Too soft on 8 year old

[Pullingmyhairout26]

Hi 👋🏻

I'm looking for a but if advice to help me parent my 8 year old son better.

Before I get into it I just want to say that he has had a challenging couple of years through no fault of his own which is why I think I've let it get this bad although these behaviours were present from a very young age.

I'm a single Mom and my son sees his Dad (overnight) regularly. He is an only child and has been raised around adults only.

So behaviours...he swears, shouts, doesn't pick up after himself, doesn't listen to clear instructions, strops and tantrums when he doesn't get his own way, is very rigid in his thinking and nothing I say can change his mind, obsessive, is extreamly disrespectful in the way he speaks to me and other people and is very controlling of me and what I can or can't do. He also argues constantly with his friends and doesn't have a 'best friend'.

On the plus side he sleeps well, can be loving, very funny, behaves in school, and will excel in things that interest him. He is behind his peers at school and always has been but he tries his best and consistently makes progress.

The thing I'm struggling with is consequences for his poor behaviour. The only things he really cares about are his bike, x box and tablet so I tend to confiscate these things when he is badly behaved. Even though taking these things away from him distresses him, he doesn't learn from it and the very next day will repeat the behaviour even though he risks losing one of his favourite things.

Does anyone have any advice on consequences for disrespectful behaviour that differ from the above?

Thanks for reading.

Hi, I have a few suggestions here. The first would be to make sure you are really consistent with your approach to giving warnings and then consequences, including giving thinking time. It’s often best to outline the choice they have to them (e.g. “You can continue to be unsafe with XYZ and I’ll have to take it away from you or you can use it safely and keep it”) and then give thinking time (“I’m going to give you 1 minute to make a decision”). The thinking time is vital as it means kids can cool off and start to think more logically about making a good decision rather than just responding defiantly out of habit. In terms of consequences themselves, the ones you have sound pretty good if applied effectively - I am also a big fan of logical consequences (I.e. the consequence is directly linked to the behaviour at hand). E.g. if inappropriate use of phone or refusal to come off tablet/xbox then he loses it for a few days, if he makes a big mess then everything else is out of bounds until he cleans it up, if he makes you late for something then he needs to spend time helping you with a task later. If he has experience adverse childhood experiences or any trauma, this might also inform how you respond - time-in can be very effective for kids with trauma (the opposite of a time out - having to spend time close to you for a period of time while he calms down), and consistency in following through is absolutely key

Op I really feel for you and for your little boy. Just to say the behaviours you describe are those of a little boy who struggles to regulate himself. He may see everything as a threat and goes into fight mode. This is REALLY normal for anybody who has been exposed to trauma, especially a child. There may also be shame there going on for him it he is struggling in school. I would look for a good trauma informed child practitioner in your area who can help him to learn to regulate and give you pointers to help him get there too. Nothing will get through to him, not boundaries or consequences until he can learn to understand his behaviour and regulate himself.
Our life experiences shape how our nervous system react to the world around us. Your little guy may need to heal from those earlier experiences. Look into trauma informed care. Wishing you both the best of luck.

What game is he playing in his Xbox and what is he using his tablet for?

If he won't pick up after himself, the he can't do x/y/z until it is done.
You can go for the indirect approach of needed. If he just drops a crisp packet I the table and walks off... Calm him back and say "where should that be?" Rather than going straight to a telling off. Give him the chance to correct the behaviour without being in trouble.
And praise hugely for the correct behaviour.

It's better than going in all guns blazing.

Sorry if it doesn't make sense..

So it's more like...let's pretend you started a new job and you completely forgot that a job needed doing (eg, putting the spanner back on a hook) ... Would you rather someone reminded you "oh the spanner!" And you look at it and think and then rectify the situation or would your boss be more effective by saying " you left the spanner on the table, I'm docking and hours pay!!!!".

And also.... I'd be tempted to ditch the tablet entirely, unless it's needed for homework, and then it's now only a homework tool. Lock it down.

As for the Xbox. Again limit the time to maybe a couple of hours at the weekend.

I'm going to go ahead and presume he's playing games that aren't age appropriate...like Fortnite or whatever... Rather than things like pet island or dream light valley or.slime rancher...

I’m going to say some elements of what you say (rigid thinking, obsessive, controlling) make me think a neurodivergent profile, which might influence how you tackle it.

Either way, I would suggest consequences that are immediate, related to the behaviour, and consistent. They don’t have to be “big” sanctions (in fact I think big punishments can be counterproductive), I think the consistency is most critical. So if he is shouting at you a calm “I don’t like talking to you when you are shouting at me, I will talk to you when you can speak to me calmly”, then just disengage.

I’d also be looking for any patterns around triggers (eg relationship to going to/coming home from school, changes to routine, screen time, exercise).

Sounds like you need to get parenting lessons before their behaviour escalates and the police become involved. Speak to the school to see what help they have available for your child.

