure what I am hoping to get from this thread, I am 6 months pregnant with a baby girl and I just couldn't imagine treating my child this way and not showing any sort of interest 😔and I am furious with my brother for this because our mother was so nasty and uninterested in us also so you'd think he'd do better.

I used AI for the TL;DR:

My 14-year-old niece has always struggled at school and acted up for attention because her parents are emotionally checked out and dismissive of her. Recently she’s had a huge turnaround and wants to improve her future — she even made a PowerPoint asking to move to a STEM school for Year 10 to focus on science/biology. Her mum aggressively refused to even listen to the presentation, her dad was clueless, and they ultimately said no and dismissed STEM schools as being for “thicko badly behaved kids.” Meanwhile my niece is being bullied at school and is desperately trying to improve her behaviour and grades with encouragement from me and my husband, because her parents show zero interest or support. As a pregnant mum-to-be myself, I’m heartbroken and angry seeing the cycle of neglect from our own upbringing repeating with her.

Aw, that sounds really depressing. Why don't you encourage her to do as well as she can in her GCSEs, with a view to getting into a sixth form with a good reputation for STEM subjects? (you can look at the criteria for local sixth forms and colleges with her). Getting her behaviour score up too is a great plan. It sounds like her parents are not going to help her so someone is going to need to.

How on earth do you think DN would be able to get into a STEM school if her current behaviour is that bad and she is the bottom set in everything?

Your DN is now extremely upset because, in part you let her believe moving school was achievable….never mind that her parents aren’t interested. How is this helpful?

You’re also not her guardian, so unlike her parents, you won’t be getting called into meetings about her behaviour and grades. You clearly don’t have the full picture.

It sounds like DN wants to leave school, for reasons such as bullying, but is using pie in the sky ideals to try and influence others to let her move.

You aren’t being helpful by feeding into this. If you want to help- walk her back from this idea about STEM schools.

She has to work on and there be EVIDENCE of a real change in:

• behaviour
• academics

ONLY then, should anyone even be entertaining the idea of going to a STEM school IF her behaviour is good and her grades are good enough.

In the meantime, you can also help with finding out about the bullying if she confides in you and informing your DB who should be sorting this out at school.

You've not yet experienced the hardships of parenting and think you need to wise up.

This is a great idea, she said that she wants to study psychology after school to become a victim advocate.. Her local college said she needs GCSE grade 4 for this which DN thinks she can achieve. I just hope her stupid parents don't nay-say this also.. DN once said she wants to be a nurse and SIL shat all over it saying that 'she'll be wiping peoples arses HAHAHAHA' literally the laugh after...

God the poor kids. They don't stand a chance with shitty parents like this, it's so sad.

Not sure what you can do OP other than keep on being a steady and encouraging presence in her life - she is lucky to have you and I hope your relationship with her gets closer over time, and hopefully helps counter the bad influences on the poor girl. Keep it up!

How on earth do you think DN would be able to get into a STEM school if her current behaviour is that bad and she is the bottom set in everything? - DN showed me the acceptance criteria on the STEM schools website.

Your DN is now extremely upset because, in part you let her believe moving school was achievable….never mind that her parents aren’t interested. How is this helpful? - where have I said I let her believe this is achievable for her? I have only encouraged her to 'knuckle down' so to speak.

Everything else you've assumed - yes already doing that, hence mentioning that my niece is talking about behaviour improvements - I didn't think I needed to add to my thread how I responded to my niece because it's pretty obvious.

You've not yet experienced the hardships of parenting and think you need to wise up - maybe not, but I am the child of parents who have shown zero interest so I can speak from this side of it.

There is nothing at all wrong with you wanting to support your DN in her aspirations - part of that will of course consist of bringing realism to the matter.

I would encourage her to go and talk to school so that she can tell them that she wants to try and turn things around and they will be delighted and will do all they can to help her I am sure. She can show them her powerpoint presentation - I am sure they would be happy to see that. She also needs to talk with them about the bullying.

Continue to support and encourage her, but let her go to those in the know who can really make a difference for her.

It is a great pity that her parents do not seem to be stepping up, but I do think you need to keep well away from taking sides on this and simply encourage her to seek help where there is real professional advice to be found.

Thank you for your kind words. We have a very close relationship, I just feel for her, she is so lonely.

Op unless you have witnessed first hand more incidents than the "nooooo" then I'd suggest taking this with a pinch of salt.

