help with my strong-willed, quick to anger, daughter

[stillnoideawhatimdoing]

Can anyone recommend books/podcasts/resources for parenting a chronically inflexible, strong-willed, hot-tempered almost 5 year old?

I've heard of the explosive child but many seem to suggest it's for slightly older kids and we are in the trenches now. It's not a new situation, she's been like it for at least two years, but having tried everything I can think of to help her I'm running out of steam. If everything is going her way she's the most considerate, charming, funny, helpful, reasonable little soul, but the second something is suggested that she doesn't want/like and watch out. So many things trigger her and everything I've tried seems to make the situation worse.

It's reached a point where the best we can do is try not to antagonise her, but tip-toeing around the youngest member of the household doesn't feel like the healthiest long-term solution.

Looking for any pearls of wisdom which might help us help her through this. If I spoke or acted out of turn as a kid my parents would either hit me or lock me in my room where I would feel terrible about myself and ended up self-harming and thinking badly about myself for decades. As an adult I had therapy and learned to process my anger so it's these techniques I've been trying to share with her. The difference is I hate feeling angry and wanted to change, she seems to frickin thrive on it.

Books I've tried so far:
Calmer, happier, easier parenting
How to talk so little kids will listen
Angry parent, angry child
The book you wish your parents had read

I promise she gets a lot of physical affection. I'm not particularly cuddly but she is and we offer/accept hugs a lot. Being in a house with 6 other adults (plus DH and I) this Christmas made me realise again just how important they are to her, she was genuinely moving from one adult to another like a pinball so she was on a lap or in someones arms 80%+ of the time.

Will absolutely continue the research, I love having something to read up on which I can try as I feel completely useless without a strategy.

Out of interest what would you do in the scenario where the space she's in isn't hers? She loves being in DS's room, they play in there together. However sometimes play turns to squabbles or DS has enough and wants to read, but she won't go. Feels extremely wrong to ask DS to leave his own room, not something I've been willing to do. Likewise when the struggle starts in the kitchen when someone is cooking or something.

I’m not saying you don’t give enough hugs but she needs hugs and more inportantly she needs stucture and routine.

In the situation you described I would still remove DS, explain that DD needs time and space to calm down andbhave some thing exciting or fun for him to do in the livingroom.

Gosh OP this sounds so like my daughter who is now 8. Following with interest. We've had play therapy which helped with a school avoidance problem we had. The therapist didn't seem to think she had ASD. Daughter didn't get dressed at all yesterday as she screamed at us every time we suggested it. We need to travel today so this will be fun!

How much training does the therapist have in autism? It’s a bold claim to make and one which a professional qualified in this area would be recluctant to make.

I wouldn’t remove DS from his room either.

I think I’d stop DD from going in there for a while. It’s a shame; but to protect his space, I’d encourage them to play in shared space.

Sounds like my granddaughter who is diagnosed PDA. That means any demand on her like going out , she hates leaving home too, sends her nervous system into fight or flight. Pervasive drive for autonomy means she has to feel in control. She masked at school for years so was fine there but at home continual meltdowns. Eventually she went into autistic burnout and is not in school.

If it’s not pda, which I have limited experience of, then the trick we used at home was having a code word. My DD was slightly younger than yours and was quick to anger then would break her heart once she had calmed down. So we came up with a plan that if I thought she was building up , I would say the name of a baddie from her favourite cartoon, and it would make her stop because she didn’t want to be the baddie. I was amazed how emotionally literate she was tbh , because we genuinely cane up with that plan together. And it totally worked. Might try reusing it now she’s having the odd teenage strop !

The thermals story is useful, and mirrors something I do with my kids often, but DH struggles with. So they’ll say they don’t need their coat / want to take a heavy bag / will be wearing non-waterproof trainers in the rain and I’ll say I think it’s a bad idea. If they insist I’ll say airily “ok, your choice but I don’t want to hear a word about wet cold feet / will not be carrying that bag / will not be coming back early if you’re cold without a coat. Up to you”. Often with the onus of judgement on them, they think about it and make a better decision.

You’ll hear a lot about PDA I expect but my neurotypical daughter was/ is just the same. Her New Year’s resolution is to stop getting so angry all the time. It’s a work in progress.

She’s still very little - all you can keep doing is modelling regulation and helping her regulate her mood in the moment. How does she see other people (esp you and her dad) handle their temper?

I would want a medical opinion personally. I would go gp or request hv appointment. Explain what’s happening (as in the worst days) and what you are doing and how long it’s being going on and ask for a referral to a paediatric consultant.
it’s fine to look online at PDA ASD ADHD but if it was a physical issue you would get medical advice should be same for neurological.
What’s her speech like? Is she able to talk and understand at an age related level?