I would probably stop taking things away from him and giving him more cuddles and time together instead. He sounds insecure if he's ordering you about. Is he actually happy seeing his dad so often? It sounds fair but what is actually better for your boy and how he wants to live?
Be firm, be consistent but don't make life harder for him if he's struggling by punishing him. At that age he only knows how to control world around him by playing up. Reassure him you love him even if he does things you don't like. But be clear you are telling him to stop.
See if you can find more things to do together that are special to just the 2 of you. Start reading a book together or have a silly game you always play before bed.
Good luck. I hope you find something that works for you both.

some of these are very similar to me ND 7 year old son. Have you ever thought ADHD/ASD?

My son is the sweetest, kind hearted boy
but something out his routine or a minor inconvenience is the end of the world! He shouts, screams, cries. We are his safe place and he acts up for us but school are on the ball and supporting him as he struggles in class too.

THIS!! Roblox, YouTube and Tablet have all been banned for my 7 yo. His behaviour has improved so much!

Sounds like autism with demand avoidant traits to me. I have an autistic 8yo and your son sounds similar.

Look at the PDA society website and also https://help4psychology.co.uk/blog/its-not-only-girls-who-can-mask/

Have a think about it, talk to teacher and SENCO at school. It's worth considering autism as a possibility because the parenting strategies are very very different.

Agree, he sounds autistic. Consequences and punishments won’t work, they’ll just continue to erode his self esteem.

I’d think about it less in terms of punishments for doing the wrong thing, and more in terms of how you equip him to do the right thing.

Part of that is sending very clear and consistent messages about expected behaviour and boundaries, but also in terms of creating a supportive environment, managing pressure and triggers.

Has he witnessed domestic abuse of you @Pullingmyhairout26?

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I have wondered about possible autism since he was tiny but didn't pursue anything as school haven't mentioned a thing, even when I've shared my concerns and outright asked them for their opinion. He was speech delayed which resolved very quickly once he started school thanks to work completed in school and activities they reccomened for at home.

He hasn't ever witnessed any domestic violence either in our home or any other home.

He is a highly anxious boy and I've developed strategies for helping him with this e.g warnings for changes in routine, casual chats about feelings etc. I find if he is questioned about anything he shuts down but is very good at opening up when in certain environments such as in the car where it's low pressure.

The controlling behaviour is present in all of his relationships but he is worse with me. He isn't as persistent with his Dad.

I would of course love to have him with me all of the time but it's really important for him to be with his Dad. They love each other and there's no safeguarding concerns there. He is with me 5 nights a week and with his Dad for 2.

I think I've got lost worrying about doing things wrong. He is due to see someone about his anxiety in the next few months and I'm hoping that if he is comfortable with the practitioner, he will show more of his true self and they may see my concerns around autism and could possible support a referral for an assessment. I'm worried about being too strict incase there is something underlying and then worried about not being strict enough and him becoming much worse as he gets older.

The x box and tablet is for fortnite and youtube. He plays it in the same room as me so I can monitor what's going on. I wouldn't say he spends lots of time on the Xbox but does on YouTube.

I think I need to toughen up when it comes to technology and stick with boundaries. He gets lots of love and attention and he knows he is loved and safe at both mine and his Dads house. I'll definitely try the 'time in' suggestion. Currently I ask him to leave the room when he is shouting and slamming and then when he's calmed down ask if he wants to have a cuddle. I don't tend to hold a grudge and carry on as normal once he's calmed down.

Thanks again for all of your replies. Much appreciated 😊

And don't some of those games have a chat feature where he could be picking up bad influences?

Highly anxious, controlling of his environment and people around him, rigid thinking etc are all asd traits. I honestly would speak to the senco at school directly rather than his teacher. My sons teacher persistently said he was "fine" the senco met him once and agreed with me, he's now diagnosed.

Even if they don't agree I would look at how to parent ND children and use some of that info to help you. For my son, punishment really does not work, especially illogical "you swore, now you can't have your bike" - it makes no sense to him, its just me being mean. We discuss what good behaviour looks like, we set rules, we reward for sticking to the rules and we apply logical consequence when he doesn't or can't (e.g. he's removed from the situation normally). I'd sit down and agree some family rules you both agree with, if he's rigid and an only child I suspect he finds it tricky to have different rules to the adults around him, so maybe you both agree it's a non swearing household, or you both agree no raised voices/shouting. There will be some things "him" specific, but discuss what is and isn't ok at his age. Write all your rules down with him, on a big sheet and stick them up in the house, agree consequences and agree rewards (think small and build up), we do a sticker or marble in a jar, ten is a Mars bar, 25 is a day trip/activity like the cinema. Make it visible.

Definitely monitor his screen time, again discuss this with him, explain the impact and appropriateness of these things. We have nothing other than a switch and it's 1 hour at the weekend. If he's rigid he needs to totally understand the rules, it needs to be totally consistent, and it needs to be written down and stuck to by both parents ideally. You cannot cave or move this boundary as it'll make him confused about what is and isn't required.