Ok, so there’s quite a lot going on here.

firstly, changing schools is quite tricky. It’s not as simple as applying and see if you get in. To begin with many schools are full in particular year groups, so although she may want to change schools there are a LOT of adults to convince first.

in addition, the new school will ask for a reference from her current school and that reference will give details of her attendance, what sets she is in, internal exam results etc.

it is possible for teens who are really struggling at school to try for a fresh start at another school (this is usually via the managed move process) but both schools have to agree and the new school has her “on approval” as it were and if she messes up she’s back to the old school.

and that’s not even considering whether her mum and dad can physically get her to the new school (are there other children? Do they work?)

an awful lot of teens who have spent most of their first three years in secondary school doing fuck all work and being a grade A pain in the bum do realise as it gets to GCSEs that it is suddenly shit hitting the fan time and they are about to see the consequences of fucking around.

her parents if they are anything like the parents I used to speak to (I used to be a teacher) have spent years and years trying to get her to do her homework, getting her to school, doing reading with her, etc etc.

there does come a point where you do just have to let them face consequences.

once you are a decade into making your child do homework you might understand how fucking exhausting it is dealing with a child who just won’t and would rather fuck around.

I would encourage her to work hard and behave well at her current school, so that when she applies for sixth form ( this is done by her not her parents) she has a good choice of options.
Yes college will let her take A-level psychology with the grade 4s, but to get on to a good degree course that will give her good career prospects she needs much higher. Psychology degrees are very competitive.

What a negative pov. At least the child has recognised that she needs to change things, has some kind of a plan and some ambition - regardless of how realistic it is.

Some support to the OP who clearly wants to help wouldn't go amiss.

Can you persuade her to be very frank with her current school? Is there someone in pastoral care or a head of year that might be interested in mentoring her and might pass the message to other staff that she’s turned a corner and is trying hard?

Hard for a kid that age but if she really wants to do well then she needs to be mature enough to request a meeting with such an adult and go in with ( perhaps) a written agenda or letter she has written maybe with your help.

Explain that it’s dawned on her that she needs to earn a living preferably doing something she likes and that means she has to stop clowning around, behave and work hard. She tells them that her parents have zero interest and that she feels she needs help in developing strategies to manage any temptation to behave poorly, to improve academically and to know what academic targets she needs to reach etc. She needs career guidance and help.

Hope things work out for her.

Making a slide deck isn't hard. Teenagers seem to think Powerpoints are the answer to everything when having a discussion does the same job.

Actually changing your behaviour and demonstrating a better attitude is very hard and until she does that it's unlikely her parents- who have dealt with many years by now of issues at school and home- will take her very seriously.

As someone who hasn't even given birth yet, you have no idea of the challenges involved in raising a rebellious teen, and unless you live with them, you know nothing about how much attention they give her.

Encourage her to speak to her hoy and pastoral care.
Encourage her to keep working hard.
Offer a homework space at your house
Let her know she is responsible for her future and to work with her school teachers
If she cannot change school now she will have chances later
If she confides in school they will support her
Tell her not to give up it is just four years and she can leave home
if home life is really dire abusive neglectful there are options
But maybe buckling down and riding it out and ignoring their comments is best strategy

Making a slide deck isn't hard. Teenagers seem to think Powerpoints are the answer to everything when having a discussion does the same job.

Taking time to write down why she wants to go to the school is actually a good idea as it could be a question she’d be asked if she was going to visit a new school. Plus my recollection of being a teen was having strong emotions but not being so good at explaining them which is why teens and parents often clash.

She probably picked PowerPoint as it’s a popular way on social media to try and convince a parent/partner/whoever to do something like get a dog. I don’t think it’s weird.

I totally agree with pp that she should apply to the STEM school after GCSEs as it’s her who makes the application rather than the parents.

Does the STEM school take extra students in year 10 and have specific criteria for them? This sounds unusual.

Why do the parents think STEM school is for thickos? I would've thought it would be quite competitive.

Why can’t she do STEM where she is? Maybe she could prove herself first then swap for sixth form. Specialist schools are not a panacea and she still has to get gcses in English etc alongside. You can be supportive in giving her your time and space but ultimately it needs to come from her. Are there any activities or volunteering opportunities locally which may keep her interest o4 trips you can accompany her on like to a science museum.