Some advice from a parent of a child with ASD (even if it’s not ASD or similar the behaviour techniques will help)
You need to manage her environment, consistent set routine, consider a visual timetable so she knows what’s happening and when . Give her plenty of notice of changes/ new things. Regular eating/sleep pattern.
Make sure she gets chance to burn off energy and downtime everyday. If there’s something that soothes her (like say a iPad) have a set routine that she accesses it for say 30 min twice a day. (You could give extra in emergencies) Try to make the energy thing fun for her, something she enjoys so she is motivated to do it.
Dont expect more of her than she is capable of, you have to consider that the screaming/crying isn’t manipulation but overwhelm . If you know she struggles with waiting/turn taking Try to avoid those situations. But then u can do planned turn taking/waiting where you are in control of the situation to work on this gradually.
Try to understand why she wants to be at home, does she feel more in control? Is it sensory? Does she get over stimulated/ react to noise/ light/ people etc
Is she in nursery/ school if yes how is she there? Could you speak to senco?
Try to anticipate what is going to set her off and avoid it/distract her/ remove her from the situation, if you can get her anxiety down she might be more compliant day to day.
Do age appropriate work with her around understanding emotions and give her ways to manage her anger. - Squeezing a cushion, cuddling a teddy, deep breaths, a drink of water.

Currently you appear to be viewing this as a behaviour issue, it seems unlikely to me that that is the case. If it was just behaviour the techniques you have tried would have likely been successful and from what you say no one else in your family seem to struggle with anger so it’s not a role modelling issue . It reads more like it’s overwhelm and yes it can be solved be righting the situation (ie giving in) but it’s better to try to understand the overwhelm/ prevent it and support your dd. if you can understand and anticipate it you are in a better position to support her and try to teach her techniques to help her with it.
I like the spoon theory analogy if your dd has ten spoons she is on excellent form and able to cope. One spoon is meltdown, the aim is to get her as close to ten spoons as possible day to day and when she’s there work with her on the individual behaviours you want to improve. (Like waiting etc) if she is on a low spoons day accept that you are maintaining her and it’s not a day to work on things with her. (This is why you can end up feeling frustrated that she could manage xyz yesterday but can’t today it’s simply a case of where her resource level is at ) You can also consider that if she has what you know to be a draining day that you make the next day easier for her so she can replenish.

Best advice by miles is from the insta /facebook shorts from Casey at Peaceful Parenting. She has the most concise and clear way to describe the nervous system activation and how to calm it. Also the PDA Society has some wonderful online courses which changed our lives. She sounds v much like our daughter at that age.

One thing that has resonated is about creativity in how you ask. If I ask my DC to go and get ready, the stock response is a flat no (which will escalate etc the more I ask) if I make it a game and turn her into a special animal robot which involves some 'programming' (pressing some buttons on her back) then I say something silly like 'cheetah speed mode initiated' off she goes at full speed. It's hard to keep it fun all the time though.
And I remember reading about how overwhelming it can be for some children just having to get ready to leave the house for a walk...shoes,coats, gloves, hats, all different textures and sensory changes, then going from warm inside to cold outside, then the reverse when you get back in.
Also re: hugs I think that is a regulation/sensory thing a lot of the time for my DC. It is a whole body tight squeeze type hug. She seeks them when she is overwhelmed.
Other things that have worked are visual timetables, clear routines, some reduced expectations. Down-time. Limiting screen time (screen time is soothing for my DC when they are on it, but they are far more likely to have outbursts once they have come off it, so I set clear limits around that). Offering simple choices to foster a sense of autonomy.

Especially while she's still young, could you "fill up" her need for autonomy by making sure she plays/ reads things with lots of choices built in? Books and games like "You Choose" by Nick Sharratt or the Choose Your Own Adventure style books, perhaps. Time cuddling up reading together is almost always regulating, and might help key her nervous system down a bit.

I have no particular advice I just wanted to say (as someone who grew up with a sibling who had some similar traits) - please don't forget your 7yo when you're planning solutions.

Some of the solutions people have described sound very unfair to your son. Your son deserves to live in his home peacefully without having to give up his room, his toys, his personal space, all the time without a choice. He has the right to quiet peaceful enjoyment of his room.

It seems like the voguish solution to your dd's behaviour is to let her have her own way in everything to avoid a meltdown - that's OK if she's an only child and the parents choose to live like that - it's completely unfair on your son.

No one yet on this thread has suggested anything rewards-based. How is dd when you reward good behaviour? Does she respond well to star charts and the like?

The incident where the child gave her the kite to stop her screaming, and when your son let her in his room for the same reason - they strike me as very unfair on the kite owner and on your son. I would have stepped in.

Not quite the same but my older dc eats slowly and saves the best till last, and my son wolfs his food and whines at his sister for the good things on her plate. My dh used to praise her if she gave in and gave it to him "so kind!" but I put a stop to it. No. It's not the older sibling's responsibility to give in to their sibling's tantrums. You'll raise a people-pleaser who doesn't prioritise themselves. Fairness is more important to teach than kindness, in my view.

Your son matters too. Fight his corner.

If it’s PDA then rewards won’t work. The household will be more peaceful if Low Demand Parenting is accessed. We have three children, the oldest is PDA, and we explain to the younger siblings about her nervous system and why we parent her differently. They understand. The household is generally based around keeping her nervous system calm and it works. Also as a child matures and gets more understanding of what they can and can’t do, and more autonomy generally over their own life, the symptoms can dissipate. Five is a difficult age as you’re told what to do all day at school and then the mask collapses at home in your safe space.

well developed sense of justice for sure

I don't agree with this. Or if she does have a sense of justice, you're undermining it by letting her have other people's things and scream at them.

