Pulling pants down on sibling advice please

[LoftyDenimDeer]

Hey 👋 I wondered if anyone could offer advice or if they’ve experienced behaviour like this please?

My 6 year old (Year 1) is awaiting ADHD assessment. I also have a 2 year old and 11 year old.

A few times in the recent past my 6 year old has pulled down and removed my 2 years olds joggers/leggings (doesn’t remove nappy) when i’ve not been in the room. Then comes and tells me. I’ve told him that it’s not acceptable behaviour and he’s not to remove his brothers clothes. But he’s done it a couple more times this week and lied that it wasn’t him but after much pressing he admits it was him and he either says he doesn’t know why he did it or says something like “it’s because baby brother threw XYZ at me”.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve told him very sternly about boundaries. I didn’t know if this may be an ADHD thing? But my mind is also going to the worst outcome too. My mind is spiralling very quickly. I just don’t tbh j this is normal behaviour?

Any advice welcome.

Thanks x

This would not be a stern warning event, he may be 6 but removing another person's clothing is unacceptable.

I would shout and send him to his room the next time it occurs irrespective of ADHD.

Of course it’s not normal behaviour for a child to repeatedly remove the clothing of a younger sibling and continue to do so when told it is not allowed and to lie about doing it.

If I were you, I’d call the NSPCC for advice because it is worrying and I’d be concerned that somebody could be removing the clothing of your six year old. In the meantime, don’t leave your boys alone together and do not allow your six year old to be in a situation other than school where you are not there.

Hello xxx so sorry you're experiencing this. How is your elder son more generally? And how is he towards your younger child?

ToyRus he’s a very affectionate sweet boy. Albeit very very hyper and impulsive. He shows his younger brother lots of affection till but also very rough and tumble with him at the same time (which my youngest equally seems to love even though I always stop this).

Thanks for your response. Honestly I can’t stop crying.

I did just that tonight. I feel so heartbroken.

1. Stop leaving the children alone together. This protects your youngest from coming to harm from their sibling.
2. Stop leaving 6 year old with anyone (even dad for me personally) on the assumption that someone did this to them, until you find out where this idea came from.

6 is very young for a child to understand that this is not ok . At this age children don’t know about how this would be interpreted, because they are innocent little people .
I personally would just reinforce not to do this because sibling will get cold etc and not make it into a drama.

@LoftyDenimDeer wish I could give you a hug! I think speaking to NSPCC is a good idea to get their advice. And all of the above sounds very sensible. Just take one step at a time. Is there a friend or someone you can confide in?

this

And, yes, I agree with previous posters. Try not to jump to conclusions. At that age children are exploring boundaries, power dynamics etc. And if you don't feel able to talk to ppl about it in IRL I'm ashamed to say it but chat gpt can be immensely helpful!

This is great advice!

I agree with people saying keep the kids separate but I think as a priority you need to seek professional help as in tomorrow.

Speak the school and be absolutely honest with them about this.

I have to say I disagree. Especially with adhd in the mix. I think it’s within the realms of normal for a 6 year old boy to do silly things for no reason. Many of the little boys I teach do equally silly things. Because they’re 6 and it’s funny (to them). They don’t consider any implications or consequences. They push things, drop things, kick things, throw things. Grab each other, tackle each other, pinch, bite and smack each other. And yes, sometimes they pull each other’s clothes.
All behaviours which require intervention, educating and possibly consequences. Keep an eye on him. Try and talk to him. Discuss the PANTS stuff with him. But I’d be looking for more red flags before I panicked.

Thank you for your input. Out of interest are you a teacher? I don’t know what to think to be honest. I’ve tried talking to him again since and he just doesn’t seem to know what he thought it was a good idea or why he did it apart from his brother threw something at him. I have found it really hard to be my usual self with him this AM which breaks my heart.

It’s hard also because my husband seems to think i’m massively overreacting. I’ve got to break him to him that I won’t be going on our weekend away this weekend for the above reason. I’m not sure how to go about moving forward with this.

the NSPCC have a really good worksheet called PANTS, which is about teaching childxren about areas that are 'private' and not to be touched except by a parent/ medical professional. It might help to download this and talk to him about it.
ADHD makes impulse control very difficult- I also did a lot of weird inexplicable things as a child. But 6 is a good age to start this talk

This needs to be nipped in the bud asap.

ADHD aside he needs to know how serious this is and that we do not remove other people’s clothes ourselves especially in that manner.

If we tip toed around serious issues like this just because people had ADHD, autism etc the world would be chaos.

As for the previous poster saying this is just “boys behaviour” let’s stop saying boys will be boys and start saying boys will be held accountable for their behaviour.

@LoftyDenimDeer thing is, you have to mother both your children. Your little boy is only 6....I agree with others that he won't know what he's doing. I really would if you can try not to shame him or make him feel bad. This is something to really sensitively navigate through. I also wondered whether reading a book on consent might be helpful? I've just bought one for my three year old. Are you an anxious person? (I say this as an anxious person myself so no judgement!)

Realise that sounded like you shouldn't do anything - of course you should but I probably wouldn't get angry because he probably doesn't know that what he's doing is wrong? It might be confusing to him which night make it worse. The PANTS resource sounds excellent

Thank you. Yes I am a very anxious person. I also have OCD. So I don’t know if this is a factor in how i’m feeling too.

@LoftyDenimDeer right, it's a huge factor! I have OCD too so I understand how you're feeling. My hunch is you're understandably feeling anxious about this but your OCD has also taken a hold and made it a million times worse. You know with OCD you have to carry on things as normal - be 'antiOCD'. I think you need to take the practical steps as per above, but also try and shift out of this anxious state you're in (how do you do that? Exercise etc?), because I'm almost sure it's making this so much harder for you xxx

Yes I am a teacher. Children do stupid things all the time and they very rarely have any idea why they did them.
I have to say I partly agree with your husband. Continued crying and cancelling trips because a small child did something silly to his sibling?? In the absence of any other concerns this does feel like an overreaction.

Is he doing it because the toddler is too young to pull them up and it traps him in one place/makes him slower?
Could be a logical reason if its happening after hes taken a toy or thrown something and DS6 wants to keep the toddler away from him.

I wouldn't jump to "he hs been abused"
But I would consider it and review who he is in contact with

Re stopping his behaviour.
Imo "no don't do it" clearly isnt enough...

Toy removal / no tv / no sweets or treats / for remainder of day and following day dependent on when it happens.

I would be very firm on this.

Absolutely this. He's found a great way to piss his mum off and gain attention and also get back at his sibling - why would he stop?!

Try not to get upset, I used to whack my sister over the head when mum was out of the room,I didn't grow up to be a violent person.