Develop a safe space for his "tantrums" personally I'd switch thinking on this and call it overwhelm. It'll help you empathise more. My son has his room, we got him an angry cushion he can throw and hit in his room that is specific for him. We agreed he can go to his room and we will let him unwind there, he has a weighted blanket he likes too. Speak to your son about what triggers the angry feelings, what helps him regain control (try breathing techniques on you tube together, candle breathing or finger breathing maybe). He needs tools to help him regulate his emotions and he needs to know what's starting the feelings (you could keep a little diary when it happens, what happened directly before, was the environment noisy, was the routine different, was it a transition period, who was around etc). Once you have triggers you can also build in mitigation to those triggers - plan the difficult situations in advance, provide quieter spaces, allow time for transitions etc etc. I think you're doing the right things, you just need to discuss and formalise them more and then stick to them and do them with him so he doesnt feel alone. Rather than a casual chat about feelings, buy the Worry monster book or similar and have proper discussions every day about his feelings, can he draw or colour his feelings today (every morning or evening). Discuss how when he is a bit older he needs to be able to understand how he feels and then work out how to handle them. I always say "feelings are the sea we are on but we sail our own boats". He needs to see that feelings roll in, and roll out, we accept what they are and we manage ourselves accordingly- you can roll model it, next time you're a bit cross "sorry ds, this flatpack has left me feeling really annoyed and frustrated because I can't do it and I feel daft as it should be easy, I'm going to make a cup of tea and sit down and have a minute of quiet to calm myself down before I try fixing it again" etc. Build it into both your lives.

It's really tricky, my son was hardest at 7ish, he's 10 now, rarely does he get overwhelmed and when he does he just takes himself to his bedroom before it gets to the stage of shouting/full blown anger. We do however, ensure his environment works for him, work out what he will find a challenge and discuss it beforehand and maintain consistency to help him. It works, you just have to stick at it.

He shouldn't be playing Fortnite, even under supervision. It's an awful game that's addictive and brings out aggression. I'm fairly certain it's a 12 rating too

Get him some age appropriate games like puzzle games or something...

And just uninstall YouTube.

I agree about Fortnite, far too young. My 8yo isn't allowed to play it.

And we uninstalled YouTube, too. He was just watching far too many random videos.

He's allowed to play age-appropriate games on his Nintendo Switch, and watch TV (child account on Netflix). We also have a tablet with apps he can play, things like TTRS.

He asked to play Roblox and I downloaded it, tried to work out the safety/privacy settings, did some more research and promptly decided to delete it.

He's allowed to play Minecraft though including online with family and friends (not strangers).

I agree about Fortnite and Youtube but given everything OP has said I don't think those are the root cause of behaviour issues here (though won't help).

I don't think you remove them as punishment, but as part of a discussion about healthy habits.

Agreed.

I thought this too. My youngest is likely autistic ( not assessed yet, his Dad is autistic, as was mine) and he will repeat behaviours that lead to consequences he dislikes. Difficulty linking action to consequence can be due to autism.

Hi - my little boy is on the ADHD pathway so I completely understand how difficult it can be with a 'challenging' child. I'm also a secondary teacher so have lots of practice dealing with challenging children. So my suggestions would be as follows:

1. Have a conversation about clear expectations first in a non confrontational way. I'd include dad in this too so that everyone is on the same page and there are no mixed messages.
2. Have a visual reminder of those expectations e.g. litter in the bin, plates in the kitchen, toys tidied etc. Whatever it is that you want. Try to avoid too many as it can be overwhelming. Again, same at dad's house.
3. Rewards and praise for doing the right thing. In my experience, this works SO much better than the telling off/ punishments. Try to 'catch him' doing the right thing and make sure you praise for it. You could even do a rewards chart if that works for him where he earns something at the end of the week etc. Same at dad's house.
4. There will be times that he makes mistakes/ shouts/ slams things etc so I agree with the above that consequences should be relevant, appropriate and not over the top e.g. you break a toy, unfortunately that goes in the bin because it's broken. You throw your tablet, it gets removed etc. You run away, you hold my hand. They are less general punishments than uncomfortable consequences. Same at dad's house.
5. Teach some coping strategies for times when he is angry/ upset e.g. my boy has a 'calm down' spot with books, music, fidget toys etc. You can also teach breathing techniques like 'hot chocolate' etc which can be helpful or have a pillow to shout into etc.

Good luck with everything!

Sorry, i haven't read any replies or updates.

Something that worked really well for me was rewarding instead of punishing. Advice given to me by a psycologist.

So at the start of the week start with nothing. No bike, tablet, tv etc. And as a reward for good behaviour, he gets some time with these things. Brings focus on the positives, rather than punishing the negatives.

We sat down and discussed this beforehand and it really worked. Brought positivity, rather than constant negitivity.

Thank you all for getting back to me. I'm going to take some ideas on board, especially the technology. I like the idea of explaining that it's for his wellbeing and offering appropriate choices instead.

I will pursue an assessment for possible autism. If he doesn't have autism then at least I can focus on other reasons for this behaviour, if he does then I know he can be offered support as he gets older, especially when he goes to secondary school.

Thanks again and to those who have also shared you experiences. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in having a complex little person...I'll be an expert by the time he is an adult!