I get that everyone says the "only" way to deal with PDA is to have no boundaries or expectations but it is not fair or just when there are consequences on the sibling. Your son can't make that choice for himself.

My younger DD (6) is similar. I agree with the above post about not forgetting the needs of the older child, I also have another daughter 3 years older and DD2 drives her crazy sometimes too. My younger sister was also similar growing up and she got so much of the attention (she is fine now btw!).

Similar to another poster I did play therapy with her and the therapist didn’t think it was neurodivergence although wasn’t certain on this. She did enjoy the play therapy (I stayed with her) but I don’t think it helped to be honest. I hate the cycle of this because she thinks that we love her older sister more, which breaks my heart. She acts up, then gets told off, feels bad about herself… the play therapist didn’t say she needs co-regulation which I do try to do with her. DH is a bit more on the “she needs discipline” and shouts at her which just makes things worse and means I need to spend the next while calming her down.

My feeling is that it’s not PDA etc, and that it’s just part of her personality and she will calm down with age. I may be wrong though. She definitely masks something at school because usually the worst part of my day is trying to get her home from school while she’s losing her shit. She has at times thrown her bike/ scooter into the road and threatened to eat non edible berries from a hedge. She constantly tells me I don’t love her which she knows winds me up.

Anyway sorry, not much advice! I have noticed that she has got better at calming down and apologising more quickly recently. I think it’s really important not to shame them after and just move on.

Fair. This is where multi faceted humanity gets complex in an online forum. I was thinking about how readily and passionately she stands up for others if she perceives something to be unfair. For example when her brother was winding her up one day and I got frustrated with him and she turned on me with a 'don't talk to my brother like that!'.

We absolutely do encourage DS to have boundaries etc. For example with the room thing, I removed her once he'd asked and said 'this is DS's room and it's up to him if he wants space here to himself'. It was when I was in the bathroom that he went in and relented/let her in. I often speak with him about how his boundaries are fine to uphold. I'm a people pleaser as @MumoftwoNC mentioned and very keen to avoid anyone following the same path. Likewise with the kite. I'd said 'I think with this behaviour there shouldn't be any turn on the kite', then we were all running around on the beach (unless kite flying or being DD) and in that time the child had taken the kite to DD and offered it to her independently. He wasn't encouraged or coerced into it.

Look up PDA. Forget rewards and consequences, work on remaining connected and close to the her ensure a close bond. Show her unconditional acts of love. Look at connected parenting. https://amzn.eu/d/ieyfHtw the book is pretty basic and quick to read. Look up non violent resistance a guy called Al Coates is good.

@MumoftwoNC the idea of parenting a pda child isn’t to have no boundaries or no expectations. It’s more about parenting differently - it’s not about the parent controlling the child, instead it’s about a high level of connection between parent and child, ensuring nervous system safety and a lot of co regulation and a trauma informed approach. We have to be exceptional parents to do it well.

The more you write the more she sounds like my adhd daughter!

the parenting differently does look to others like you are giving in etc but it’s much more complex than that

i know you don’t want to consider ND but the earlier you get a diagnosis and know what you are dealing with the better it will be

Read ops post. She's five ... doubt she's gone through puberty.

Re read how you contradict yourself with what you are doing and what you say you do. Too much talking, too many choices, stop arguing with her, she’s five and you’re adults.

My DD1 was like this when she was small (and things like PDA weren’t mentioned or hadn’t been discovered then). I’m afraid we used to take the no nonsense approach, and bundle her into her clothes when she didn’t want to get dressed, carry her to the car, strap her in and sit with her to make sure she didn’t get out (she could undo the belt and get out of the car seat age 2). Because we had another child, things needed to get done - work, shopping etc, going to school. We used to turn up the music to drown out the sounds of her screaming, and one of us used to sit with her in her room while she screamed, to make sure she didn’t hurt herself. She would often pull all of the toys out of the cupboard and throw them out of the room as well - we made her put them back, which she didn’t enjoy. There were no good consequences for bad behaviour, but we did reward her if she got ready for school on her own, sat nicely to eat lunch etc. Her behaviour was better at school, but not 100%, and the teacher used to sit her on her own in the book corner until she had calmed down. I wonder if we would have done anything differently these days?

This sounds very much like my dd. She is now 11 and waiting for ASD/ADHD assessment. I’m not sure if PDA is in the mix for her. We read the books, tried the techniques but not a lot worked, or worked consistently. It’s not what you want to hear, but time has made the most difference I think, as she gradually got better and less explosive as she got older. I remember when she was about 9 saying to DH that she now seemed to be more like what a lot of people’s 6/7 year olds were like.
DD was also pretty good at school - not perfect by any means but definitely not on their radar as potentially being ND. She is very clear that school and home are different and that you behave differently in each place and that home is where she can be herself. So perhaps yours feels a bit like that too. We have the book ‘Colour Monster’ which is about feelings, dd likes that. It’s quite sweet.
Sorry not much practical advice in there but some solidarity!