I've not heard of a STEM school. I know what STEM is and I know what a school is so I can make a guess but I have no concept about how many there are or why you'd choose to go to a STEM school rather than focus on STEM subjects in your GCSE choices.

The bullying is a issue that needs addressing with the school. It is not fair that the bullied person feels the need to leave rather than the school dealing with the bully (although I know a couple of young people in real life who've left their school for this reason - one doing very well at another school and one out of school altogether).

Going to a STEM school isn't the only way to focus on STEM subjects and pull her socks up academically and behaviourally. She can do that in her current school and I'm sure the school and the staff would love to see it and support it.

Where is the STEM school? How would she get there? Is it a free school or one with fees?

It's sad that it sounds like she's not getting support and encouragement at home. However, I can also imagine that if she's got to 14 before a change of heart following years of being disruptive and not that bothered, perhaps they just don't believe it's a genuine commitment. Doesn't mean I agree with them.

She needs to demonstrate some real resilience and maturity and have these conversations about her ambitions and newly found focus with her current form tutor, head of year, leads in the STEM subjects.

A distant relative moved out of her school into other provision following years of class disruption and persistent absences with all the promises of turning over a new leaf, taxis paid for by the LA, lots of uplifting and positive conversations with family about her career dreams and what steps she needed to take to turn things around and it didn't last. She's got no qualifications. No job. Her parent is a big part of this as she's not worked, has no ambition. You need the parents on side big time.

I can see how the slide deck / powerpoint presentation is cute and sounds like a statement of intent but it can't make the change in a vacuum.

What can you do? Talk with your brother. Suggest a meeting with him, his daughter and someone from her school about 1. the bullying and 2. the career inspiration and 3. the commitment to changing her attitude and relationships in school and with homework etc.

This will all be so much harder than it needs to be without her current school engaging.

On the plus side a 14 year old realising (seemingly of their own accord) that they need to change and that they are (in part) the problem is a good start. Most teens whine and blame everyone else - I don’t think I realised I was the problem till I was about 17 so she’s off to a good start.

She needs to talk to her teachers, form tutor, head of year, pastoral care ect. Anyone in school who will listen and can support her. Behavioural changes are hard, I was a very disruptive teenager, never in bottom set but I used to get in trouble a lot. She will need support for teachers which will probably look like them being stricter, moving her seat away from friends if she’s chatting, reminding her to make good choices ect. It won’t be “fun” it will probably feel like a ball ache, but it will be worth it.

What a depressing post. Why are you directing your bile towards the op (who is trying to help) and the child (who is trying to improve herself) instead of the two lazy, useless parents in this situation?

Sadly I have - there's a lot more examples that I could write a book on.

I am just catching up on some of the posts but just to address a few things -

STEM SCHOOL - a few have mentioned that they've never heard of a STEM school nor one that accepts children from year 10. The STEM school is part of the town college and only opens for year 10 & 11 students. It's a relatively new part of the college that only opened in 2021. I can't answer why they've called it a school and not college, and I don't know why it's only available from year 10 onwards.

BULLY - DN has raised with the teachers about the bully, bully kid gets suspended quite a lot but the school keeps accepting her back. DN showed me a video of bully attacking another girl (who looked about 10 years old), teachers just stood there watching bully pound the other girl to the floor - a few boys managed to get the bully off the girl and had to physically restrain her (she's built like a rugby player). Many parents have complained about the bully - bully did go to another school for a short while but got kicked out and DNs school accepted her back.

TRAVEL to STEM SCHOOL - DN will get a short bus from home to the college/school which is in the town centre - she regularly gets the bus to the town centre. Her grandad has offered to pay for the bus fair and her nan has offered to do pick up/drop offs during the colder winter months or whenever is needed.

MY INPUT w/ DN - I am very hands off and listen to DN only, I have not encouraged nor discouraged her to do anything. I appreciate that I am not a parent so haven't gone through the homework battles, but that wasn't my point. My point was that if my child ever came to me and calmly asked for 5 mins of my time. I couldn't imagine just responding NOOOOO - what if my DN had been SA'd and that's what she wanted to talk to her mum about.

Is she still able to make an application? I'd have thought May would be a bit late for September?

Your niece is very fortunate to
have you in her life. We all make mistakes,
especially when young, and deserve a second chance. With your
support, I hope your niece will be
able to change her attitude and turn over a
new leaf. As a former
secondary school teacher, it really is possible. I saw it happen a couple of
times! Good luck OP, and to your niece too.